Stick Deadzone

[Shein]

Not sure if this is a glitch, the way the aircraft is in real life, or a quirk of the FBW but the stick seems to have a pretty large deadzone which makes lining up shots, formation flying, and A2A refueling especially maddening.

 

Checked with the Right Ctrl + Enter, my stick is detecting even the most minute movements. However aircraft just doesn't respond to tiny deflections.

[Wags]

Hi,

 

Sorry, I'm not unable to reproduce this. The stick in the F-16 is based on the force applied and this is best realized when using a force stick like the Realsimulator FSSB. Whe then have to translate the force level to a throw distance level for traditional sticks to match.

 

A stick with a highler level of precision might help you.

 

Thanks

[Shein]

Watch this track, ensure that the CTRL + Enter is on (track has me turn it on) and you can see me get almost a full diamond of stick out of the cross with no movement in aircraft.

Friend who has Virpil also has the same issue

 

EDIT: modifying curves fixes the issue; problem being IRL viper has short stick and I'm flying with a long extension. Curve of -45 feels good for me, friend like -30. Now she flies with light touch like the hornet. Thanks wags!

StickDeflection.trk

Edited October 4, 2019 by Shein
more info

[hughlb]

Solution here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251003

[MAXsenna]

Not sure if this is a glitch, the way the aircraft is in real life, or a quirk of the FBW but the stick seems to have a pretty large deadzone which makes lining up shots, formation flying, and A2A refueling especially maddening.

 

Checked with the Right Ctrl + Enter, my stick is detecting even the most minute movements. However aircraft just doesn't respond to tiny deflections.

Agree. It feels very sluggish. I read Wag's comment below, and I'll try up the sensitivity as I hope they're not expecting us to spend a thousand dollars in hardware to play a 67 dollar DLC.

 

Anyway thanks ED, it's great and I know it'll just be better as you finish it.

I'm having a lot of fun here in Norway 04:46 in the morning, won't see the bed for a couple of days that's for sure!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[rrohde]

Specifically for the Viper I use a side-mounted VKB Gunfighter MK.II w/ SCG grip - see photo. I've added a #50 spring for pitch, and a #40 spring for roll, and that gives me the heaviness for how I interpret the Viper's stick to feel - short of a force-sensing base. I don't seem to experience any deadzone issue, as the FBW PFM feels snappy enough to me.

 

 

I also have a center-mounted Gunfighter w/ MCG grip and stick extension, but I don't even think of using it for the Viper, as only a short throw stick would feel right with this module.

[MAXsenna]

Specifically for the Viper I use a side-mounted VKB Gunfighter MK.II w/ SCG grip - see photo. I've added a #50 spring for pitch, and a #40 spring for roll, and that gives me the heaviness for how I interpret the Viper's stick to feel - short of a force-sensing base. I don't seem to experience any deadzone issue, as the FBW PFM feels snappy enough to me.

 

 

I also have a center-mounted Gunfighter w/ MCG grip and stick extension, but I don't even think of using it for the Viper, as only a short throw stick would feel right with this module.

Nah. Deadzone is wrong expression. I've got a fiddle around some more. It's the settings for sure. One 360 roll is 5 seconds.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[flashben]

I wish we could have input options like the F5 has in the special tab in options for linear control or the default special forced transducer stick input behavior. I'm too poor to enjoy a FSSB stick.

[CobaltUK]

Hi,

 

Sorry, I'm not unable to reproduce this. The stick in the F-16 is based on the force applied and this is best realized when using a force stick like the Realsimulator FSSB. Whe then have to translate the force level to a throw distance level for traditional sticks to match.

 

A stick with a highler level of precision might help you.

 

Thanks

 

I've only just read this reply but it seems a very poorly considered one when the OP claimed the jet simply did not respond to actual input from stick. That sounds less like a lack stick sensitivity and more like lack of detection by code sensitivity.

Yes and as others said spending mega bucks just to have reasonable control is bonkers.

[Bear21]

It's force in both cases

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, I'm not unable to reproduce this. The stick in the F-16 is based on the force applied and this is best realized when using a force stick like the Realsimulator FSSB. Whe then have to translate the force level to a throw distance level for traditional sticks to match.

 

A stick with a highler level of precision might help you.

 

Thanks

 

The F16 stick has force transducers working against a sprung stick with a small displacement (the initial idea of force only stick didn't work for the pilots). So the signal to the FLCS in pitch/roll is a decoded amplitude of the force level.

 

The displacement stick has movement transducers working with a sprung stick with a larger displacement. The signal to the FLCS in pitch/roll is a decoded amplitude of the force level against the displacement springs.

 

In both cases the input to the FLCS is how much force the pilot applies, ie no difference. The difference is in the slope of force versus amplitude of the signal (derivative force/digits to FLCS). Presicion doesn't come into the equation. The gain in the force vs digits to FLCS does (it's all about this derivative).

 

The bottom line is an FFSB has a higher derivative than a displacement stick, no other difference in this case.

 

ED decodes what stick the player is using. As the gain: "force vs exported amplitude" is not exposed (other than by making a custom curve or playing with the value for X saturation. The curve parameter does not set a linear gain change) it would be for ED to set this gain dependent of a used stick, to mimic an F16 stick as a base setting. Then the player can fine-tune with the "tune axis" as he likes.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Bear21

[Donut]

So are traditional sticks like the Warthog not compatible or at the least, not ideal for use with the F-16 then?

[Deano87]

I fly with an FSSB R3 and it feels great out of the box. When I’ve flown it using a normal stick I have used a little negative curve to make it a bit more sensitive around centre, but it still flies ok.

[Bear21]

Fiddle with the X saturation

 

So are traditional sticks like the Warthog not compatible or at the least, not ideal for use with the F-16 then?

 

It should be fine, just put the Saturation X at 60 to 70 for roll and pitch in Axis and you will have a responsive Viper. This is a more general fix for the difference in axis gain for FFSB and displacement stick than changing the Curvature (this you can still change to fine-tune around zero stick later).

[Deano87]

It should be fine, just put the Saturation X at 60 to 70 for roll and pitch in Axis and you will have a responsive Viper. This is a more general fix for the difference in axis gain for FFSB and displacement stick than changing the Curvature (this you can still change to fine-tune around zero stick later).

 

I not sure why you'd want to adjust the saturation, using negative curve allows you to have more responsive controls but while still using all the available IRL stick movement. Using your method you're basically throwing away a bunch of your available stick movement.

[Bear21]

I not sure why you'd want to adjust the saturation, using negative curve allows you to have more responsive controls but while still using all the available IRL stick movement. Using your method you're basically throwing away a bunch of your available stick movement.

 

That is the point. You are getting your displacement stick to give more Y deflection (pitch or roll amplitude to the FLCS) per unit X (force), ie you are increasing the gain of the pitch and roll axis just like an FSSB does. And there is only 100% Y to be had, hence you have to reach it earlier, otherwise you haven't got a higher axis gain.

 

But everyone to his liking, use X Saturation or Curvature or both. X saturation is taking your stick closer to an F16 stick in behavior, negative Curvature gives you the high gain around zero but less at the end. Both methods give you 100% Y = full rudder authority, the former with a shorter throw, the second with a longer throw with a non-linear curve giving you an F16 gain at the start of the throw and a lower gain at the end. Both are better than the base setting.

[Deano87]

Fair enough. It would feel very odd to me for the aircraft to be at maximum deflection and for me to still have remaining IRL stick movment. The stick forces are so low on displacement sticks that I prefer negative curve so I just get a more linear response from the aircraft throughout all of my available IRL stick movement.

 

But each to their own.

[Bear21]

Delete deadzone in Virpil manager as well

 

To the above we can add Virpil gimbal users shall put the pitch and roll axis deadzone to zero (factory setting is 2 units) to get an immediate response from the aircraft.

 

It doesn't affect the pitch and roll behavior (like a jerky neutral stick), the windows output is stable despite bit flicking of the physical axis sensors.