Anyone got a simpit and Rift S?

[TripRodriguez]

Hey guys, I'm too busy to do much with the sim currently but still have lots of things rolling around in my head.

 

If anyone has Rift S and a cockpit I'd appreciate it if you'd do a little test for me... or maybe this is something that you already thought of and started using...

 

I'm HF Autistic so my hand eye coordination is pretty poor to begin with. Put a VR HMD on my face and it's god awful which means fumbling around trying to find a switch that is right in front of my face even when the real life switch is aligned precisely with the VR one because I can't see where my hand is relative to it. This kills my immersion and I've been looking for a really good solution for a couple years now.

 

The Rift S "Passthrough Plus" looks like a possible solution.. here is what I have in mind. Set up your Oculus Guardian boundary so it's maybe halfway between your face and your panels. To see the real life cockpit, lean forward until your Passthrough Plus kicks in and you can now see all your switches and such. The idea basically is just to lean forward for just a moment to get the passthrough and put your hand on the control then go back into the VR view to see your instruments etc.

 

I think this should work, the only problem might be the holodeck boundary popping up. Can you reduce it's opacity or make it invisible but still have it trigger the passthrough camera mode?

 

I think once the Quest PC link comes out I'm going to order one and see if I can make it work for me but I'm dying to know if this is a good idea. The passthrough camera mode on my Index is beyond awful, totally useless.

 

Due to planned changes to my simulator (I intend to build a nice G-seat) I think I'll be able to set it up to work well with a base station free VR system which hasn't been an option due to the large range of motion of my sim. I'm almost tempted to try a Rift S, but between the fact that I know from DK2 that my IPD of 67.5 will cause eye strain without a physical IPD adjustment, and because Quest is getting hand tracking which I'm hoping for good DCS implementation of, and Oculus looks like they might be intentionally holding out on giving Rift S that feature to boost Quest sales vs Rift S sales so think I should hold out and try a tethered Quest first. If word comes down that they are going to enable the hand tracking on Rift S maybe I'll buy both, test for a week or so and return whichever one I decide is inferior for my simulator purposes.

 

Thanks for any help, and I'd very much welcome any conversation on this topic.

 

Trip

[Battis]

Genious idea! I have not really used the cameras as they tend to eat into available FPS. Don’t know how it is specifically with RS as it uses the cameras for tracking regardless. I had a set for a short while but didn’t like the fov. Otherwice, nice hmd!

[TripRodriguez]

I see you are rocking the Pimax 5K+ Battis. I'm sure if I got a Pimax wide FOV I wouldn't be able to go back either. I think that if Pimax added good controller free hand tracking I'd make the jump. I've come very, very close several times as it is.

 

There are so many factors involved in my choosing what VR system to use. For the past couple years with my motion sim setup using Lighthouse has been mandatory for head tracking to work properly so I was limited to Lighthouse based VR sets which I don't mind because I think Lighthouse tracking is super easy to set up and ultra accurate.

 

Now I'm looking at making changes that will kinda reverse the situation and make HMD's with no base stations work better for my rig.

 

In a way I wouldn't mind going back to Oculus (though I'm ashamed to admit it) because it would give me back trouble-free access to Oculus exclusive content much of which is among the best VR content there is. I would feel like a filthy traitor though, because I totally disapprove of Oculus trying to force people to buy their HMD's by making so many games exclusive.

 

I'm prepared to rationalize myself into it though! I can just keep repeating in my head to forget about Facebook's involvement and consider myself a customer of John Carmack if I go back to Oculus. =P

[metalnwood]

I don't use the passthrough, I found it useful to fumble in a room but not sure how well it would work for finding switches. I moved to an index so I cant hop in it to see.

 

 

What I have found works well in VR is well placed switches that accommodate a good muscle memory. This means, at least for me, not having a large array of switches that I have to feel around to get the right one.

 

 

The layout will look nothing like a traditional pit but the idea was to put them where I could reach for them as easily as for my mouse without looking.

 

 

I do racing and flying and I have found that with my warthog I dont need to remove the steering wheel as there is enough clearance to keep them both there.

 

 

Whats handy as far as VR is that because it is so close to the sitck and in a natural position I can put my hand on the wheel and once indexed on the wheel many buttons can be reached by muscle memory again.

 

 

So while I don't suggest you run out and buy a wheel with lots of buttons, the take away IMO is having the buttons such that you can easily reach to something you can index off . The wheel is just a good example of something you can reach for, put your hand in the right place and know where the buttons are from there.

[TripRodriguez]

I don't use the passthrough, I found it useful to fumble in a room but not sure how well it would work for finding switches. I moved to an index so I cant hop in it to see.

 

 

What I have found works well in VR is well placed switches that accommodate a good muscle memory. This means, at least for me, not having a large array of switches that I have to feel around to get the right one.

 

 

 

Yes that's the clearly viable option. This thread is 100% about dealing with full "replica" sim cockpits though.

 

By the way, when you tried the Oculus Passthrough was it Rift S "passthrough plus" with the proper 3D stereoscopic view? This was a patch that came out some time after Rift S launch. The reason I'd like this tested is "passthrough plus" is apparently light years ahead of the other passthrough systems with the possible exception of Vive Pro "flashlight" mode which I never got to try.

[metalnwood]

Oh, sorry, so many types of VR simpits about I wasn't clear we were talking about full replicas. Carry on :)

 

 

Edit, what I might experiment with along the lines of what you are thinking is to attach a small HD webcam to the rift and use some VR overlay software to bring the webcam feed up in VR. More or less the same as the oculus passthrough but without the lag and much better picture. Alternative could be to mount it beside your head and not on the rift but it may not be so natural guiding your hand to the switches.

Edited October 5, 2019 by metalnwood

[TripRodriguez]

Oh, sorry, so many types of VR simpits about I wasn't clear we were talking about full replicas. Carry on :)

 

 

Edit, what I might experiment with along the lines of what you are thinking is to attach a small HD webcam to the rift and use some VR overlay software to bring the webcam feed up in VR. More or less the same as the oculus passthrough but without the lag and much better picture. Alternative could be to mount it beside your head and not on the rift but it may not be so natural guiding your hand to the switches.

 

I checked out that route, it's a no-go. There's not enough bandwidth available for a decent webcam video feed. Also, it would require a super wide angle webcam.

[TripRodriguez]

Just a quick update. I was able to do a little test of Passthrough plus and this concept is definitely viable.

 

Of course if we could use Quest hand tracking to draw VR hands that would be even better but we have every reason to believe that even if ED does implement the Quest hand tracking feature (which they absolutely positively SHOULD as it's perfect for cockpit use) we will probably have issues with the VR software activating switches and knobs through it's capabilities while we are trying to operate real life switches and knobs.

 

So that means that the method I described here is the more viable one. I tested it, and it works. There is a problem though. The passthrough doesn't start coming on until you've passed through the actual boundary and there's no way to make the boundary invisible. This means either you have to lean forward pretty far, or you will be seeing the holodeck grid continously while flying which would royally suck. Hell it's bad enough that you'll see the grid when you reach for controls. That bit will probably only be really bad in low light conditions. For me this may be a much bigger problem since I'm strapped into a four point harness while flying. I might be able to do a quick release kinda thing though. Depending on how things work out I might be putting this into practice and if I do I'll certainly post about it and probably do a youtube video.

 

Quick disclaimer, I tested this with a Quest so I was not able to do it with DCS running on the HMD. I did it with a Quest game running while sitting in my cockpit just to get proof of concept.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TripRodriguez

[Fri13]

I just tested this.

 

With Rift S you can use the "Passthrough +" feature (it had this from the start) in such way that you disable the Guardian "wall" effect so when your controller or HMD crosses the Guardian border, the wall doesn't come visible (the perimeter will be visible, but it is below you so you don't see it).

 

- Then you need to draw the Guardian border so it is just slightly front of your head, so you need to lean little forward to cross it with HMD.

 

- Set the sensitivity of the Controllers and HMD to minimum. (This might be unnecessary)

 

- And now enable the bottom feature "Use Passthrough when HMD cross the border" or something like that at the bottom of the settings.

 

This way when you fly, you do not get the Guardian or anything front of you, but once you lean forward so HMD cross the Guardian, you are shown the environment where you are through the camera. The DCS doesn't pause (I can't be sure about other games, but if I remember correctly, those should) when you do so.

 

Edit: This needs to be done in the HMD settings, not the Desktop Application settings. So you can draw the new Guardian, disable the wall and so on.

[frogger]

i plan to implement my leap motion with the currently in development software by a forum member. if he can disable the functions and just have the hands visible i hope my m2000 pit is accurate enough that if i put my hand in a real world location the visible hand will be the same in the virtual location. probably wont be flying for at least 6 weeks due to an injury though so it has some waiting time to test

[TripRodriguez]

I just tested this.

 

With Rift S you can use the "Passthrough +" feature (it had this from the start)

 

I thought the passthrough was non-stereo at launch on both HMD's, my mistake apparently that only applied to Quest.

 

All the rest is fantastic info and sounds promising, thanks!

[TripRodriguez]

i plan to implement my leap motion with the currently in development software by a forum member. if he can disable the functions and just have the hands visible i hope my m2000 pit is accurate enough that if i put my hand in a real world location the visible hand will be the same in the virtual location. probably wont be flying for at least 6 weeks due to an injury though so it has some waiting time to test

That sounds like exactly what I've been asking for! I hope it can support vive trackers in addition to Leap Motion though, trackers definitely have 1:1 tracking. Even better the upcoming Quest hand tracking which I was able to semi-verify will be 1:1. I also tested with my Leap motion and isn't 1:1 but the dev may be able to correct it.

 

Do you have a link? This is super exciting.