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Polychop Simulations OH-58D Kiowa


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14 hours ago, WildWeasel303 said:

Seeing some new Kiowa footage in the new ED video is encouraging, even if it's still a ways out.

I am missing out big time but where is it?

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We believe that 2023 will be a truly exciting year for all, with the introduction of eagerly awaited modules like the DCS: F-4E by Heatblur, DCS: F-15E by RAZBAM, DCS: OH-58D Kiowa Warrior by Polychop, DCS: F4U-1D Corsair by Magnitude 3, DCS: C-130J by the Airplane Simulation Company, new Mirage F1 versions by Aerges, DCS: Normandy 2.0 map by Ugra Media, the DCS: Sinai Map by OnReTech, and more! Please don’t miss to watch our 2023 AND BEYOND VIDEO!

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It's never a guarantee but they're planning on Kiowa in 2023.

I didn't think the C130 would be this soon, I guess it was a fair way along before they announced it.


Edited by Scott-S6
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@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants and anyone else wondering about the KW with respect to the DCS World / 2023 and Beyond video:

 

0:43 Close up of instruments

3:00 Low flying, in cockpit.  Note the M4s up on the dash and the gray water bottle on the right

3:09 Tight view of external fly past.

4:19 "Go-Pro" style view, firing 70mm rockets from starboard side

 

Also, I'm not sure what we're seeing at 3:06.  There's night vision, a laser, and automatic fire against a technical.

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4 hours ago, Tengu said:

 

Also, I'm not sure what we're seeing at 3:06.  There's night vision, a laser, and automatic fire against a technical.

I think it's Kiowa shooting it's .50cal BMG on one pylon, with the laser as an aiming aid that can be used with NVG's... but that's just a guess. Kinda straffing, a bit like a WW2 fighter doing a run on ground targets, but from a light helo!

 

Considering how often the Kiowa appears in this particular video, I'm thinking it will be released sometime in 2023. I hope!

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12 hours ago, Rick50 said:

I think it's Kiowa shooting it's .50cal BMG on one pylon, with the laser as an aiming aid that can be used with NVG's... but that's just a guess. Kinda straffing, a bit like a WW2 fighter doing a run on ground targets, but from a light helo!

 

Considering how often the Kiowa appears in this particular video, I'm thinking it will be released sometime in 2023. I hope!

It is a Kiowa shooting. The .50 cal can only be used on the left pylon. There is a laser that can be boresited to the gun for use with NVGs. The button in the cockpit can be seen in this picture. 

 

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Edited by Coota0
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Coota0 thanks for the info!!  

Recently in the Apache forum (DCS Longbow Apache) there was talk about how during the sandbox wars, Apaches suddenly got new IR lasers attached to the 30mm cannon, apparently to allow the Apache crews to "indicate" items of interest to anyone with NVG's, like forward observers, spec ops, armored or infantry, or even other aircraft. This all confused me because up to that point I thought the laser designators used for LGB's and Hellfires were able to be seen using NVG's but apparently not! Thus, with real tactical situations occuring so incredbily often, a quick fix solution was bound to appear.

 

I'm guessing this is a very similar or the same laser type, and can't be used for Hellfire or LGB ordnance, but is great for NVG use?

 


Edited by Rick50
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the laser used in the Apache's targeting system is basically the same laser you would use in a remote control for your old school television. Dont remember where I read it, you could change the channel of the tv using the laser, but not sure how true that is.


Edited by Hammer1-1

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53 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

Recently in the Apache forum (DCS Longbow Apache) there was talk about how during the sandbox wars, Apaches suddenly got new IR lasers attached to the 30mm cannon, apparently to allow the Apache crews to "indicate" items of interest to anyone with NVG's, like forward observers, spec ops, armored or infantry, or even other aircraft. This all confused me because up to that point I thought the laser designators used for LGB's and Hellfires were able to be seen using NVG's but apparently not! Thus, with real tactical situations occuring so incredbily often, a quick fix solution was bound to appear.

I'm guessing this is a very similar or the same laser type, and can't be used for Hellfire or LGB ordnance, but is great for NVG use?

Its a difference in frequencies of light. Lasers in the IR spectrum are visible with night vision devices. You can see that in the video. KW has the mast-mounted sight that carries the laser target designator. Those type of lasers emit a coded pulsing (aka pulse repetition frequency or PRF) invisible (visible only to specific equipment with the exact same settings) laser energy, that is matched to the seeker's settings (laser seeker on bomb/missile or laser spot tracker with another entity). They are coded so missiles and bombs don't get confused as to where their target is, when multiple people are using said technology or some residual/ambient light happens to be in the same spectrum in close proximity to target(s). 

They're on a different light spectrum in order to mask their purpose. Laser-guided weapons and the associated PRF lasers are newer technology compared to military technology dabbling in the IR spectrum. Tanks, helicopters, etc have sensors nowadays to understand and give warning to the crew when they're being lased at. So back in the 60s and 70s when semi-active laser (SAL) homing was introduced, it was done so to work in a spectrum of light that was unfamiliar to fielded (and soon-to-be fielded) sensors and countermeasures and at the same time was reliable enough to guide weapons on target. Significant limitation of any light/laser technology is that you have to "see" the target in the light spectrum. Most likely if you can't see it with your eyes, most likely the laser seeker also can't see the laser energy.

There's also a different invisible laser guidance technology called line-of-sight laser beam-riding (LOSBR), which is what the Vikhr missiles in the Ka-50 and Su-25T use. In this case the laser seeker is in the butt of the weapon and it tries to center itself on the laser beam that you're emitting. This allows for use of less powerful, thus harder to detect laser designators, but the issue with those are that you can't separate the launcher from the laser i.e. I lase or paint (to use the 90s term :D) the target and you fire the missile. Laser beam-riding doesn't allow for this, while SALH does.

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1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the laser used in the Apache's targeting system is basically the same laser you would use in a remote control for your old school television. Dont remember where I read it, you could change the channel of the tv using the laser, but not sure how true that is.

 

afaik, remote controls don't use a laser but an IR LED. Hence, you typically see a small bulb at the top, rather than a small laser dot.

If the TV's sensors is responsive in the laser's wavelength, then it would of course still be true. 😉

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2 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the laser used in the Apache's targeting system is basically the same laser you would use in a remote control for your old school television. Dont remember where I read it, you could change the channel of the tv using the laser, but not sure how true that is.

 

Rather not true, because TV sets use infrared transmitters and receivers, not lasers... Why not lasers? Because you wouldn't be able to hit the receiver with the remote...

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2 hours ago, adirtynurse said:

Its a difference in frequencies of light. Lasers in the IR spectrum are visible with night vision devices. You can see that in the video. KW has the mast-mounted sight that carries the laser target designator. Those type of lasers emit a coded pulsing (aka pulse repetition frequency or PRF) invisible (visible only to specific equipment with the exact same settings) laser energy, that is matched to the seeker's settings (laser seeker on bomb/missile or laser spot tracker with another entity). They are coded so missiles and bombs don't get confused as to where their target is, when multiple people are using said technology or some residual/ambient light happens to be in the same spectrum in close proximity to target(s). 

They're on a different light spectrum in order to mask their purpose. Laser-guided weapons and the associated PRF lasers are newer technology compared to military technology dabbling in the IR spectrum. Tanks, helicopters, etc have sensors nowadays to understand and give warning to the crew when they're being lased at. So back in the 60s and 70s when semi-active laser (SAL) homing was introduced, it was done so to work in a spectrum of light that was unfamiliar to fielded (and soon-to-be fielded) sensors and countermeasures and at the same time was reliable enough to guide weapons on target. Significant limitation of any light/laser technology is that you have to "see" the target in the light spectrum. Most likely if you can't see it with your eyes, most likely the laser seeker also can't see the laser energy.

There's also a different invisible laser guidance technology called line-of-sight laser beam-riding (LOSBR), which is what the Vikhr missiles in the Ka-50 and Su-25T use. In this case the laser seeker is in the butt of the weapon and it tries to center itself on the laser beam that you're emitting. This allows for use of less powerful, thus harder to detect laser designators, but the issue with those are that you can't separate the launcher from the laser i.e. I lase or paint (to use the 90s term :D) the target and you fire the missile. Laser beam-riding doesn't allow for this, while SALH does.

There is no way to code the "visibility" of a laser. A laser is either visible in the infrared or not, depending on the wavelength at which it operates.
A coded laser beam is coded information in the beam. still everyone can see it - if it is supposed to be visible in IR - but the information sent in the beam has its own code that the receiver in the missile or other device identifies. It has absolutely nothing to do with visibility or not the beam. The same coded beam may be visible to the naked eye, infrared, or not visible at all.

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6 hours ago, Nahen said:

Rather not true, because TV sets use infrared transmitters and receivers, not lasers... Why not lasers? Because you wouldn't be able to hit the receiver with the remote...

Even IR RX/TX is/was sometimes a pain to hit the receiver with the remote.

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10 hours ago, Nahen said:

Rather not true, because TV sets use infrared transmitters and receivers, not lasers... Why not lasers? Because you wouldn't be able to hit the receiver with the remote...

Im willing to bet its the same wavelength.

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2 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Im willing to bet its the same wavelength.

The IR wavelength in the remote controls is the so-called "near infrared" average wavelength in the LEDs in the IR remote controls is about 900 nm.
"Laser" in the invisible band, e.g. ultraviolet from 10 to 400 nm, so the differences can be quite large ... Of course you can force whatever you want use...

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2 hours ago, Nahen said:

The IR wavelength in the remote controls is the so-called "near infrared" average wavelength in the LEDs in the IR remote controls is about 900 nm.
"Laser" in the invisible band, e.g. ultraviolet from 10 to 400 nm, so the differences can be quite large ... Of course you can force whatever you want use...

IR and UV are at different ends of the spectrum and sandwiched between them is the visible spectrum, UV lasers are usually used where you want to cut or burn the target as they are quite energetic.

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Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh

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If Im wrong, then Im wrong. Aint the first time.

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9 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

If Im wrong, then Im wrong. Aint the first time.

You're not wrong 😉 You're just not quite right 😉 Laser and infrared are types of electromagnetic radiation - a laser is actually a focused beam of "light" but light can also be treated this way. And if we accept such an assumption - then you are right, everything that is in the "invisible" band falls into the same range - only that this range of wavelengths and frequencies is quite extensive 😉 And on the one hand, there is such a "safe IR" which you won't get burned, and on the other hand, such UV ranges as Alicatt wrote about - that can burn the TV along with half of the house 😉

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On 1/14/2023 at 12:45 AM, Rick50 said:

 

Coota0 thanks for the info!!  

Recently in the Apache forum (DCS Longbow Apache) there was talk about how during the sandbox wars, Apaches suddenly got new IR lasers attached to the 30mm cannon, apparently to allow the Apache crews to "indicate" items of interest to anyone with NVG's, like forward observers, spec ops, armored or infantry, or even other aircraft. This all confused me because up to that point I thought the laser designators used for LGB's and Hellfires were able to be seen using NVG's but apparently not! Thus, with real tactical situations occuring so incredbily often, a quick fix solution was bound to appear.

 

I'm guessing this is a very similar or the same laser type, and can't be used for Hellfire or LGB ordnance, but is great for NVG use?

 

 

The laser for the MMS (or the one on the Apache or anything else designating a target for a laser guided missile/bomb) cannot be seen by the naked eye or under NVGs. You just know that you boresited the laser before take off and know where the crosshair is on your screen and your missile bomb (if in the right mode) is picking up properly coded laser energy (PCLE). I think the confusion comes from movies/ tv shows (I'm looking at you JAG) where they show the lasers. We had a laser on the .50 cal (which i personally didn't use much) and we carried an IZLID laser pointer in the cockpit too (I also saw some handheld lasers that could be put on kind of like a glove missing fingers and you could point with your index finger with an laser emitter, I didn't use them) The laser on the gun (also an IZLID) and the hand held IZLID could both be seen under NVGs, but could not be seen by the TIS in the helicopter.


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7 hours ago, Nahen said:

You're not wrong 😉 You're just not quite right 😉 Laser and infrared are types of electromagnetic radiation - a laser is actually a focused beam of "light" but light can also be treated this way. And if we accept such an assumption - then you are right, everything that is in the "invisible" band falls into the same range - only that this range of wavelengths and frequencies is quite extensive 😉 And on the one hand, there is such a "safe IR" which you won't get burned, and on the other hand, such UV ranges as Alicatt wrote about - that can burn the TV along with half of the house 😉

Yeah we used slightly defocused IR lasers for object illumination at distances of 1.5km and over for use with specialised CCTV with very big lenses, just spreading the beam enough to illuminate the field of view of the camera lens combination, on those installations we used concrete towers rather than metal poles and it was the lens that was mounted rather than the camera which was hung off the back of the lens 🙂

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Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh

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On 1/14/2023 at 11:32 PM, Nahen said:

The IR wavelength in the remote controls is the so-called "near infrared" average wavelength in the LEDs in the IR remote controls is about 900 nm.
"Laser" in the invisible band, e.g. ultraviolet from 10 to 400 nm, so the differences can be quite large

"IR" denotes a frequency range of light. There are some other commonly known bands: "visible", "Red", "UV", etc.

LASER is a method to amplify light of any frequency to make it coherent, which, when focused makes it less susceptible to diffusion. That property makes it well suites for applications where you need to transmit information over large distances (an unfocussed beam would lose too much energy after a short range) - information encoded in the beam itself, or to simply point to a target to make it visible (laser pointers) or read information (compact discs - anyone remember those? IIRC my copy of LOMAC came on one of those). Or when you need to transfer energy on a spot (cutting, welding, engraving etc).

Meaning: 

  • There can be IR lasers and simple ("standard") IR lights; using the word 'Laser' by itself says nothing about the frequency spectrum of the light that the laser uses
  • Using a laser for a TV remote would be counter-productive: since laser light is coherent and focused, you'd have to exactly hit the receptor to transmit the information. Should you be able to do that, however, such a remote could have a range of multiple kilometers. Normal light-based TV remotes simply use standard LEDs in the infrared range that intentionally diffuse the light over a large area to maximize the chance of hitting the receptors. That's why their range sucks.

 


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7 minutes ago, cfrag said:

"IR" denotes a frequency range of light. There are some other commonly known bands: "visible", "Red", "UV", etc.

LASER is a method to amplify light of any frequency to make it coherent, which, when focused makes it less susceptible to diffusion. That property makes it well suites for applications where you need to transmit information over large distances (an unfocussed beam would lose too much energy after a short range) - information encoded in the beam itself, or to simply point to a target to make it visible (laser pointers) or read information (compact discs - anyone remember those? IIRC my copy of LOMAC came on one of those). Or when you need to transfer energy on a spot (cutting, welding, engraving etc).

Meaning: 

  • There can be IR lasers and simple ("standard") IR lights; using the word 'Laser' by itself says nothing about the frequency spectrum of the light that the laser uses
  • Using a laser for a TV remote would be counter-productive: since laser light is coherent and focused, you'd have to exactly hit the receptor to transmit the information. Should you be able to do that, however, such a remote could have a range of multiple kilometers. Normal light-based TV remotes simply use standard LEDs in the infrared range that intentionally diffuse the light over a large area to maximize the chance of hitting the receptors. That's why their range sucks.

 

 

That's why I wrote "laser" and not laser 😉

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2 hours ago, cfrag said:

LASER is a method to amplify light of any frequency to make it coherent, which, when focused makes it less susceptible to diffusion.

No, not of any frequency. You need a very specific set of at least three, but usually four states of which two are relevant for the actual laser wavelength (the other two are just for the pumping process to create the inverse population). Although we know many such sets for different atoms and molecules nowadays and although you can use advanced techniques like frequency doublers to access even more wavelengths, you can't create a laser for any frequency/wavelength.

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