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Virpil vs VKB


Belphe
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Hi,

 

I'm torn between Virpil and VKB. Both companies make amazing gear and both are as expensive as they are hard to get.. I mainly fly the Tomcat and again - both manufacturers plan on releasing F-14 grips... Initially Virpil was in the lead due to compatibility with HOTAS Warthog grip (A-10 & now the F-16) but lately I heard some very positive opinions on the VKB and lost all my confidence!

 

The plan was to get a Virpil VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base, VPC Flightstick Extension - 200mm and VPC V.F.X Grip (F-14). Later, I was planning to buy the new Thrustmaster F/A-18 grip and own dedicated sticks for all modern aircraft that I fly. Then I read about VKB actually working together with Heatblur to produce their own Tomcat grip. Others also mentioned dry clutches in the VKB base but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to do any research on their pros and/or cons. Negatives were: inability to use the Warthog stick and the fact that as far as I know VKB don't sell their bases on their own.

 

And so I was back to square one. Virpil or VKB... Could you please comment on this and help me make my mind up?

 

Thanks


Edited by Belphe

Never say never, Baby!

 

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Consider:

 

Difficult will see VKB F-14 grip before Q3/4 of 2020.

 

Negatives were: inability to use the Warthog stick and the fact that as far as I know VKB don't sell their bases on their own.

 

Correct, you need buy a complete stick from VRB, the most affordable option is Gunfighter base with KG-12A grip - around $45 less than the next option, with SCG Kosmosima grip (that include twist axis).

 

You can use Warthog and F-18 AddOn grip on VKB Gunfighter base, if...

 

are able to buy the electronic/mechanic adapter need for this.

 

This "soon" in the red text of link don't mean exactly... soon. :)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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VIRPIL. Simple. Compatible with Thrustmaster Warthog compatible Grips without extra work.

Plus you can actually order the VIRPIL Gear and receive it within a reasonable timeframe.

VKB apparently cannot provide this basic service.

"Production Ready" products are sitting in the VKB pipeline since a lot longer than a year and they are very defensive about any ETA questions. I wouldnt bother.

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Both are great products (I have both)

Virpil little more standard in that it uses same connectors as Warthog.

As stated Virpil easier to actually get one.

 

Having said that, I have been using my Gunfighter Pro and MCG Pro grip and love them. I waited close to a year to get the grip I wanted for the base though, in which time I used the Virpil original setup and loved it also.

Don B

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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Hi,

 

I'm torn between Virpil and VKB. Both companies make amazing gear and both are as expensive as they are hard to get.. I mainly fly the Tomcat and again - both manufacturers plan on releasing F-14 grips... Initially Virpil was in the lead due to compatibility with HOTAS Warthog grip (A-10 & now the F-16) but lately I heard some very positive opinions on the VKB and lost all my confidence!

 

The plan was to get a Virpil VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base, VPC Flightstick Extension - 200mm and VPC V.F.X Grip (F-14). Later, I was planning to buy the new Thrustmaster F/A-18 grip and own dedicated sticks for all modern aircraft that I fly. Then I read about VKB actually working together with Heatblur to produce their own Tomcat grip. Others also mentioned dry clutches in the VKB base but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to do any research on their pros and/or cons. Negatives were: inability to use the Warthog stick and the fact that as far as I know VKB don't sell their bases on their own.

 

And so I was back to square one. Virpil or VKB... Could you please comment on this and help me make my mind up?

 

Thanks

 

Virpil gives way more options and also has a Tomcat grip, along with all their grips and Thrustmaster's grips.

 

The VKB base is the best base at it's price point bc of the clutch. It's the only thing that sets it apart from Virpil, but if you google reviews on VKB bases and grips the quality of their grips comes into question. Just seems like you lose to much just to have the clutch the VKB base has.


Edited by dadunn1700
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  • 5 months later...

I have both. VKB all the way. IMO better design and quality across the board than Virpil.

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CONTROLS: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II+Kosmosima Sticks / TM Warthog Throttle - Modified / TM Pendular Rudders

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Since my last post on the subject I have moved to the Gunfighter MK III Pro L, and definitely would highly recommend it now. Awesome stick and very easy to maintain.

Don B

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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I can't speak for the Virpil products, but I have installed VKB adapters in both my TM Warthog and Hornet grips. It was not hard to put the adapters in. As you can see in my post in the VKB forum, I now have 6 grips that work with the VKB with the arrival of the F-14 grip.

 

The VKB stick base feels smooth, has user selectabled precision and filtering, and can be readily adpated to the feel you want with cams and springs.

 

I personally prefer using sticks with extensions sized to provide the same range of motion as the controls of the real aircraft, which should negate the need for programming axis response curves if the in-game stick is programmed correctly. The extensions available from VKB are a 10 cm straight and a 20 cm curved. The 20 cm curved came with my MCG Pro / GF2 combo. My setup is home cockpit is setup to work with a 15 cm straight extension with the Warthog, so the 20 cm curved one ends up being too high and over my lap and the 10 cm straight is just a little too low. I bought a long piece of aluminum pipe with the correct inside and outside dimensions. Whenever I get around to cutting it up and drilling holes, I intend to have various straight extensions around 12.5, 15, 17.5, and 20 cm to give me more flexibility depending on which grip I am using and which aircraft I am flying.

 

I opted for the GF3 upgrade kit for my pair of GF2 bases just to stay as current as possible, but there was nothing wrong with the GF2.

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I have experience with both. My preference goes to VIRPIL. The true plug-and-play compatibility with TM is a factor for me. Lost a TM WH grip trying to install the VKB adapter. Today flying a lot with TM WH grip in VIRPIL base.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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When I put an extension on a vkb base and tightened up the tension to compensate, the stick didn't have much centering force and was too easy to move. Just resting my hand on it wrong could cause unintended inputs.

 

On contrast, the virpil t50 base with the heavy springs keep the wathog grip on a extension very well centered and it feels more realistic to me.

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VKB.

 

I see it's current downside that they have not managed to get their Throttle out, since 2017 announcement. Yes, over 2 years from now. So if you want a VKB complete HOTAS, you need to wait X months to see that throttle, and then fight to get your order in, that means X months to get in line for next batch.

 

For Virpil, I say that Thrustmaster compatibility is nothing more than a drawback. It is holding back in features and capabilities. And you do not want to mix unofficial Thrustmaster grips and based to official base and grips. No, the Thrustmaster connector ain't standard, not even de-facto. For years Thrustmaster didn't offer any extra grips, until DCS Hornet got out.

 

Thrustmaster offers few grips, mainly A-10C warthog and F/A-18C Hornet.

And then one base, A-10C warthog that has bad gimbal design.

 

You will get problems with mixing heavy metal Thrustmaster grips to Virpil, limiting your possibilities to make joystick axis smooth and light to move.

So you want to go fully to Virpil on that moment.

 

Virpil is limited to feature that Thrustmaster has, so if you take Thrustmaster base and Virpil grip, you are out of couple axis and buttons. If you don't then own already Thrustmaster base, it is better to buy Virpil base then and forget whole Thrustmaster existing at all.

 

If you own Thrustmaster, better sell it and move to Virpil, again buying own grip from Virpil to replace A-10C grip.

Eventually you just want get away from Thrustmaster than mix those two.

 

What comes to throttles, better get Virpil than Thrustmaster, again. Better axis, buttons etc. But you don't get A-10C throttle design if that is so important.

 

And that is why Virpil is better than VKB, as they have the throttle and already few versions from it (again a problem as they have not managed to make it one great unit but changed few times).

 

If you fly multiple aircrafts, only thing that really matters is that you get enough buttons, axis and so on to match the real HOTAS buttons and axis. And VKB MCG offers more than either ones, but lack of throttle puts it back to you use something else.

 

Meaning you will be more than happy to use VKB MCG pro or Virpil Alpha than anything else.

And if you want to get full set now, it is Virpil. Until VKB throttle comes out, you don't know what they have to offer. Like I take sliding throttle over any tilting throttle. Why I wait VKB, and why I picked MCG PRO as it is still best grip (Virpil Alpha is equal there).

 

If you fly in VR (like why to fly any other way???) then all you want is HOTAS that has all buttons and axis to fill real HOTAS functions. Not more, not less.

Buttons at throttle base etc doesn't matter, they are irrelevant as your cockpit in DCS does it all better for immersion and learning.

 

Thrustmaster got it's fame from time when Virpil and VKB didn't exist.

It's competitors were Saitek with X42 and X52 kind HOTAS setups or something else from Logitech etc. Like closest was then Logitech G940 that yet wasn't same.

 

But since VKB and Virpil, I wouldn't look at Thrustmaster at all, but either it's functions or compatibilities.

 

So to this date Virpil has managed to push more out than VKB, but compromised with grip designs because Thrustmaster than going better like VKB.

 

But VKB needs to get their act together, get throttle out and start producing more of those for wanted customers.

 

So if want to get all now, joystick, throttle and pedals, get Virpil and never look anything else.

If want to wait for throttle, get VKB joystick and pedals.

 

Thrustmaster is like legacy that just got beaten up by better gimbals and grips designs.

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When I put an extension on a vkb base and tightened up the tension to compensate, the stick didn't have much centering force and was too easy to move. Just resting my hand on it wrong could cause unintended inputs.

 

On contrast, the virpil t50 base with the heavy springs keep the wathog grip on a extension very well centered and it feels more realistic to me.

 

The VKB is also very customizable with cams, springs, and dampers. It comes with two sets of cams and several different springs.

Don B

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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VKB.

 

I see it's current downside that they have not managed to get their Throttle out, since 2017 announcement. Yes, over 2 years from now. So if you want a VKB complete HOTAS, you need to wait X months to see that throttle, and then fight to get your order in, that means X months to get in line for next batch.

 

 

I don't see much of a downside here. The Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle is just fine. I would take it over the Virpil throttle anyday. (I own both, but much prefer the TM.)

 

Or if one can afford it, sounds like the Winwing throttle is very good also.

 

I also don't see any issue with using controllers from different manufacturers given that almost all sims can recognize multiple controllers. And there is Joystick Gremlin for those that don't.

 

I think you make some very good points regarding mixing the TM controllers with the Virpil bases.

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I don't see much of a downside here. The Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle is just fine. I would take it over the Virpil throttle anyday. (I own both, but much prefer the TM.)

 

Or if one can afford it, sounds like the Winwing throttle is very good also.

 

I also don't see any issue with using controllers from different manufacturers given that almost all sims can recognize multiple controllers. And there is Joystick Gremlin for those that don't.

 

I think you make some very good points regarding mixing the TM controllers with the Virpil bases.

 

Same here - loving my VKB Gunfighter Mk III Pro L and Warthog Throttle combination.

If my throttle gave out I would not hesitate to get another Warthog throttle.

 

I am hoping to someday see VKB offer one with both idle/off and Afterburner detents. For me the throttle must have those. Until then, it is Warthog for me.

Don B

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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  • 2 months later...

For me the flexibility and availability are important factors. How well does it play with your other gear, how quickly can you get it new, or a replacement or a fix if problem arises.

 

Operational wise they are very similar in terms of capability. I prefer my Realsimulator’s F16 grip over others (and plan to get F18 version also), and it is compatible with multiple bases except VKB (TMW base, Realsim FSSB R3 base, Virpil bases and Brunner CLS-E FFB base since they all use the same type of connectivity). Fanboyism aside, Virpil has a few practical advantages in availability and connectivity.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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I just dont like the feel of VKB.The Warbrd though is just so smooth and the way tension ramps up just fits my mind better.

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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I just dont like the feel of VKB.The Warbrd though is just so smooth and the way tension ramps up just fits my mind better.

 

What springs and cams are you using? also have you adjusted the damper at all? I like the tension ramp up I get with mine with #40 springs and the cams it came with the AVIA-H. I then set the damper to what I liked and it feels great. I have no experience with the Virpil but I may get one when they are in stock again to try out. If I dont like it I know someone will buy it.

System Specs: i9 9900KS, EVGA 3090 TI FTW 3 Ultra Hybrid  OC'd, 32gb Gskill Trident Z Royal ram, Samsung 970 PRO M.2 SSD,. Winwing throttle, Winwing panels and VKB GF3/MCGU stick, MFG Crosswind V2, HP REVERB G2.

 

 

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I recently purchased a VKB MCG Pro (III). From ordering to delivery took 4 days. From what I can tell, VKB (Europe) is located in the Netherlands and distribute locally. Ordering was quick and easy.

 

My reasoning for choosing VKB was 2 fold.

 

I'm not invested in TM-gear (i.e. Warthog) so interchanging various bits was not a consideration. Also, the MCG Pro sits less high on a desk compared to Virpil's offering.

 

I'm anticipating their VKB -throttle later this year and will purchase it as soon as it becomes available. Having said that, VKB roadmap is clear as mud and I wish they would be a little bit more forthcoming as to what their plans are.

 

Why Virpil decided to strip their throttle of the afterburner detent is beyond me. A throttle without a detent is just silly and a definite "No-Sale" from me.

 

So, I'm stuck with a crappy T16000 throttle for now. Small power adjustments are nigh impossible although the rest holds up reasonably well...

"It's not the years, honey. It's the mileage..."

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Why Virpil decided to strip their throttle of the afterburner detent is beyond me. A throttle without a detent is just silly and a definite "No-Sale" from me.

...

Are you saying it has no OFF/IDLE detent and switch? I was flirting with the thing, but that would be a no-go.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Yeah same here, when Virpil dropped the detents I dropped any consideration of buying their throttle.

 

I am interested in VKB, but who knows when it might come out. Kind of eyeing the Winwing throttle now, just not sure I want to put that much money into it.

I will keep plugging with my Warthog throttle for now.

Don B

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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