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2.5.5.37626 PATCH, Acceleration and fuel consumption have been greatly improved.


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the only change was fuel consumption. performance/acceleration are same.

 

Performance and acceleration are not the same as initial release...

 

As you can see in the following post, tests have been done to record the changes

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4071932&postcount=302

 

I have done a much less official and scientific method of testing, but have observed an increase in acceleration as well. I remember doing an afterburner takeoff right after release where I level off a few feet above the runway after raising the gear and seeing what speed I can reach by the end of the runway. I did the same takeoff after the latest patch and noticed a increase of approximately 25 knots at the end of the runway.

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Yepp, the Viper is far more "aggressive" now, especially when you kick in full burners.

 

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It's a lot easier with ATAGS now, but if we couldn't sustain 9Gs, we'd never be able to properly employ the Viper. It sucks, but you get used to it.

 

Thank you for that insight! Hopefully ED takes your thoughts into account sooner rather then later.

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I agree and disagree with Mover (gasp).

.

 

9Gs in a fighter and 9Gs in an aerobatic prop aircraft are worlds apart.

 

I've done lots of incentive flights - no one has ever GLOC'd on me (lots have gotten sick though). One particularly buff maintenance dude even begged for more 9G pulls.

 

In the Viper, you routinely pull 9Gs set after set. Do you get fatigued? Yes. Are we trained to deal with it, also yes. Has it killed people? Yes, including my best friend in the B-course.

 

It's really hard for a game to simulate the effects of G-forces. I thought the Hornet was a bit too conservative. I never had any issues in that aircraft. The Viper can bite you, but you can also push through it. I don't know how you'd code for that. Wags has told me that by doing g-warmups and G-ex's, you can build tolerance in the game.

 

I don't know the answer for DCS. But I do know that sustained 9Gs is common in this aircraft in real life.

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I don't know the answer for DCS. But I do know that sustained 9Gs is common in this aircraft in real life.

 

Ouch.

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With all that's been written.

 

- Having a fair system all across the board is absolutely fine. You shouldn't start to level a pilot outside the mission. we have that

- Having the missions runtime have an influence (stress accumulating, 4g turns to get used to it, etc.) sure .. why not if ED models it flat across the board, low prio

- Having the individual aircraft effects on perceived G-load modelled would be higher prio. If the F-16 due to the seat really offers more tolerance, then that should be in. If some aircraft doesn't have an interface for a G-suit or flat out doesn't offer one, then it should have less of a tolerance. etc. medium to high prio

- Have nicer visual cues and more realistic effects of oncoming GLOC or straign medium prio

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With all that's been written.

 

- Having a fair system all across the board is absolutely fine. You shouldn't start to level a pilot outside the mission. we have that

- Having the missions runtime have an influence (stress accumulating, 4g turns to get used to it, etc.) sure .. why not if ED models it flat across the board, low prio

- Having the individual aircraft effects on perceived G-load modelled would be higher prio. If the F-16 due to the seat really offers more tolerance, then that should be in. If some aircraft doesn't have an interface for a G-suit or flat out doesn't offer one, then it should have less of a tolerance. etc. medium to high prio

- Have nicer visual cues and more realistic effects of oncoming GLOC or straign medium prio

 

I don't have the experience to compare it to other jets, but on my F-16 ride we got up to 8.5G and with doing decent g-strains at best I didn't even gray out.

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So from a real life perspective and what is modeled in DCS, what does a pilot do for a proper G warmup? At what point in a combat mission would you do this? Just curious, I’ll start incorporating it into my flying.

 

On the couple of A-G training flights I did in a jet we did an initial 2.5G immediately off the runway to check the G-suit & Valve was working ok..and that was the lowest G's we pulled for the next hour.

I can't say we did any 'specific' G-warm ups, as every change of direction involved at least 4-5G, and every ridge crossing involved aggressive pull-ups, rolls and then pull-down over the ridge....every time! So really there was no need to 'warm up' as you were constantly pulling G the whole flight. This would apply inbound to a target area etc - plenty of 'warm ups' on the way.

 

Perhaps if you were up at altitude on a CAP or had a long transit first - but then you are hardly going to be like 'one second there good chap....just need to do my G-warmups first.'

 

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Hi everyone,

 

A revamp of the G-tolerance is planned and a rather high priority.

 

Thanks

 

Awesome, thanks Wags. That’s cool if warmups have an effect btw. I don’t think its too far off honestly, like I said I think you could add some depth to gameplay by making it more dynamic, factor in jerk and time under load. I like the fatigue idea or something similar, but the limit wasn’t an issue in the hornet, with the viper though...

 

9Gs in a fighter and 9Gs in an aerobatic prop aircraft are worlds apart....

In the Viper, you routinely pull 9Gs set after set. Do you get fatigued? Yes. Are we trained to deal with it, also yes. Has it killed people? Yes, including my best friend in the B-course.

 

It's really hard for a game to simulate the effects of G-forces. I thought the Hornet was a bit too conservative. I never had any issues in that aircraft. The Viper can bite you, but you can also push through it. I don't know how you'd code for that. Wags has told me that by doing g-warmups and G-ex's, you can build tolerance in the game.

 

I don't know the answer for DCS. But I do know that sustained 9Gs is common in this aircraft in real life.

 

Sorry go hear about your friend. Such is the business but that one sounds close to home. I agree though, acros are very different from fighters. My point wasn’t really to compare the two though. I haven't flown jets in... 14 years? I've never G-LOC though good couple years back I went up a couple weeks after recovering from pneumonia... Just warming up light push for speed followed by a moderate pull (planning to half barrel roll over into some inverted steep turns to warmup) and felt like I feinted. Was very odd. Not sure if it was the push-pull or something related to being sick, or even how long was out, but I was glad it happened before I’d rolled over as I was still cruising along about 15 nose up.

 

You’re right thought it’s different... in a lot of ways. Symmetric 12G limits for one... and we wear jeans and Nike’s... no ATAGS ;) kidding aside, suits are great for long sustained positive g, but wouldn’t help w/ acro. Changes are too rapid. And while not jets (radials still sound damn good), performance is probably higher than you think. 300ft radius turn at 200kts is a kick in the ass. 60+ deg/sec turns, 400+ roll rates. Much less thrust, though higher than you probably think (thrust:weight ~ .6, almost .7 for new MSX Rs). When you’re paying for your own gas it’s about as much fun as you can have.

 

If you’ve never played with an unlimited I’ve got a two-place su-29 (had a thing for radials since I first flew a t-6). Little more limited loaded up with two guys (+/- 12 solo), but plenty capable for some maneuvers you wouldn’t have learned in service - can’t fly jets backwards, snap/flicks, rolling turns, of course all kinds of tumbles... end over end, 3-axis, regular lomcevaks or on a vertical). Our local ATC guys are cool, will let you fly an overhead break among other shenanigans (no section landings though) as long as no ATP traffic. I’ve only listened to a couple episodes (enjoyed just busy), but if you haven’t done a f-15 interview our little group has a couple retired RedHawks. Same guys that introduced me to DCS actually... or really desktop sims/VR in general. Seems like we can never get everyone on lately but DCS damn fun w/ proper section tactics.

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So from a real life perspective and what is modeled in DCS, what does a pilot do for a proper G warmup? At what point in a combat mission would you do this? Just curious, I’ll start incorporating it into my flying.

 

Reaching back in memory to my time on the T-6, I think we did a 4G turn for a few secs, rolled out level/1G, then into a 5G turn for a few secs in the other direction.

 

But the most we could pull in the T6 was 7G, so I'm not sure if you'd be more aggressive in a fighter. In DCS, before the merge I do a pull-up to 7-8G for a few secs, then invert and pull down for 8-9G to 45* nose down, roll upright and level out. It seems to work in game.

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Reaching back in memory to my time on the T-6, I think we did a 4G turn for a few secs, rolled out level/1G, then into a 5G turn for a few secs in the other direction.

 

But the most we could pull in the T6 was 7G, so I'm not sure if you'd be more aggressive in a fighter. In DCS, before the merge I do a pull-up to 7-8G for a few secs, then invert and pull down for 8-9G to 45* nose down, roll upright and level out. It seems to work in game.

 

Jesus now I feel old you guys are talking about the T-6 that replaced the Tweet not the Texan. Slow and underpowered as it is still among my all time favorites. probably didn’t make much sense before.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what DCS constitutes as warm up, I don’t do anything vertical but there’s no reason not to. FAA doesn’t send you letters on DCS, so while an 8G pull is a helluva warmup, it’s a game, nothing wrong with it. Presumably there’s some threshold you need to hit and precision doesn’t really matter.

 

But for me once I get a couple miles out I’ll do an easy clearing turn to the left starting around 2G, usually pretty slow from climb so I’ll accelerate and pull progressively harder, usually 180 to the left (passing traffic supposed to pass on right), then 180 to the right back on heading. Again, Probably don’t have to worry about this in DCS but I can’t see anything during climb out with the big radial, and no FAA letters or controllers i don’t want to piss off. Leveled out on course I do quick acro check (no loose items, no juice in the wing tanks, engine #’s good, etc.). Out of habit I’ll wag the wings a few times with a little lateral stick and shake her ass with rudder (process for me is as much about getting me warmed up and checking control surfaces as any sort medical blood flow thing). Then i’ll do a lroper warmup, roll 70-75 deg left, pull 4-5G range. Again usually 180 left, roll the long way and 180 right and try to nail my heading. Little further out now I’ll roll inverted and make sure fuel is feeding correctly (my system can be a little finicky). Then a few mild steep turns at around -2 to -3G, focusing on precision/alt control. Again, we probably don’t need to do I n DCS but pushing to turn has different feel so a couple turns focusing on altitude precision gets me sharp and is enough time to make sure I’m feeding correctly. Roll out on course, pull the nose up a bit for a quick aileron roll, then a slow point roll the other direction... pretty good to go at that point.

 

My guess is if only concern is upping tolerance, a couple turns at maybe 4-5G would do it. Probably doesn’t take much, like 90 left and 90 right (educated guess here, I just learned that warmups are in DCS). For me, IRL, in addition to G warmup it’s also about getting myself sharp & coordinated and a mechanical check, so I shoot for precision, maintaining altitude, rolling out on heading, crisp point rolls, etc.


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Jesus now I feel old you guys are talking about the T-6 that replaced the Tweet not the Texan. Slow and underpowered as it is still among my all time favorites. probably didn’t make much sense before.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what DCS constitutes as warm up, I don’t do anything vertical but there’s no reason not to. FAA doesn’t send you letters on DCS, so while an 8G pull is a helluva warmup, it’s a game, nothing wrong with it. Presumably there’s some threshold you need to hit and precision doesn’t really matter.

 

But for me once I get a couple miles out I’ll do an easy clearing turn to the left starting around 2G, usually pretty slow from climb so I’ll accelerate and pull progressively harder, usually 180 to the left (passing traffic supposed to pass on right), then 180 to the right back on heading. Again, Probably don’t have to worry about this in DCS but I can’t see anything during climb out with the big radial, and no FAA letters or controllers i don’t want to piss off. Leveled out on course I do quick acro check (no loose items, no juice in the wing tanks, engine #’s good, etc.). Out of habit I’ll wag the wings a few times with a little lateral stick and shake her ass with rudder (process for me is as much about getting me warmed up and checking control surfaces as any sort medical blood flow thing). Then i’ll do a lroper warmup, roll 70-75 deg left, pull 4-5G range. Again usually 180 left, roll the long way and 180 right and try to nail my heading. Little further out now I’ll roll inverted and make sure fuel is feeding correctly (my system can be a little finicky). Then a few mild steep turns at around -2 to -3G, focusing on precision/alt control. Again, we probably don’t need thisin DCS, but pushing to turn has different feel, so a couple turns focusing on altitude precision. Roll out on course, pull the nose up a bit for a quick aileron roll, then a slow point roll the other direction. I’m pretty good to go at that point.

 

So... if only concern is upping tolerance, my guess is a couple turns at maybe 4-5G would do it. Probably doesn’t take much, like 90 right and 90 left back on course (educated guess here, I just learned that warmups are in DCS). Like I said, for me, IRL, it’s also about getting myself sharp & coordinated and mechanical check, so I shoot for precision, maintaining altitude, rolling out on heading, crisp point rolls.

 

That’s a helluva warmup! And sorry to make you feel old, but I was indeed referring to the Texan II (actually the Harvard II for us Canadians) :smilewink:

 

We would do the standard acro check as well (choose whichever acronym works best for you), before starting our manoeuvres. I don’t think we were that in depth though!

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G-tolerance being in a direct relationship with the amount of flight hours in the Logbook :pilotfly::joystick:

 

Then I would be able to sustain 20G+ (Flanker 1.0 from 95 here) :D

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That’s a helluva warmup! And sorry to make you feel old, but I was indeed referring to the Texan II (actually the Harvard II for us Canadians) :smilewink:

 

We would do the standard acro check as well (choose whichever acronym works best for you), before starting our manoeuvres. I don’t think we were that in depth though!

 

Nah not really, i've got an old injury bugging me and the meds making me chatty (also sleeping weird hours). Looking back my posts are all like 8 paragraphs :cry:

 

But it's just a clearing turn, control and acro check (ballistic logbooks are bad) - all safety/rule reqs. Actual warmup is just a couple 4/5G 180 deg turns and couple rolls.

 

The inverted steep turns are because I suck at rollers, so I practice the core skills whenever possible. I googled a bit but people don't seem to share detailed explanation of the technique, but if you're familiar with the maneuver you can extrapolate the rudder/elevator inputs required to keep the nose moving at a constant rate through the turn.

 

Thinking about it now, I am pretty sure I'd be much better at them with a new plane.

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So from a real life perspective and what is modeled in DCS, what does a pilot do for a proper G warmup? At what point in a combat mission would you do this? Just curious, I’ll start incorporating it into my flying.

 

Two turns. 90 degrees at 4-5Gs and then 180 degrees at 5-7Gs. If you're in an A-G config, it's 4-4.5 and 5-5.5 90-90.

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There's a G warm-up effect in DCS? Do we know that for a fact?

 

My issue with the blackouts is they can come on very suddenly when you were near the limit of everything going black. I think you should be able to go totally blacked out for a second or two before you "lose consciousness". Also the planes sometimes seem to get stuck pulling hard Gs after you've gone unconscious. Your stick and rudder should immediately neutralize, of course. (Maybe they do in some aircraft but not in others?)

 

Instantaneous G loads cause blackout a lot quicker than I think they should as well. It shouldn't just be the G you're at but also the time you spend at it, so a spike for a fraction of a small second shouldn't knock you out. (As often happens when we crash.)

 

I've also had big issues with oversensitive blackouts in other aircraft. I rolled either my Huey or Mi-8 on its back a while ago during a rough landing and ended up inverted in my seat, aircraft completely motionless on the ground. Within a few seconds I blacked out from a mere -1 G (and then couldn't command my troops to get out). I think G effects in all DCS aircraft need a major review and standardization. (Obviously pilots in G suits should be more tolerant of positive G's.)

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