Mars Exulte Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I think they should probably mute/ignore most of us. Especially the ones with alphanumeric handles. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snappy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) I think you should probably stop trolling Zhukov:-) In order not to degenerate this thread into another useless mudslinging match between the supposedly hypercritical overly complaining faction and the hardcore ED fanboys. It was actually going rather well, with people bringing their opinions and suggestions into it in a mostly sensible manner. Of course in the end ED decides what they are going to do or not in order to succeed and keep/expand their customer base. Regards, Snappy. Edited October 17, 2019 by Snappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bephott Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I think more open communication and frequent needs assessment would solve many of the problems listed. Communication was discussed already, so I can only repeat: please talk to us! If you explain something like a delay with a bugfix, we will understand. If you don't, we will think that ED is just ignoring us. I think we have a good community here so ED can talk to us openly. On the other hand I think ED should also ask us about our requirements! It could be a much simpler way for figuring out where to focus next. I mean a simple voting system for example. ED sould just list 5 development items (or modules, or maps) that take similar time to implement, and let us decide which we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2597 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I love this game, and I'm new enough that much of what was expressed in the video hasn't effected me too greatly yet. (~1 year, but already own A-10, F-18, F-16, Nevada and the Persian Gulf). So, consider me invested, but not as heavily as many here. There's a part of me that wonders if perhaps the team is spread too thin? 125 people (obviously not all are developers) is a lot of people, but we have in progress: Vulkan rending engine Dynamic Campaign F-16 F-18 Carrier Update New weather system New AI New ATC New Maps A-10 updates Updating other legacy assets And who knows what else I'm missing. Perhaps some of these items can be prioritized and teams shuffled to focus on them? In particular the people working on everything except the F-16 and F-18 (As frequent updates to those modules are still very high in demand) and Carrier (Upcoming revenue source). I know most developers have a niche, but usually there is some cross over in skill sets, with a project manager and a couple meetings to see how best to divide the work, you might be able to knock out a couple of these features faster, so the community can see the progress. Or maybe tackle a couple of the long standing bugs, like night visibility. Just a thought. (Background: I'm a front end developer with ~15 years experience, so while I don't know how your teams are structured, I'm not completely unfamiliar with how large, multi faceted projects work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 On the other hand I think ED should also ask us about our requirements! It could be a much simpler way for figuring out where to focus next. I mean a simple voting system for example. ED sould just list 5 development items (or modules, or maps) that take similar time to implement, and let us decide which we want.The tricky bit is who is "us"? Forums are usually frequented by a minority of customers and the highly active ones a small subset of that. AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Dragon Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) On the other hand I think ED should also ask us about our requirements! It could be a much simpler way for figuring out where to focus next. I mean a simple voting system for example. ED sould just list 5 development items (or modules, or maps) that take similar time to implement, and let us decide which we want. That was maked in the past. The develop time has not a "fixed" measure. Edited October 17, 2019 by Silver_Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkingGerbil Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Another perspective here. I am a network engineer, build networks that span from South America, North America, Western Europe, Russia and China. We use a well known manufacturer of Network routing, switching, firewall gear. The largest and most well known manufacturer. I subscribe to a thread for Bugs, Bug fixes and Vulnerabilities. Day, after day, every day I get at least 4 emails for a new Bug, Bug fix, or new vulnerability. Every day, 365 days a year, 24/7. This manufacturer is worth Billions, has some of the finest engineers working for it, and employs tens of thousands of people. Yet day in, day out - new bugs, new vulnerabilities, new code fixes. So all the yammering on this thread is amusing, because companies that dwarf DCS deal with the same problems and challenges. We have a good product, voice your discontent, but making cases on how they should run their business is just mental noise that serves no purpose. Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!! JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 We have a good product, voice your discontent, but making cases on how they should run their business is just mental noise that serves no purpose. :thumbup: PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So all the yammering on this thread is amusing, because companies that dwarf DCS deal with the same problems and challenges. We have a good product, voice your discontent, but making cases on how they should run their business is just mental noise that serves no purpose.Having worked in large Corporate IT for over 30 years I feel just the same. To be fair the ED forums are better than most games forums I have subscribed to, I would suggest due to a more mature user base but games forums are just another world! AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bephott Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 That was maked in the past. The develop time has not a "fixed" measure. As a developer I have to disagree. You can give a rough estimation about each development item in weeks at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bephott Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The tricky bit is who is "us"? Forums are usually frequented by a minority of customers and the highly active ones a small subset of that. "Us" is anyone who is willing to give his/her opinion. I'm sure more users would vote if it would take only a click than a comment on a forum topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) if fixing the coregame and having the promised features years ago turn out to be having to pay DLC's, it will be (at least for me) the end of the story. I understand that dev need money, but you placed yourself in the current situation. It doesn't matter how the situation arised ... money still needed. I think the solution is finding new players that buy modules, so veteran players get upgrades without having to buy modules, unless they want. BTW, I'm new player, not asking for others to pay ;) After reading many pages of this thread I'm surprised of the frusttration of many veterans here, but I can understand what they feel after expending so many thousands of hours and thousands of dollars here. Regarding making DCS 3.0 from stratch, I guess it would be 5 or more years, and after that 3rd parties should redo their modules. I hope ED finds a better solution for giving what veterans ask earlier ... Edited October 17, 2019 by cercata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I think you should probably stop trolling Zhukov:-) In order not to degenerate this thread into another useless mudslinging match between the supposedly hypercritical overly complaining faction and the hardcore ED fanboys. It was actually going rather well, with people bringing their opinions and suggestions into it in a mostly sensible manner. Of course in the ED decides what they are going to do or not in order to succeed and keep/expand their customer base. Regards, Snappy. Who's trolling? It was a joke, but I meant it. Also, public forum. You will have to deal with my commentary. I'm not a fanboi, nor a critic. I KNOW most the people here aren't really in a position to do anyhing but talk out their asses. We don't know what's going on or why (in general terms) nor are we owed that information. All we can/should do is express what we think/want about any given topic, in this case upkeep on the core engine. It was already said by the owner of the company himself that over half the crew are working on the engine itself. There are multiple ''update'' projects in the work for A-10, Ka-50, and afterward the Frogfoots. They are routinely adding new features (wake turbulence and wing vapors just very recently). They even said they were taking note of the commentary in the cited video and following discussion. Not much else to be said/done at this point. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Falcon Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Regarding making DCS 3.0 from stratch, I guess it would be 5 or more years, and after that 3rd parties should redo their modules.... This is at least the second time I hear this in this thread Have you realized that sooner or later it will have to be done? do you want to continue spending on modules and then find yourself in a abandoned DCS due to lack of funds? As I said earlier, I suggest ED to do an investment and make DCS 3.0 redone and make to pay for it, then they can continue to build new modules. While working at DCS 3.0, 10% of the staff will continue on the current version. It's just my fantasy? who know:helpsmilie: Edited October 17, 2019 by The Falcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 It's different making DCS 3.0, than making DCS 3.0 from scratch ... If to fix things, they have to start from scratch, I guess we and ED are in trouble !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Dragon Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 As a developer I have to disagree. You can give a rough estimation about each development item in weeks at least. I was a IT developer (4 years)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Have you realized that sooner or later it will have to be done? do you want to continue spending on modules and then find yourself in a abandoned DCS due to lack of funds? 100% guaranteed DCS will one day pass away, just like every piece of software, hardware, or any other item/topic/thing. That said, you're not really qualified to pontificate about developmental priorities or ratios @@ I realise you're just expressing your opinion, but most people will safely agree that your idea is terrible lol ''Stop the presses, all income, layoff 80% of your personnel who will be extremely difficult to replace and will never come back so that you can focus on my pet peeves!!'' Yes. That's a terrible idea. Corporate suicide even in this case. The owner already said 50% of personnel are working on core features. That's all we need to know, it's obviously a priority whether it's happening to the slavering public's demanding schedule or not. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NineGzuz Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) My response to the video: 1) It makes perfect sense not to allow air to air combat in the free version of DCS World. It would ruin multiplayer with free accounts being used to hack. This plagues every F2P game. DCS have avoided this entire issue, so very clever of them to do so :-) 2) Also dynamic campaign is not something care about at all. I quite like hand crafted missions (although with a little bit of randomization (e.g. target locations)) Edited October 18, 2019 by NineGzuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted October 18, 2019 ED Team Share Posted October 18, 2019 I think they should probably mute/ignore most of us. Especially the ones with alphanumeric handles. I'd find this funny had I not already muted/ignored you ;) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I quite like hand crafted missions (although with a little bit of randomization) The problem is the workload involved. Making a complex mission with integrated scripting for randomization is a crapload of work. So trust me, we honestly DO need a dynamic content generator even if the benefits aren't obvious to all ;) The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beppe_goodoldrebel Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 The problem is the workload involved. Making a complex mission with integrated scripting for randomization is a crapload of work. So trust me, we honestly DO need a dynamic content generator even if the benefits aren't obvious to all ;) :thumbup: I wish at least that the Instant Action generator could be more complex to actually random generate mission. I've read some months ago that this function was in process to be renewed by no other info from that newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Falcon Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 100% guaranteed DCS will one day pass away, just like every piece of software, hardware, or any other item/topic/thing If to fix things, they have to start from scratch, I guess we and ED are in trouble !!! Let's hope :cry: i believe in ED more than any other sim :v: and in a new DCS3.0 :egg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I absolutely love DCS. I'm so happy that it exists and it has so many parts that are absolutely amazing. At the same time, I have to agree with all that is said in the video. It really echoes all the frustrations I have had with DCS over the years. I really really hope the management and devs take these constructive criticisms very seriously rather than try to make excuses for the way things are - Ultimately for the betterment of the product as a whole. The flight sim world will be shook up next year (by a product I won't name for fear of getting banned), and even though it's not in direct competition, if it lives up to the hype, it may lead to frustrated players spending less time with DCS and more time with it. PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Falcon Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I was thinking of the speeches made earlier about creating a new DCS 3.0 from scratch. I state that I am not a computer programmer but I believe that the main things that need to be changed/added/modified are the general operation of the sim and optimization. Not everything has to be remade from scratch, many of the things are already done only have to be perfected and inserted in a new core. I hope i got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzicato Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I was thinking of the speeches made earlier about creating a new DCS 3.0 from scratch. I state that I am not a computer programmer but I believe that the main things that need to be changed/added/modified are the general operation of the sim and optimization. Not everything has to be remade from scratch, many of the things are already done only have to be perfected and inserted in a new core. I hope i got it right. It doesn’t make any sense to tell seasoned experts how best to do their jobs. It’s fine to respectfully point out the issues you’re seeing, but the team at ED are the best placed to decide what to implement any given solutions. Whatever other shortcomings ED may have, they’re clearly very seasoned and talented developers. i7-7700K @ 4.9Ghz | 16Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | MSI Z270 Gaming M7 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti Gaming X | Win 10 Home | Thrustmaster Warthog | MFG Crosswind pedals | Oculus Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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