This video said everything !

[Baldrick33]

It doesn’t make any sense to tell seasoned experts how best to do their jobs. It’s fine to respectfully point out the issues you’re seeing, but the team at ED are the best placed to decide what to implement any given solutions.

 

Whatever other shortcomings ED may have, they’re clearly very seasoned and talented developers.

With my experience in other simulation genre there does seem something of a correlation between the people who play it the most, especially online, and the vocalised dissatisfaction, which is a little ironic given they get the best value (if measured as cost per hour) out of the product, whilst considering themselves key to its success having acquired many modules over the years. Yes, they are key in the sense multiplayer servers need to have regular pilots for new players to join and surely a hardcore simulator is for hardcore players?

 

Yet I think we need to be careful in determining what is “best for business” with products like these. The uncomfortable truth maybe that the developers would be better off making a product that caters to a wider audience and there are good reasons they are in a monopoly position, simply because no one else wishes to do it purely from a business perspective. The raison d’etre for DCS may be as simple as the developers want to do it and if they can make a reasonable living doing what they want it becomes a possibility rather than a natural outcome of economics, remembering that the big publishers abandoned this genre long ago from an economics perspective.

 

Also the demand for new content seems insatiable, at the same time the Viper is released into early access alongside other early access content there are threads saying “what plane next?”, “what DCS needs is a X?”, “when is the X coming?”. This pattern seems to repeat in niche products in other genre.

[Silver_Dragon]

By Wags, DCS develops, plans and more.

https://www.mudspike.com/mudspike-ama-with-eagle-dynamics-senior-producer-matt-wagner/

 

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

[The Falcon]

By Wags, DCS develops, plans and more.

https://www.mudspike.com/mudspike-ama-with-eagle-dynamics-senior-producer-matt-wagner/

Nice:thumbup:

[probad]

It doesn’t make any sense to tell seasoned experts how best to do their jobs. It’s fine to respectfully point out the issues you’re seeing, but the team at ED are the best placed to decide what to implement any given solutions.

 

Whatever other shortcomings ED may have, they’re clearly very seasoned and talented developers.

well said

[Yurgon]

With my experience in other simulation genre there does seem something of a correlation between the people who play it the most, especially online, and the vocalised dissatisfaction, which is a little ironic given they get the best value (if measured as cost per hour) out of the product, whilst considering themselves key to its success having acquired many modules over the years. [...]

 

Good points and well said. :thumbup:

[Pâte]

I kind have to disagree a lot with those

 

 

It doesn’t make any sense to tell seasoned experts how best to do their jobs. It’s fine to respectfully point out the issues you’re seeing, but the team at ED are the best placed to decide what to implement any given solutions.

 

Whatever other shortcomings ED may have, they’re clearly very seasoned and talented developers.

 

 

So all the yammering on this thread is amusing, because companies that dwarf DCS deal with the same problems and challenges. We have a good product, voice your discontent, but making cases on how they should run their business is just mental noise that serves no purpose.

 

And few other in the same type i missed.

 

Products have one purpose, be sold. If your target is starting to be frustrated with your products and a voice start to raise saying we are not happy with A, and you are trying to sell me D No way. Then you can be the best developper of the world you made the worse mistake to do in a business : loose your client thrust. If you don't correct the path it can quickly ruin the company reputation. And especially in a niche market.

 

People complaining don't always complain for the pleasure of it. It does exist, it's called troll. But if you sit down and listen of all the complains raising regarding DCS atm, it make sense. There are problems. And it's good that people do it because you could be sometimes very surprised by things you didnt expected (cf the second part of this post)

 

But indeed, there is the question of which portion of your clients are not happy. I don't know the numbers for DCS tbh. I only can say that for sure more and more people are raising the same concern. However it's probably a very small portion of their clients. Seems mostly the hardcore simmers that suffer the most from the problems pointed. And understand if they are not their main source of revenue. They are looking at democratising more DCS (exemple with MAC & FC). But would kinda ironic then that a sim that like to say is the best high fidelity combat sim is loosing their hardcore players thrust.

 

___________________________________________

 

Second point is that.

 

Beeing a project manager if there is one point i learned immediatly. It's that more often than you would admit the best advises and ideas come from people that are not at all in your business. You may have years of experiences, them, they come with fresh eyes giving them unexpected but good and fresh ideas.

Their ideas or visions wont always work, but it's worth listening them because you can learn a lot.

 

For exemple i don't know if ED thought about removing the F2P aspect and sell the coregame. Raising funds to dedicate more ressources on it. And offer limited in time free try to people to interest them into DCS. But if you think about it, it's not that stupid. And worth at least thinking of this option.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Pâte

[Pâte]

This being said.

 

I appreciate a lot ED move. Wags interview. Their new communication about the WIP on DCS, not just modules. The preview showing indeed their work on the core game ... You guys indeed listened us, and are showing it. Looking foward to see the futur of this :)

[BIGNEWY]

This being said.

 

I appreciate a lot ED move. Wags interview. Their new communication about the WIP on DCS, not just modules. The preview showing indeed their work on the core game ... You guys indeed listened us, and are showing it. Looking foward to see the futur of this :)

 

Yes we have listened, we have had meetings and discussed what we should do going forward.

 

As you have noticed already we have made changes with communication, and you will see more in the future.

 

But also remember this is not an overnight fix, it will take time and patience also.

 

Thank you.

 

:thumbup:

[hanab]

I'm still suspicious but it's great to read that. Hoping that the facts in the game will be seen soon

 

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

Yes we have listened, we have had meetings and discussed what we should do going forward.

 

As you have noticed already we have made changes with communication, and you will see more in the future.

 

But also remember this is not an overnight fix, it will take time and patience also.

 

Thank you.

 

:thumbup:

[Habu_69]

I have supported DCS with purchases of all the theaters, A-10C, F/A-18C and P-51D, mainly because DCS is the only entity developing combat aircraft simulators, my personal passion; and I hoped my support would enhance the pace of development. Like many other customers, I suspect, I have chosen NOT to purchase any more products, like F-16C and F-14B, until some of the long-standing deficiencies are addressed: weather, AI, ATC, night lighting, module completion, etc. I am disappointed that F/A-18C lacks so many major systems nearly 18 months after its release. I believe DCS has exhausted the community goodwill that, in the past, has allowed it to generate revenue through product early access. Some of the posts here provide a modicum of optimism that DCS has heard us and is taking action. Time will tell.

[SmirkingGerbil]

 

 

I kind have to disagree a lot with those

 

 

And few other in the same type i missed.

 

Products have one purpose, be sold. If your target is starting to be frustrated with your products and a voice start to raise saying we are not happy with A, and you are trying to sell me D No way. Then you can be the best developper of the world you made the worse mistake to do in a business : loose your client thrust. If you don't correct the path it can quickly ruin the company reputation. And especially in a niche market.

 

People complaining don't always complain for the pleasure of it. It does exist, it's called troll. But if you sit down and listen of all the complains raising regarding DCS atm, it make sense. There are problems. And it's good that people do it because you could be sometimes very surprised by things you didnt expected (cf the second part of this post)

 

But indeed, there is the question of which portion of your clients are not happy. I don't know the numbers for DCS tbh. I only can say that for sure more and more people are raising the same concern. However it's probably a very small portion of their clients. Seems mostly the hardcore simmers that suffer the most from the problems pointed. And understand if they are not their main source of revenue. They are looking at democratising more DCS (exemple with MAC & FC). But would kinda ironic then that a sim that like to say is the best high fidelity combat sim is loosing their hardcore players thrust.

 

 

 

It is not that I am immune to the problems. Or that I see things that are quirky and they take away from the immersion.

 

I have been flying this sim since 2011 (joined these forums in 2013), and flown many others.

 

When ED took over the Luthier project for WWII birds, I realized these folks care, and work hard. They are staffed literally by giants in the industry, with pedigree's I could only dream about.

 

I choose to remain in the quiet minority, while they tackle all these issues. They have things well in hand as far as I am concerned.

[Worrazen]

He has some interesting points but calling things a "Joke", "a pathetic release", "anti-consumer" and "a hideous release" discredits him in my opinion.

 

I agree. There's many more things in the play, and comparing DCS to any multi-million dollar hollywood-style game out there is incredibly unfair, to expect every single part of the game completely developed, with the modules being 100 times more complicated than the arcade stuff in usual games.

 

People forget this is first and foremost something that wasn't meant for pure entertainmen value.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Worrazen

[Habu_69]

The "Other" major combat flight sim, now in the hands of volunteer programmers, maintains a strong base of support for 3 features, I believe: 1. dynamic campaign 2. multiplayer stability, and 3. (less important) F-16 flight model. I think that fixing DCS bugged/incomplete core features and implementing 1 and 2 would bring a large number of new users into the DCS camp.

[falcon_120]

The "Other" major combat flight sim, now in the hands of volunteer programmers, maintains a strong base of support for 3 features, I believe: 1. dynamic campaign 2. multiplayer stability, and 3. (less important) F-16 flight model. I think that fixing DCS bugged/incomplete core features and implementing 1 and 2 would bring a large number of new users into the DCS camp.

I dont think they evolve item 1, they just make sure that what is working does not break, which is not bad either, given what they already have.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[cercata]

I kind have to disagree a lot with those

 

And few other in the same type i missed.

 

Products have one purpose, be sold. If your target is starting to be frustrated with your products and a voice start to raise saying we are not happy with A, and you are trying to sell me D No way.

You are mixing things, one thing is telling ED what product we want, and another thing is telling them how they must do it, and the posts you quoted are the second.

Edited October 24, 2019 by cercata

[Pâte]

You are mixing things, one thing is telling ED what product we want, and another thing is telling them how they must do it, and the posts you quoted are the second.

 

Check the entire post. Second point is addressed too

[Pizzicato]

Check the entire post. Second point is addressed too

 

Yeah. I think your point was that you’d be happy walking into a restaurant and telling a chef how to cook your meal, or walking into a garage and tell the mechanic how to fix your car.

 

I'm not convinced.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Pizzicato

[Baldrick33]

For exemple i don't know if ED thought about removing the F2P aspect and sell the coregame. Raising funds to dedicate more ressources on it. And offer limited in time free try to people to interest them into DCS. But if you think about it, it's not that stupid. And worth at least thinking of this option.

I can't imagine that ED haven't given this very serious thought, probably multiple times over the years. Businesses evaluate their strategies all the time. People constantly believe they have come up with new ideas on forums!

[bulding]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: good work for the futur

[Eldur]

Wasn't able to watch the video yet thanks to #NeulandsBambusleitung

 

 

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

 

Cologne's cathedral hasn't been finished in over 750 years and it probably never will be.

Kinda like DCS, since there's always things to improve. And as long as ED is on the boat, I hope they'll keep working on it for generations.

[ac5]

Not my video, but ED if you could watch it and listen it it would be moooooooore than welcome.

 

 

This guy said with clear explanation what a lot of people here are saying since YEARS, and we are dying to you listen to us.

 

I have also seen this video, and it sums up everything I absolutely LOVE and HATE about DCS too......

 

Though I could not find this guy X-CHECK as a member in the forum... ?

[Worrazen]

I don't agree with half of what the guy says, and I forgot whether I already commented on the thread, or I did on youtube, or on reddit, but if I did one more time wouldn't be too much, it seems contradictory in some cases as well, it can't be both. The attitude is also unneeded, they direct nature of accusations without actually supplying any references, if anything, the devs could be suffering from effects of sad passing of Igor Tishin, and other things, the F-16 situation explained it well, it was a campaing to get things going in this area and get it over with, to start the particular tech with F-18, get F-16 in when far enough, simultaneously build upon the both, now that hoop is over with the the core tech develop comes along with the models improving, but less models as more people work on the core, so it's kinda, let's get a few more models in for the core crunch, I believe there will be a few years when new modules will be less frequent, but that's okay and totally expected, it's a worthy tradeoff for all the core upgrades.

 

And about the apologists, In reply to a popular hoggit thread, it's actually because half of the stuff is not completely watertight what the haters say, if they don't want EA then why did EA almost crash the servers, ignore the EA then?, it's about self-analysis of the criticism as well, it goes both ways not one way, the community should keep it self up to standards.

 

Some remain in autopilot and treat DCS/ED same way as one of MOBA/BattleRoyale developers or whatever the nonsense teenage gaming fads are these days.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Worrazen

[BitMaster]

I think we should all relax and let the devs do their job.

 

It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock'n'Roll

[msalama]

It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock'n'Roll

 

Indeed. Cue in the pipes laddie!

[NineLine]

I feel confident closing this on an AC-DC reference...

 

 

You guys have been heard, we are digesting and adjusting from all the feedback, we appreciate it.