nosewheel oversteers on touchdown & takeoff...

[oldcrusty]

Incorrect rudder axis curve? Or brakes axes perhaps?

[fitness88]

I've tried 0-40 curvature but the small inputs and anticipating is the key...

Thanks!

[slug88]

I used to have similar problems until I completely removed deadzone and curvature on my pedals.

[bbrz]

I've tried 0-40 curvature but the small inputs and anticipating is the key...

Thanks!

You are welcome, great this works for you :) :thumbup:

[Moafuleum]

To me the biggest issue is the NWS on touchdown because the speed is arpund 140kts roughly which is just too fast to use nws effecrively. I immediately turn it off on touchdown

[Flamin_Squirrel]

To me the biggest issue is the NWS on touchdown because the speed is arpund 140kts roughly which is just too fast to use nws effecrively. I immediately turn it off on touchdown

 

That means your technique/setup needs work.

[mikemadmax20]

I've encountered the same sit on takeoff and airfield landings. I've got the TM TRP which is pretty precise but, I still disable NWS. I want to get the sucker in the air or on the ground as efficiently as possible.

[bbrz]

As mentioned before, very small correction and anticipation is the key.

 

You should e.g. never correct so much to the left that you have to immedaitely reverse the direction to the right.

Apply a tiny amount of left rudder and wait. If it was too little another one.

 

This is not a high performance tail dragger where you have to be lightning fast and dance on the rudder pedals.

Edited October 15, 2019 by bbrz

[Harker]

So, I did some takeoffs yesterday and I use differential braking much less than I thought. It's mostly small, frequent corrections with the NWS and I use (a little bit of) differential braking to fix large deviations (if any), in a controlled manner, because I find it more controllable than NWS for larger corrections.

I updated my previous posts to say that, since apparently I thought I was using the brakes much more than I actually did and I don't want to propagate bad advice. Sorry for any confusion.

[Canada_Moose]

So, I did some takeoffs yesterday and I use differential braking much less than I thought. It's mostly small, frequent corrections with the NWS and I use (a little bit of) differential braking to fix large deviations (if any), in a controlled manner, because I find it more controllable than NWS for larger corrections.

I updated my previous posts to say that, since apparently I thought I was using the brakes much more than I actually did and I don't want to propagate bad advice. Sorry for any confusion.

 

Differential braking on a takeoff roll? Wow, my old CFI would have ripped my balls off for doing that :cry:

[Harker]

Differential braking on a takeoff roll? Wow, my old CFI would have ripped my balls off for doing that :cry:

I know, it seems counter-intuitive, but it's the only way I found to bring her back if I mess up the takeoff roll. If I use large NWS inputs, I find that I oscillate and I end up worse :joystick:. It's usually a non-issue, since small NWS inputs keep me centered, it's a last-ditch measure in case I really mess up the takeoff roll. Better that than eat dirt, right? Maybe I need to add more curve to my pedals...

[Lucky15]

I'm in the 'disable NWS' camp & have been for a long time before DCS was a thing.

 

My Virpil stick has the ability to map NWS cancel to the brake lever button press, then I control braking with the lever, so on touch-down it's all done automatic for me. Lining-up for take off I have got in the habit of using the lever to stop so I am set to roll without NWS engaged.

 

I still map toe brakes to my pedals though, & re-enable NWS when the HUD stops counting the speed down on the roll-out.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lucky15

[Moafuleum]

That means your technique/setup needs work.

 

Do you land with <70 kts? How do you do at a crosswind landing?

[Lex Talionis]

The hornet is designed to have NWS engaged during TO/landing.

 

Much of this has to do with technique. And as usual, context is everything. For this topic there is much.

 

Disengage/engaging the NWS is a technique not used for reasons. If there is any deflect in the rudders when NWS is engaged, the wheels will snap to align with the rudders and possibly induce a PIO. Same with disengage. If disengaged with a desired deflection, that desired deflections will most likely fair out and result in loss of directional control.

 

Dragging the brakes with the massive thrust levels involved is also frowned apon. (Peddle to the floor simultaneously dragging the brakes in your car)

 

Keep the NWS on, and use the brakes with the mindset of a light switch. Your either stopping or going, there is no in between. Use the rudder to stay aligned with the runway. If it gets to outa wack, consider aborting the TO.

 

We tend to draw a proverbial line in the sand when it comes to TO and landing.

 

During TO that line seperates two regions called "high speed " or "low speed" aborts. If in the low speed region and anything goes wrong ya typicaly abort the TO and just taxi back for another attempt. For high speed aborts, we typically only do so in the event of an emergency like a fire light/bad engine situation. The mindset being "it is better to risk a high speed abort than a bad engine airborne" Otherwise when in the the high speed region, we would typically peel the aircraft off the deck, get airborne because we are closer to flying than stopping, and hope we dont screw it up. And dont screw up the next TO.

 

During landing, if anything goes wrong that line is often a consideration of if flyaway airspeed is available coupled with usable runway. If we have the AS and runway, and the landing is botched up, blown tire, directional control issues, etc, (just about anything short of bleeding engines) we get airborn again and come back arround for another pass. If there is not enough airspeed and runway, drop the hook and take the long field arrestment.

 

Remember, the jet is a better "airplane " than it is a "car". Airborne is often better than abort at high speeds, landing or TO. Also look into the abort procedures in the hornet EPs and read that chapter for more context.

 

In short, don't force a bad TO or landing if you don't have to.

 

I believe what is happening is, the realities of operating a high performance (virtual) aircraft is simply starting to show how unforgiving it can be during regimes of operation that requires particular atention. I.e. the transitions between wheel control authority to aerodynamic control authority, and back again.

 

I would consider critiquing the accuracy of your TO / landing roll and line up first. We start students from a full stop ensuring they are 100% ligned up looking down the runway, nose wheel and rudders centered, befor even powering up for this very reason. Power up, heels to the deck (100% off the brakes) and looking all the way down the runway while scanning for NWLOS. I have seen many commands do away with rolling goes to simply cut out the problems they can create. Much of what has been talked about reads like a classic over controlled, rushed roll and go TO hasrep.

 

And as usual, have to make the "this is a game" comment. These are all RL considerations designed to mitigate risk and may not necessarily be applicable to a game. (I avoid control curves whenever possible and do not have any in the peddles)

 

Hope this helps. :)

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[=475FG= Dawger]

The Hornet feels like a real airplane to me.

 

I think 99% of this issue is operator/input equipment error.

 

I find the Hornet can takeoff with your feet on the floor in game no wind with smooth power application.

 

If the nose is wobbly with no input from the operator, the input equipment is to blame.

 

If the nose wobbles due to operator input, the operator is to blame.

[Lex Talionis]

Lex, How about NWS - OFF after the rudders become effective? Is that a thing in the Hornet IRL for field TO's or nah?

 

 

Was never needed. (Shrug)

Whats more, you just dont know what % of your authority is coming from the wheels or the rudders. It is all a bit of a guess untill you are airborne.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Do you land with <70 kts? How do you do at a crosswind landing?

 

The Hornet isn't going to fly that slow!

 

I can't remember crosswind landings being a particular issue, I just use the rudders to keep straight and maybe a little differential braking.

 

Are you over-controlling? You could always post a track for some feedback.

[AvgWhiteGuy]

NWS off for me works fine on landing initial touchdown and thru about 60kts. I'm doing roughly the same on T/Os

I find the TM TPRs way too delicate and touchy so far.

 

@mikemadmax20....can you advise me on your TPR settings so I can dial these boys down a bit?

[Harker]

In short, don't force a bad TO or landing if you don't have to.

 

I believe what is happening is, the realities of operating a high performance (virtual) aircraft is simply starting to show how unforgiving it can be during regimes of operation that requires particular atention. I.e. the transitions between wheel control authority to aerodynamic control authority, and back again.

I guess that's my mistake; instead of aborting a bad T/O, I keep going. I find it to occur more with asymmetrical loadouts, since my roll trim is not perfect (maybe there set values for roll trim with specific loadouts?). Most of the time it's not an issue. I should work on my technique more and maybe adjust my pedals' resistance.

 

Thanks for the info, btw! :thumbup:

[dburne]

Never had a problem with NWS. I just keep it ON through whole T/O and LDG.

 

:thumbup:

 

Same here, no issues.

[Tholozor]

For me I just increased the curve on my pedals to compensate for PIO.