Show me your Crosswind Skills

[Deano87]

Weirdly I don’t have any issue with the takeoff handing of the Viper. I fly taildraggers a lot and I guess I just naturally keep it straight with rudder. <shrug>

[Hoffster]

Weirdly I don’t have any issue with the takeoff handing of the Viper. I fly taildraggers a lot and I guess I just naturally keep it straight with rudder. <shrug>

 

Should pedal work required even be remotely related to taildraggers? I would expect not from an F-16.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Should pedal work required even be remotely related to taildraggers? I would expect not from an F-16.

 

I don't see why not, both require the same technique.

[Hoffster]

I don't see why not, both require the same technique.

 

Torque effect, gyroscopic effects, prop wash over control surfaces etc. Different technique.

[Deano87]

I’m not saying that it requires the same amount of movement as say a spitfire. I’m just saying that I do it naturally. I tend to just need a trickle of NWS and then rudder in one direction or another depending on the wind. And it doesn’t feel drastically wrong to me. I never fly in calm conditions. Always with at least 5kn of wind, usually crosswind. But when I have taken it off in calm conditions it’s been fine.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Torque effect, gyroscopic effects, prop wash over control surfaces etc. Different technique.

 

Not really. You've got to keep the nose straight either way.

[Hoffster]

Not really. You've got to keep the nose straight either way.

 

You are right, you push them the same way, and that is where the similarities end.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You are right, you push them the same way, and that is where the similarities end.

 

But that's the point. The ability to keep the nose straight is a transferable skill, one that tail draggers are good at teaching.

[bbrz]

On the takeoff roll, it seems to want to wander off the centerline on its own (NWS Off) and even in relatively benign conditions it takes way too much rudder to drag it back off the edge of the runway. This is a trait that a “Nose Dragger” should not exhibit until the nose wheel comes off the ground. Then (and only then) should the jet even think about trying to weather vane into the wind.

Off course a tricyle gear airplane does exhibit this behavior. Don't forget that only between 10-20% of the aircraft weight are resting on the nosegear.

Furthermore the tail of the F-16 is very big and provides a lot of surface for the wind.

[mkosmo]

You are right, you push them the same way, and that is where the similarities end.

 

 

No, not really. If you need to yaw right, add right pressure. If you need to yaw left, add left pressure. The problem with the sim is that you lack the feedback, both in the pedal and your body.

 

 

Some people make some of the stick and rudder of flying sound a lot harder than it really is.

[Hoffster]

No, not really. If you need to yaw right, add right pressure. If you need to yaw left, add left pressure. The problem with the sim is that you lack the feedback, both in the pedal and your body.

 

 

Some people make some of the stick and rudder of flying sound a lot harder than it really is.

 

Well, I kinda agree with you. The question however stands. Some of you seem to "like" the pedal work required and are fine with it. However comparing it to other jets we have of older and newer generations with and without fbw. This one is a handful on the roll for me and others making threads about the strong yaw moment. That is what is making this question interesting. I mean the Viggen, almost pedals off to keep straight, M2000 small toe taps to keep lined up, F-16 large pedal movement and holding it deflected to keep pointed down the runway in very moderate winds without Nws engaged. Or maby we are plain wrong and the F16 is very much a stick and rudder aircraft on the ground?

[Donut]

Weirdly I don’t have any issue with the takeoff handing of the Viper. I fly taildraggers a lot and I guess I just naturally keep it straight with rudder. <shrug>

 

Are you saying that when you takeoff, you are applying rudder input at all times, even with a clean jet and no wind? If so, do you have to do the same in other DCS aircraft?

 

For me, if I load a mission all set up for takeoff on the runway, the F-16 will require rudder input, other aircraft do not. This is with a clean jet and no wind.

 

Why does the F-16 require so much rudder input during the takeoff roll and other aircraft do not?

 

When I fly the F/A-18 and F-14, if they require rudder input from crosswind or asymmetrical loadouts, I am able to apply appropriate rudder input and stay in control, keeping the aircraft straight down the runway...I have been unable to do this in the F-16 for some reason.

[Donut]

Or maby we are plain wrong and the F16 is very much a stick and rudder aircraft on the ground?

 

Interesting question...other than WWII aircraft, I have never had to use so much rudder on the ground as I do with the F-16.

[Majik]

Anecdotally, to offer another opinion; taildraggers account for the vast majority of what I fly, and have flown for years with no trouble in the crossiest of crosswinds in any plane, and yet I'm still having trouble with keeping this F-16 on the runway on both take-off and landing.

 

Now I admit that may be down to not dialing in my rudder curve just right yet (I'm trying though!), but something does feel wrong to me here, on both landing and take-off.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Majik

[Emmy]

Are you saying that when you takeoff, you are applying rudder input at all times, even with a clean jet and no wind? If so, do you have to do the same in other DCS aircraft?

 

This is exactly what I was trying to express...

 

Full Rudder to stay on the runway (forget the centerline) while taking off in calm conditions.

 

And no, I don’t need anywhere near as much rudder in the Hog, Hornet or Tomcat.

[Donut]

And no, I don’t need anywhere near as much rudder in the Hog, Hornet or Tomcat.

 

I don't need any rudder input on takeoff in the Hog, Hornet, or Tomcat with symmetrical loadouts and no wind. The F-16 requires constant rudder input in all loadouts and conditions. This is either or bug or there is something unique about the F-16 that explains this behavior.

 

Input from Wags and ED would be very much appreciated.

[USAF-Falcon87]

This is exactly what I was trying to express...

 

Full Rudder to stay on the runway (forget the centerline) while taking off in calm conditions.

 

And no, I don’t need anywhere near as much rudder in the Hog, Hornet or Tomcat.

 

Out of curiosity, do you have the TGP onboard? There is apparently a drag profile problem with it (mentioned on other threads) that makes takeoffs squirrelly with it onboard. I've found that adjusting my curve for the rudder helped a lot with it. Also, be sure to use NWS to 70, then cut it off, being GENTLE with the NWS inputs.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Ric

[Emmy]

Out of curiosity, do you have the TGP onboard? There is apparently a drag profile problem with it (mentioned on other threads) that makes takeoffs squirrelly with it onboard. I've found that adjusting my curve for the rudder helped a lot with it. Also, be sure to use NWS to 70, then cut it off, being GENTLE with the NWS inputs.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Ric

 

This is with a totally clean jet.

[bbrz]

Full Rudder to stay on the runway (forget the centerline) while taking off in calm conditions. And no, I don’t need anywhere near as much rudder in the Hog, Hornet or Tomcat.

That's very strange. There's not a single jet in DCS which requires any noticable amount of rudder during take off in no wind conditions on my install.

[Donut]

That's very strange. There's not a single jet in DCS which requires any noticable amount of rudder during take off in no wind conditions on my install.

 

Same here...except for the F-16.

 

A-10, F-5, F-86, F-14, F/A-18 require no rudder input with zero wind conditions and symmetrical or clean loadouts. The F-16 requires significant and constant rudder input, even clean and with no wind. There seems to be a very significant issue with the rudder and how it handles on the ground.

[bbrz]

Apparently this issue doesn't exist with for all (many?) users.

[Donut]

Apparently this issue doesn't exist with for all (many?) users.

 

It seems that way, which makes it even more strange.

 

I have posted a number of tracks showing the issue.

 

At first, I though it was an issue on my side with controls or calibration. I ruled all that out and of course, if it was a controller issue, I would see this behavior on all aircraft, but I do not.

[Delareon]

same here, i dont need any rudder input for the other jets in no wind conditions, except the F-16 even in clean configuration.

 

I just watched the Track Files from =BJM= and its similar to what i experience.

 

Are the Guys which doesnt experience it sure that they have no feet on the Rudder, no Breaks no Stick Movement and no Trim?

 

Try another thing:

While standing still on the Runway, Apply Full Brakes and then Full AB.

Your Plane will Move to the right.

 

Hopefully they finetune FLCS soon. All the Weapons and Systems are fine but first you need to be able to pilot the Jet in my Opinion.

[Skiprat]

Same problem here, I don’t recall it being as bad before latest update

[Emmy]

same here, i dont need any rudder input for the other jets in no wind conditions, except the F-16 even in clean configuration.

 

I just watched the Track Files from =BJM= and its similar to what i experience.

 

Are the Guys which doesnt experience it sure that they have no feet on the Rudder, no Breaks no Stick Movement and no Trim?

 

Try another thing:

While standing still on the Runway, Apply Full Brakes and then Full AB.

Your Plane will Move to the right.

 

Hopefully they finetune FLCS soon. All the Weapons and Systems are fine but first you need to be able to pilot the Jet in my Opinion.

 

 

The weak left brake is a known / reported thing...