lukynoo92 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Hello, Is it possible to update INS, because using OBL or NAV update button doesn´t seem to work (REC button is not lighting, not blinking, nothing). Can you explain me, how to update INS, or it is not possible at this moment. Thank you very much. MSI Z370 GAMING PLUS, i5 8600K, MSI GTX 1080 GamingX, 16 GB DDR4 3000MHz, 500 GB M2 SSD, 1 TB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 update INS was possible some months ago, I remember doing an OBL update on a 600nm mission. I'll try again and tell you if it still work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Just tried, and I was unsuccessful too. I'll go back to the manual to see if I made a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 It works the same as for the last couple of years... OBL (radar update) simply resets the INS wpt position drift, instead of setting the position to where the radar cursor points. If You have the AJS-37 Viggen, then You can test that to see how it should work. i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukynoo92 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 I own viggen also, so I know how it should works, but at now it is impossible to reset ins drift as before via using OBL button. I created wpt over significant mark and I noticed drift which was unable to reset. MSI Z370 GAMING PLUS, i5 8600K, MSI GTX 1080 GamingX, 16 GB DDR4 3000MHz, 500 GB M2 SSD, 1 TB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosen Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 This is kind of annoying for such a fine INS system... Is this bug confirmed by Razbam? i7-7700K @ 4.9 GHz | Gigabyte Aorus Geforce GTX 1080 Ti | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 2400 MHz (2800 OC) | Asus Strix Z270E Gaming | Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD 1 TB | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD 500 GB | WD NAS Red 2TB SATA3 | Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H80i v2 | Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog | Saitek PRO rudder pedals | Valve Index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooch Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) OBL (radar update) simply resets the INS wpt position drift, instead of setting the position to where the radar cursor points. A fellow simmer told me it used to work correctly in the very beginning but due to a bunch of ignorant cry babies complaining, this led Razbam to change the INS update behavior to the way it is now. Edited December 8, 2019 by Nooch [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 A fellow simmer told me it used to work correctly in the very beginning but due to a bunch of ignorant cry babies complaining, this led Razbam to change the INS update behavior to the way it is now. That not true at all. This behavior is here since the INS update has been implemented... Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 The Mirage is so close to a decent INS implementation. A huge improvement would be to set a new calculated error displacement instead of just setting the offset error to zero magically. The math isn't that hard. It's straightforward vector arithmetic. Opposite to making things harder, this correct form of INS updating makes somethings easier or even possible at all. For example offset bombing where you know the offset very well but the IP or target absolute positions aren't known well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 The Mirage is so close to a decent INS implementation. A huge improvement would be to set a new calculated error displacement instead of just setting the offset error to zero magically. The math isn't that hard. It's straightforward vector arithmetic. Opposite to making things harder, this correct form of INS updating makes somethings easier or even possible at all. For example offset bombing where you know the offset very well but the IP or target absolute positions aren't known well. Maybe have it be optional. Easy mode and "real mode" Kinda like they have for the harrier. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 write it in the BUG section please. its realy time that the mirage gets done . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Maybe have it be optional. Easy mode and "real mode" Kinda like they have for the harrier. The INS drift is already optional, the INS alignment too. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed1606688689 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 It's not possible to update the INS with the master arm on. I don't know if it's intended or a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Huh, that's weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 This is kind of annoying for such a fine INS system... Is this bug confirmed by Razbam? +1 It's really annoying that this isn't getting any attention... :( Maybe have it be optional. Easy mode and "real mode" Kinda like they have for the harrier. Those easy and real options are becoming a bit of a disease as their number increases more and more and in MP it gets more and more difficult to see what cheat options are allowed and are being used by other players. I wish they would keep such easy options away from the simulation mode and stick to simulating the real behaviour. We have the game avionics mode for easy options... Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirola01 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Mirage 2000 Error Hello Dear Support Team I have a problem with the Mirage 2000. There are not enough buttons on the right side of the INS panel. The button between DEST and PREP is not available. I think it says ENC on it. I don't have it. And there's a whole box missing on the left side of the cockpit window above the clock. In the YouTube videos of the Mirage these were always there, but I don't have them in the game. I bought the game from Steam and reinstalled it, but the bug is not fixed yet. I miss these ads. Please help Thank you With kind regards Mario I am a pilot, my home is the clouds and my friends are the eagles when they are not shitting on my cockpit. Heb nicht ab vom Acker, ohne deinen Tacker :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Hi Mario. I guess the video tutorial you watched were done on the former version of the M2000 cockpit. On the updated cockpit there is no more ENC button or EW box on the left side. Everything is fine now and more coherent with the real aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkerbuck Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Yeah the INS update is one thing I never could figure out how to use in the Mirage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRifleRound Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Not like it matters. As modeled the INS is always easy mode because updating doesn't update according to your input, rather it just resets accuracy to 100%. Your designation could be off by miles but the result is perfection every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph21 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Not like it matters. As modeled the INS is always easy mode because updating doesn't update according to your input, rather it just resets accuracy to 100%. Your designation could be off by miles but the result is perfection every time Drift has to be within 15 Nm or you wont be able to validate. But indeed, if within 15 Nm then it automatically update to the correct position of the waypoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirola01 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 hi Габихан. Thanks for your info I didn't know that. I figured it wouldn't work now because the cockpit changed. What is the exact procedure for the INS update? In fly by mode my crosshairs in the HUD are not updated when updating. It stays where it is. I have the same problem with the radar mode INS -Update. The INS update button does not update my crosshairs on the ground. The buttons are inoperable. Can someone here help me please. I would like to know the exact procedure and with which keys. Thanks Sg Mario I am a pilot, my home is the clouds and my friends are the eagles when they are not shitting on my cockpit. Heb nicht ab vom Acker, ohne deinen Tacker :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Tirola01 said: Can someone here help me please. I would like to know the exact procedure and with which keys. INS drift errors are modelled but the update procedure is always perfect i.e. if you do an update, you can't move the waypoint "+" only reset it back to it's correct position. fixed in 2021 Overfly Method • System/HUD in NAV mode • Select waypoint using +/- buttons above the clock. • Press "REC" (or the Nav Update/Magic Unlock HOTAS button) as you overfly the waypoint/landmark to Record the updated position (both REC and VAL buttons illuminate). • Press "VAL" to confirm the new position (both REC and VAL lamps extinguish) (... OR Press "REC" (or HOTAS button) a 2nd time to cancel (both REC and VAL lamps extinguish)) Radar/HUD Method • System/HUD in NAV mode • Select waypoint using +/- buttons above the clock. • Turn on the radar. • Press "OBL" on the PCA to arm the INS "Update" function, a Designation "diamond" appears on the HUD and the radar mode changes to TAS/A2G ranging. • Fly so the HUD "diamond" passes over the waypoint/landmark. • As it does so Press the HOTAS "Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update" button, "T". • If the REC button "flashes" and the VAL button fails to illuminate, you don't have a "good" update i.e. range info from the radar. • If Both REC and VAL buttons illuminate and the update looked good i.e. diamond was over the target and distance looks correct/reasonable. • Press "VAL" to confirm new waypoint position (both REC and VAL lamps extinguish) and waypoint "+" moves in HUD to corrected location. • Press "OBL" on the PCA to unarm the INS "Update" function and return the HUD to NAV and the radar to A2A. Grimreapers Video: Note: When Cap demonstrates a Overfly update, he does it wrongly and presses "REC" too early (REC records the position, VAL validates it). It didn't matter at the time, as position updates used to be "perfect", regardless of position. Edited May 31, 2021 by Ramsay Retest in Open Beta 2.7.1.6709 i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirola01 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 INS drift errors are modelled but the update procedure is always perfect i.e. if you do an update, you can't move the waypoint "+" only reset it back to it's correct position, also IIRC it only works once per mission. Overfly Method • System/HUD in NAV mode • Select waypoint using +/- buttons above the clock. • Press "REC" as you overfly the waypoint/landmark to Record the updated position (both REC and VAL buttons illuminate). • Press "VAL" to confirm the new position (both REC and VAL lamps extinguish) Radar/HUD Method • System/HUD in NAV mode • Select waypoint using +/- buttons above the clock. • Turn on the radar. • Press "OBL" on the PCA to arm the INS "Update" function, a Designation "diamond" appears on the HUD and the radar mode changes to TAS/A2G ranging. • Fly so the HUD "diamond" passes over the waypoint/landmark. • As it does so Press the HOTAS "Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update" button, "T". • If the REC button "flashes" and the VAL button fails to illuminate, you don't have a "good" update i.e. range info from the radar. • If Both REC and VAL buttons illuminate and the waypoint "+" looked good. • Press "VAL" to confirm the new waypoint position (both REC and VAL lamps extinguish) • Press "OBL" on the PCA to unarm the INS "Update" function and return the HUD to NAV and the radar to A2A. Grimreapers Video: hello Ramsay Thanks for your answer. I know the video of Grim Reapers and I have already assigned my key assignments after the video. The only problem I have is that my crosshairs in the HUD do not update the position on the ground after pressing REC and VAL in flyby mode. Also both lamps light up and go out after pressing the VAL key. Only the position in the HUD is the same as before. Same problem with radar mode. I have the display with the diamond in the HUD, only the confirmation with the INS Update button and VAL button does not work for me. The crosshair stays at its old position. The cockpit looks different for me, because there was an update. The ENC button has disappeared and the left box at the cockpit window see my first post is no longer there. Sg Mario I am a pilot, my home is the clouds and my friends are the eagles when they are not shitting on my cockpit. Heb nicht ab vom Acker, ohne deinen Tacker :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirola01 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 INS Update no function I have the same problem on both training missions. Caucasus - M02. Introduction to the INS and NTTR - M02 Introduction to the INS does not work for me. I am a pilot, my home is the clouds and my friends are the eagles when they are not shitting on my cockpit. Heb nicht ab vom Acker, ohne deinen Tacker :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) The only problem I have is that my crosshairs in the HUD do not update the position on the ground after pressing REC and VAL in flyby mode. Also both lamps light up and go out after pressing the VAL key. Only the position in the HUD is the same as before. Are you sure the INS has error ? (Check the aircraft's INS position vs the aircraft's position on the F10 map) Note: The waypoint HUD marker "+" is misplaced, the "real" waypoint position is near the bottom of the top "tick". Note how the waypoint/vehicle stays near the bottom of the top "tick" Same problem with radar mode. I have the display with the diamond in the HUD, only the confirmation with the INS Update button and VAL button does not work for me. I'd need a track to see why the VAL and REC button's don't illuminate when pressing the HOTAS "Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update" button, "T". In my case I usually get a flashing "REC" button because I haven't pointed the nose of the aircraft towards the ground (i.e. in a 7° dive) so the radar can ground range (OBL/TAS). The crosshair stays at its old position. INS update in the M-2000C is more a procedure "trainer", than a simulation as REC/VAL lamps illuminate, etc. and reset postion drift to zero but you can't introduce position error or move the waypoint's apparent position (unless the aircraft already had drift error). The best way to see INS update working is to use active pause and prep 00 on the INS • Active Pause - "LShift+LWin+Pause" • Set Prep 00 and Lat/Long to view aircraft position • Check the F10 map for real aircraft position (cycle LAlt+Y for DDM Degrees Decimal Minutes). • In the cockpit, let time pass and watch the prep 00 Lat/Long change i.e. use LCtrl+Z, LShift+Z, etc to accelerate time. • Use REC and VAL to do an "Overfly" update • Prep 00 resets to the aircraft's "real" position • As time passes Prep 00 again changes due to gyro drift. You can use the same method to see OBL radar ranging do it's thing. I'm not sure if I've ever seen the HUD's waypoint "+" move but that doesn't mean it won't with enough error. The cockpit looks different for me, because there was an update. The ENC button has disappeared and the left box at the cockpit window see my first post is no longer there. Razbam have been working with the AdA to improve the DCS M-2000C The cockpit has been remodelled to match the M-2000C as flow by the AdA 'today' i.e. • instrument filters for NVG, • a different radio, • a different countermeasure box, • the ENC button may have been in a different version - so we get waypoint +/- buttons above the clock instead. Baltic Dragon is working on updating the official manual but until then, Chuck has updated his Guide for the new radio, etc. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157056 Edited February 4, 2020 by Ramsay Add picture for ACTIVE PAUSE "Overfly" Update i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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