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New Clouds Discussion


Mizzy

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Im guessing the biggest problem is the legacy code in DCS World. Otherwise we would have seen the clouds ages ago. The sim is turning into a huge resource hog, up to a point that bigger and better and more expensive PC systems do not seem to make a difference. This is why we can't have nice things in DCS, things such as a new weather system and new clouds.

yeah I do remember one community manager mentioning the dated, spaghetti code preventing this.

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It's just settle for getting rid of the VR blinky clouds.

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I do remember them saying that either one got first out, new clouds or new weather engine.

but considering that weather engine is required to get clouds, it should be so first.

 

Anyways, when the new clouds come out we will see major changes to combat. As you can't just fly and see everywhere perfectly most of the time. Being at high altitude means you have clouds between you and ground troops. So it is little like flying at night at the moment, you are blind to ground.

 

And to get visual for target if one is required to go below cloud cover, the Anti-Air becomes far more dangerous.

 

Flying with instruments becomes mandatory, so good HSI information and target data is important.

 

​​​​​​

​​​​But I am afraid same time as wishful. As if the clouds are anything like the example video of third party indie game, I am going to spend first couple days in DCS just.... Admiring it.

 

It would be so sad if servers will disable clouds then, as it would make gameplay far more easier when one doesn't have clouds but just plain blue sky as now.

but those who want air-quake, they likely do so. As think about the feeling to fly a dog fight in cloudy weather when other can just disappear in them and you end up searching each other's again and again... Cat and mouse. Flying in to clouds can be very effective method to confuse chasing enemy and gain upper hand of them.

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It's just settle for getting rid of the VR blinky clouds.

 

+1 So annoying and immersion breaking.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

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I do remember them saying that either one got first out, new clouds or new weather engine.

but considering that weather engine is required to get clouds, it should be so first.

 

Anyways, when the new clouds come out we will see major changes to combat. As you can't just fly and see everywhere perfectly most of the time. Being at high altitude means you have clouds between you and ground troops. So it is little like flying at night at the moment, you are blind to ground.

 

And to get visual for target if one is required to go below cloud cover, the Anti-Air becomes far more dangerous.

 

Flying with instruments becomes mandatory, so good HSI information and target data is important.

 

​​​​​​

​​​​But I am afraid same time as wishful. As if the clouds are anything like the example video of third party indie game, I am going to spend first couple days in DCS just.... Admiring it.

 

It would be so sad if servers will disable clouds then, as it would make gameplay far more easier when one doesn't have clouds but just plain blue sky as now.

but those who want air-quake, they likely do so. As think about the feeling to fly a dog fight in cloudy weather when other can just disappear in them and you end up searching each other's again and again... Cat and mouse. Flying in to clouds can be very effective method to confuse chasing enemy and gain upper hand of them.

 

+1 To looking forward to whenever these long rumored clouds and weather make their appearances.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Even the new forum has better clouds 😉

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I've been flying some other product a little over the weekend, and the sort of cloudscapes that are possible with today's technology are astounding. I can't wait to see what ED come up with. It's going to rock my socks off, I'm sure.


Edited by schurem

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5 minutes ago, schurem said:

Ibbeen flying some other product a little over the weekend, and the sort of cloudscapes that are possible with today's technology are *astounding*. I can't *wait* to see what ED come up with. It's going to rock my socks off, I'm sure.

Do you think ED will match the "other product"? I'll believe it when I see it, but I sure hope they do... Anything would be better than the current ones though. It's particularly horrible in VR when the clouds rotate when you rotate your head...😖

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They've openly stated they don't have the resources to do what the "other product" does. You can forget about seeing anything even remotely similar to that. Not least because the current legacy engine will implode if they even try it. 

The best we can hope for at the very least are some more realistic looking clouds to replace the current ones with maybe more than 1 cloud layer possible and perhaps some variation of cloud types. That would be a good start. As far as complex weather engines go with thunderstorms, simulated up and down droughts and various changeable phenomena, I think unfortunately we we will be waiting quite some years before there's a totally new game engine here to handle it. 

Nonetheless, even just better looking clouds than the current ones will be great. A larger draw distance and different types of clouds in different parts of the map. That would be great already. Literally anything is better than what we currently have. 

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13 minutes ago, CommandT said:

They've openly stated they don't have the resources to do what the "other product" does. You can forget about seeing anything even remotely similar to that. Not least because the current legacy engine will implode if they even try it. 
 

Where have you got this information from ?

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7 hours ago, Etirion said:

 

I think these were first glimpsed in screenshots more than two years ago, so their existence doesn't suggest we're nearer to a release date to me. However, GlowingAmraam's recent comments have been new, and suggest that we might get an Xmas surprise. I highly doubt it, but it is possible.

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21 hours ago, CommandT said:

They've openly stated they don't have the resources to do what the "other product" does. You can forget about seeing anything even remotely similar to that. Not least because the current legacy engine will implode if they even try it.

 

The real question is, what they meant by that - I mean if you look at what the other sim does, you'll immediately notice it has real time (well, with a certain delay anyway) real weather that gets constantly updated every 15 or so minutes while the whole thing gets computed locally to go on on your local rig at the same time, so the updates are more or less syncs. I highly doubt ED will give us that and I don't think we need it either. But since they already said their new weather engine would comprise humidity, air pressures, temperatures and other such factors, I tend to excpect it to be similarly detailled and accurately simulated, based on given presets that we'll be able to set in the ME to some extent. I mean, we do have a dynamic weather generator in DCS already, so this isn't totally new to begin with. As for the looks, ED always kinda set the bar (if HB didn't already) when they added something new or took something old and rusty to an overhaul. And the fact that we'Re still waitings makes me believe they really want to crack a nut here and not do something half baked where everyone afterwards would come by and be like "but the other product is still so much prettier and better".

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1 hour ago, Eldur said:

 

The real question is, what they meant by that - Yes, I read that ED may not have the resources of the 'other sim' but that didn't mean there bar was lower, just that it would take longer to achieve a satisfactory result considering the bar was set high by the other sim. What the other person said was his interpretation and ED.

 


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7 hours ago, twistking said:

 

Will we get a video from you? I need convincing that these cloud run with more than 1 fps.

Pretty sure we'll get a GA video given his recent hints. A video isn't going to tell you anything meaningful about FPS, though.

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On 12/3/2020 at 2:49 AM, GunSlingerAUS said:

 

I think these were first glimpsed in screenshots more than two years ago, so their existence doesn't suggest we're nearer to a release date to me. However, GlowingAmraam's recent comments have been new, and suggest that we might get an Xmas surprise. I highly doubt it, but it is possible.

They presented Mariana Islands almost a year ago and it is still far away from release. So I would not keep my fingers crossed for a long time. They said that the clouds itself are already done but they decided to include the new weather system etc to the whole package so...

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On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

They've openly stated they don't have the resources to do what the "other product" does.

 

Yes, if other has as resource of 30 personnel and 150 000 €, then it is different thing than if other has 500 personnel and 15 000 000 €.

Have you seen the (assumed) "other project" team size? It is smaller than ED's.

Their resource is that they have for over decade worked for technology and purchased a lot of companies to improve it (to start it even!). 

On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

You can forget about seeing anything even remotely similar to that. Not least because the current legacy engine will implode if they even try it. 

 

You do know that ED is not just making new clouds, they have been making new Weather Engine? One of their first tasks was the develop a model for how a moisture in the air behaves. As that single air molecule that interacts with moisture is a key to understand how to clouds and such will be modeled using math. 

 

"Even remotely similar" is interesting argument, as our current engine is even more than that! We have the clouds casting the shadows on terrain, we have nice puffy clouds instead 2D textures, we have clouds transparency on the edges, we have clouds having torrents of water and snow with proper reaction of the wind etc.

 

BUT we do not have complexity and the engine is holding back (different drawing distances, flickering, non-synced clouds, limited cloud shapes and sizes and scattering, rotating clouds, sometimes backlit clouds etc) and that is reason why they have not just slapped something up quickly as they have been working with the full new weather engine, not just new clouds. 

Clouds are nothing more than a aftereffect from the weather engine. The weather engine has been the limiting factor, restricted to very few things. 

 

On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

The best we can hope for at the very least are some more realistic looking clouds to replace the current ones with maybe more than 1 cloud layer possible and perhaps some variation of cloud types.

 

"The best we can hope"? We already have more than one cloud layer. We already have more than just one cloud type.

So "at the best" we wouldn't be getting anything new than what we already have!

 

On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

 That would be a good start. As far as complex weather engines go with thunderstorms, simulated up and down droughts and various changeable phenomena, I think unfortunately we we will be waiting quite some years before there's a totally new game engine here to handle it. 

 

Game engine (AI, path finding, physics modeling, networking, input/output, memory and calculation processing etc)

Graphics engine (lighting, textures, drawing distance, special effects etc)

Terrain engine (Map sizes, height maps, terrain grid sizes, object counts, infrastructure like roads and rails, power etc)

Weather engine (Moisture, Wind, Turbulence, Pressure, Temperature)

.....

-> New clouds (Visual effects dynamically for the weather conditions, working with the terrain engine and graphics engine). 

 

As ED already said, they have new clouds ready, but they are finishing the new weather engine.

Weather and "game engine" are different things.

 

On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

Nonetheless, even just better looking clouds than the current ones will be great.

 

Well, that is at least that we are going to get.

 

On 12/2/2020 at 5:51 PM, CommandT said:

A larger draw distance and different types of clouds in different parts of the map. That would be great already. Literally anything is better than what we currently have. 

 

Well, there is very likely going to be a lot differences than what we have now.... 

 

wallpaper3.thumb.jpg.2a22476414846ec65c88b80b3eba7ce2.jpg

 

Wallpaper2.thumb.jpg.f2b87a4a44d330ba6cefb4237944c514.jpg

 

Let us not to dive to negativity and hopelessness that what can not be achieved, instead lets hope that ED has spent their talented workers well. 

On 12/4/2020 at 3:35 AM, Blinde said:

They presented Mariana Islands almost a year ago and it is still far away from release. So I would not keep my fingers crossed for a long time. They said that the clouds itself are already done but they decided to include the new weather system etc to the whole package so...

 

The new clouds needs the new weather engine.

 

Without weather engine > No new clouds. 

 

As means how new clouds can be generated and how they look, needs the weather engine that tells the weather conditions for the new clouds functions to form at proper manner. 

Like if a given area has temperature X, wind Y and moisture Z, there will be different kind clouds than on another are that has different values etc.

 

 

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