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[REPORTED]R-27ER goes for chaff when lock is lost


BlackPixxel

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When engaging a target with the R-27ER and you either intentionally unlock it or lose lock when the target starts to notch, then there is a high chance that the missile will turn away from the target into a chaff that the target deployed earlier.

 

This is completely incorrect, as when unlocking or losing lock there is no more radar illumination. As a result, the missile is physically unable to find the chaff that has been deployed earlier.

 

This is a significant issue, as the radar in most cases loses lock when the target turns around and switches to EO backup. During this moment, the missile will, even tough there is no radiation, turn towards a chaff and will be trashed.

 

The Tacview-File shows what is happening: I fire 4 R-27ER and unlock. As soon as I unlock, the first R-27ER suddenly switches its direction and flies towards a chaff, without any radar lock. Then I lock the target again. One R-27ER gets chaffed while the target is locked even though the target is not even close to a notch (another issue). Then I unlock again, and the two remaining R-27ER turn away from the correct intercept heading towards a chaff.

 

The correct behaviour for the missile when the lock is lost is to fly to the last known intercept point.

 

I hope this bug will be fixed.

R-27ER issue.zip


Edited by BlackPixxel
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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a video showing the bug:

 

 

The missiles all track perfectly until I turn off my radar.

The expected behaviour for the missile is to keep flying towards the last known intercept point.

What the missiles do instead is they do a hard turn into a chaff that the target deployed earlier.

 

This is impossible, as I have turned off my radar. Nothing is illuminating that chaff. And still the R-27ER leave the intercept heading and go for the chaffs AFTER I turned off radar.

 

This bug is a big problem when engaging targets. If the target notches briefly in a look down situation, the radar of the Flanker will lose lock and it switches to IRST backup. In this moment, the R-27ER should keep flying towards the last known intercept heading. When the target turns back in quickly and the Flanker regains radar lock, the missile might still be able to reacquire him and kill him. But due to this bug as soon as the radar turns off and switches to IRST backup, the missile will make a hard turn into a chaff that the target has deployed earlier. Even though there is no radiation illuminating that chaff. It is now trashed and unable to reacquire the bandit.

Same happens when a bandit turns cold and drops 1 chaff. The radar will lose lock briefly, and due to the bug the missile will go for the chaff as soon as the radar is off. As a result it has no chance of reacquiring and hitting the target.

 

Another situation where the bug is killing the R-27ER is when you exceed the radar gimbal limits for a splitsecond. When you turn back in and the target is above your nose and hot enough, the Flanker will automatically switch to an IRST lock. This means radar is off, and if there is a chaff in the air the missile will leave the last known intercept heading and turn into the chaff due to the bug. The correct behaviour for the missile would be to stay on the last known intercept heading, and when the Flanker switches from EO to radar lock quick enough it should be able to reacquire the target.

 

I hope this will be fixed.

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  • 7 months later...
More than half a year later, still not fixed.

I imagine that it might be because they are waiting for the R-27 overhaul, which should be happening now.

 

 

If they are working on it now this is a moot point for the R-27, but a place-holder tweak to missiles to get them all roughly useful, even if not totally accurate, might be nice. I imagine things like tweaking the CM resistances are easy since they are a single value in the code as far as I know.

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  • 1 month later...

More like FC3 is neglected...

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ED likes making money, not fixing bugs. Russian FC3 aircraft are heavily neglected, so the chances of it ever being fixed are somewhat low.

 

Don't curve things to suit your agenda

'Shadow'

 

Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

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ED likes making money, not fixing bugs. Russian FC3 aircraft are heavily neglected, so the chances of it ever being fixed are somewhat low.

 

Yet FC3 also costs money. I could accept it, if FC3 was free like SU-25T, but it isn't.

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Problem is not just that people doesn't like to fly Russian jets (claim often heard), but that every pilot who goes against Russian jets are overpowered and gets false simulation experience because there enemies weapons doesn't work properly.

 

So say what ever about, but ED wants to make DCS WORLD only about "BLUE WORLD".

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Pretty sure sparrows are affected as well, just sayin :music_whistling:

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Yes, Aim-7 has the same bug.

 

BUT:

 

You will not encounter it unless you unlock the target and try to relock it.

 

The chaff bug will happen in the Flanker for almost every shot, because of the IRST. Whenever the target is notching, the radar is not in memory mode, but switches of competely while IRST is taking over. At this moment the bug will happen and the missile is trashed.

 

So whenever the target changes aspect, the missile of the Flanker is trashed.

 

US fighters have no IRST, their radar stays in memory mode and then continues tracking when the target changed aspect, which means that the bug will not appear.

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Pretty sure sparrows are affected as well, just sayin :music_whistling:

 

That is like saying R-23/24 are only affected....

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  • 1 month later...

Any news on this ED? Its been a awfully long time

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Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

HP Z400 Workstation

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When engaging a target with the R-27ER and you either intentionally unlock it or lose lock when the target starts to notch, then there is a high chance that the missile will turn away from the target into a chaff that the target deployed earlier.

 

This is completely incorrect, as when unlocking or losing lock there is no more radar illumination. As a result, the missile is physically unable to find the chaff that has been deployed earlier.

 

This is a significant issue, as the radar in most cases loses lock when the target turns around and switches to EO backup. During this moment, the missile will, even tough there is no radiation, turn towards a chaff and will be trashed.

 

The Tacview-File shows what is happening: I fire 4 R-27ER and unlock. As soon as I unlock, the first R-27ER suddenly switches its direction and flies towards a chaff, without any radar lock. Then I lock the target again. One R-27ER gets chaffed while the target is locked even though the target is not even close to a notch (another issue). Then I unlock again, and the two remaining R-27ER turn away from the correct intercept heading towards a chaff.

 

The correct behaviour for the missile when the lock is lost is to fly to the last known intercept point.

 

I hope this bug will be fixed.

 

I think the big underlying issue here is that in-game chaff effects radar guided missiles the way flares effect IR seeking missiles. A fox 1 lost to chaff against a target that never broke your track often flies through a specific chaff bundle the same way an IR missile would a flare. Your radar track never even looked degraded, but after that Fox-1 picks a chaff, you're never going to get it back.

 

Clearly that doesn't add up for semi-active radar guided missiles. In several different regards.

 

Interestingly, you see this the other direction as well, when an IR missile that had good tone fails in the last moment to track a low slow flanking target. As if IR tracking were somehow degraded by a slow notch.

 

Hard to say for sure. What's clear is the logical inconsistencies in the way many missiles behave.

 

We shan't get into the guidance updates an unsupported Fox-3 receives before the active seeker turns on. But in all fairness, there have been some major improvements made recently.

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DCS CM/CCM is just a dice roll with certain factors (for chaff aspect, range, etc) tweaking the probability, that's a fundamental problem. It's a binary "is it tracking the chaff or the target", with no chance of reacquiring if the dice rolls in favor of it being decoyed, which just isnt how this stuff works IRL. I can't count how many NEZ ERs I have fired that just missed because the guy flew in a lazy 3g turn through the notch and happened to be dropping chaff.

Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

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Intel Xeon W3680 (i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 24 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg

 

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