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[REPORTED]MIG 29S has huge bounce on landing


H-var

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Edited by H-var

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  • 8 months later...

MIG 29S has huge bounce on landing

 

The aircraft will bounce a lot on landing. 5 - 20 meters in the air like a basketball.

Seems like the landing gear needs new dampeners :smilewink:

 

 

Same problem as the MIG 29A etc. Don't know about the MIG29G, assuming the same there.


Edited by Ducksen
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The aircraft will bounce a lot on landing. 5 - 20 meters in the air like a basketball.

Seems like the landing gear needs new dampeners :smilewink:

 

You just need more practice :) .. here is an emergency landing with almost zero fuel, in spite of landing quite fast it doesnt bounce:

 

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As already mentioned, if you are bouncing, your vertical speed is too high. For most people this is due to being too high across the threshold. The instruction is to level off roughly 3/4 of a meter above the runway and, then, land. In practice, this means being level at 2 meters on the HUD's radar altimeter. From there, it's almost impossible NOT to keep the nose, etc, under control.

 

Here's a rough example, though I abbreviated the leveling off period:

 

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Hey, thanks for the quick response people!

Well I am doing it like on both your two videos and big bounce happens. I will try more later when I have time and experiment a bit.

 

 

For the record, if inn fact my landings are to hard, I would rather the gear break and bellyflopp the aircraft than to bounce. The physics I am seeing on my end is really supernatural. It is like a cartoon. I am only missing the boing, boing boing sounds. One bounce leeds to another and ends up beeing nose gear first with a bounce and rear gear flipps nose forward again and again. It looks like a galloping giddy steed. Talk about horsepower :)

I could probably jump over a SA10 Clam Shell (CS) radar if things where lined up perfectly.

 

 

 

 

 

I land; SU25, SU25T, F15C, SU27, SU33 on land and carrier, A10A, A10C, FA18C on land and carrier, F14B on land and carrier, F5, Mig21bis. Probably more I can not think of now.

Point is, None of them act any where near this.

Anyway...

 

 

 

Like I said, I will experiment more. Valued the response and feedback.


Edited by Ducksen
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I would rather the gear break and bellyflopp the aircraft than to bounce. The physics I am seeing on my end is really supernatural. It is like a cartoon. I am only missing the boing, boing boing sounds. .

Are you sure that the behavior your experiencing is unrealistic cartoon like?

 


Edited by bbrz

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Are you sure that the behavior your experiencing is unrealistic cartoon like?

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. Esp useful for those who are far detached from real life aviation (us armchair pilots namely). :thumbup:

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At both videos in this thread the aircraft bounced, but that's kinda how mig-29 lands.

 

It's not how the 29 lands, it's how you land her. ;) There's a difference.

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Reported many times. That you can land it smoothly does not solve the problem with simulation of bad landing.

 

OP did not ask how to land. It's a bug report. Pity a poor one.

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Are you sure that the behavior your experiencing is unrealistic cartoon like?

 

 

OP, the 29 has very specific landing envelope compared to most. You have two choices

#1 Land fast 300+ kmh (need plenty of runway)

#2 Land at proper 250ish kmh (need extreme precision & timing)

Landing fast is pretty easy. Landing ''properly'' requires great care and practice.

 

@Bbrz

I was clenched just watching that. I remember a MiG-15 video somebody showed once that was equally terrifying.

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Bounce is realistic, and its dangerous. It is basically PIO on the ground. You must watch your Vertical Velocity. It should no more then 5m/s, and best at 1 m/s . Your landing gross weight is important. Returning with no AG ordinance, no large AA missiles, just 2 X R-60M or R-73, your fuel should be less then 1500 kg. 1000 kg is optimal. 500 kg is too low, as you may not have enough for go around. Don't try to land with 2K kg of gas.

Also DO NOT SCRAPE BURNER CANS. If you over-rotate on T/O, or have too high of AOA on touchdown. Scraping the cans will cause a fire or some serious engine malfunction.

In Mig-29G, over-rotating and scraping on T/O cost me the port engine afterburner and 30% of max RPM on same motor.

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All landing techniqe aside. There is a serious abnormal physics bug to the landing of the MIG29.

I got a landing without the bounce. With highest possible load, and lightest possible wight. Good landings on both configurations.

 

So what is then the big deal?

 

I have narrowed it down to the nose gear. If you land purely on rear gear without nosegear contacting the ground before untill much later down the runway, then all seems normal.

 

So, I wanted to push the limit to find the bug. Because what I see on my end when it bounces is not normal, has NEVER happened in real life, and never will, ever.

I flew 560kph directly into a hilltop. Making sure to hit the nosegear only. The MIG29 bounces up and I gain approx 200m elevation. Nosegear and tire is intact. No damage.

Same in lesser scale if you land and let the nose gear come down early. Bounce is seriously unrealistic. Gaining approx 1 - 20 m elevation. Higher elevation if you really aim for it.

 

Rear gear performes normally, nosegear is the issue.

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Most likely intentional, the pilot aero brakes for a bit. Vertical descent being low and not slamming the nose wheel down is the way to do it. I’m sure it has happened in real life with this airframe but most pilots try to preserve their reputation and don’t share the videos:)

 


Edited by AeriaGloria

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AeriaGloria:

yes, the correct technique is shown in the video. I am amazed and you see it in many tutorials on YT, people are used to land on all three gears with eastern aircraft a lot (L-39, Mig-29, Su-27, Su-25, etc.), which is absolutely wrong. In flight training as per RL training manuals you are specifically taught to land on main landing gear only, aerobrake and gently put the nosewheel down as shown in the video. But anyway in training you got to fly familiarization flights (around 20) and 40-60 circuit flights in L-39, before you are allowed to go solo with L-39). So I also think it is a good practice to master MLG landings with low descent rate with L-39 (and of course other tasks) and then try to proceed to more complex aircraft.

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1. what I see on my end when it bounces is not normal, has NEVER happened in real life, and never will, ever.

 

2. I flew 560kph directly into a hilltop. Making sure to hit the nosegear only. The MIG29 bounces up and I gain approx 200m elevation. Nosegear and tire is intact. No damage.

 

3. Same in lesser scale if you land and let the nose gear come down early. Bounce is seriously unrealistic. Gaining approx 1 - 20 m elevation.

1. How do you know? Have you ever seen a MiG-29 landing nose gear first?

 

2. This must be one of the weirdest complaints ever. What's next? The vertical tail doesn't break off when I land inverted?

 

3. Have you even watched the video I've linked?

 

I don't know what kind of weird things you've tried to do. I even pushed the nose gear down after touchdown instead of letting it settle on its own and the MiG didn't bounce.

 

Btw, there's no 'rear' gear on any aircraft. It's main gear.

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The Mig 29 I feel is one of those jets in DCS that rewards a lot of fine control inputs especially when taking off and landing.

 

It took me a few attempts to get a landing smooth without any bounce or any oscilation of the nose moving up and down, I've found around 260/270 knots and being gentle with the flare will let the back wheels set down softly and stop the bounce, as the Russians like aircraft to be used in rougher airfields the front can feel very soft, so touching down too fast will cause the bounce.

 

As for the comment on it being a bug I wouldn't personally say it's a bug, just requires some fine adjustments on the control and a bit of practice on the stick. A bit like air to air refueling for the 1st time, you will screw it up a lot but with practice you get better :D DCS is a big learning experience constantly, I wouldn't have thought landing could be so tricky but it was fun to smooth that out.

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All landing techniqe aside. There is a serious abnormal physics bug to the landing of the MIG29.

I got a landing without the bounce. With highest possible load, and lightest possible wight. Good landings on both configurations.

 

So what is then the big deal?

 

I have narrowed it down to the nose gear. If you land purely on rear gear without nosegear contacting the ground before untill much later down the runway, then all seems normal.

 

So, I wanted to push the limit to find the bug. Because what I see on my end when it bounces is not normal, has NEVER happened in real life, and never will, ever.

I flew 560kph directly into a hilltop. Making sure to hit the nosegear only. The MIG29 bounces up and I gain approx 200m elevation. Nosegear and tire is intact. No damage.

Same in lesser scale if you land and let the nose gear come down early. Bounce is seriously unrealistic. Gaining approx 1 - 20 m elevation. Higher elevation if you really aim for it.

 

Rear gear performes normally, nosegear is the issue.

 

Have you sent in a bug report , with the track file? Thats more or less the only way to get things fixed.Discussion posts here are nice but change nothing.

If you could report it that would be great, even if the FC3 aircraft seem to receive little attention by ED lately.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Snappy

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Reluctant as I am to express a point of view - I recently flew one of the MiG-29 quick missions (an A/G one) having not flown it for years, and the landing went perfectly (having not looked at any manual or guide for this aircraft module for as long - so I landed it like I would any normal aircraft).

 

So if there's a landing bug, it must be intermittent. The mission was flown since the last release patch.

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Have you sent in a bug report , with the track file?

This is the right forum and thread to post one - as was already done. Track is in post #12 but people prefer to turn it into some landing tutorial thread, even when no one asked for advice. We got PFM to have the right simulation of both bad and good landings not SFM binary either crash or glue to the runway. Here the bad landing simulation is put into question, that's all. Instead of pasting another video of beautiful smooth landing please try to nose-poke the runway a few times and see how realistic it goes for you.

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Instead of pasting another video of beautiful smooth landing please try to nose-poke the runway a few times and see how realistic it goes for you.

Of course it should and it does bounce. I don't see the problem?

 

Even a heavy 777 can easily bounce a few times, even when touching down with the main gear first.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoK_dbLDfA0


Edited by bbrz

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Of course it should and it does bounce. I don't see the problem?

 

That's the most correct statement here.

 

In fact, you need to land the 29 within the correct parameters - like RL 29 pilots do - to avoid bouncing. Threads like this should never exceed one page considering that the answer was already given early on:

 

If you bounce you need to reduce the vertical speed before touchdown. No problems here.

 

Done.

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