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WINWING F/A-18C HOTAS 2019.11.11 RELEASE


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Very sorry for the delay! We want to do enough test before install to the box.

 

Pictures show:

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Websit:http://WWW.WINWING.CN

FULL METAL F/A-18 HOTAS MANUFACTURER

(Include F18 Joystick/Throttle/Grip/Panels)

FACEBOOK GROUP:https://www.facebook.com/groups/HOTAS/

OFFICIAL FACEBOOK :https://www.facebook.com/winwing.cn/

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At this time Winwing you should be posting this photo and stating that the first batch of HOTAS sets was already sent to the costumers and you are ready to send the second batch starting today.

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Edited by Guram
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Hello

 

 

So somehow I got my money back from paypal, but I didn't canceled the order. Where can I pay the order again? Looked on their website but didn't find anything.

Would be good when next time the announce something like this via E-Mail.

 

 

Thank you


Edited by memoric
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As far as I know, Paypal gives us 180 days from the date of the transaction to open a dispute, so I will wait until that time, but will not pass the deadline as I am not really sure how they will act after we are left without PayPal protection.

 

at least they showed us very incompetent business management, as they got our money they now don't care about communication and explanation of what is going on. remember when there was an advertisement period how active this Winwing guy was and now silence, hmmm

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Based on my experiences with PayPal, knowing that I use PayPal every month, I have had conflicts with a handful of sellers in the past and I won all my cases through PayPal, which I share here as the following :

No matter when we placed our order, the seller has not fulfilled his obligations or commitments in compliance with what he defined at the first place toward the buyers whom we are. Even if we had received the good and it did not meet our expectations, we still had the right, we were entitled to open a dispute through PayPal and PayPal must to protect us (buyers). this also applies to the seller, if the customer abuses, then I don't see how we can be wrong, I don't think that a delay or a deadline in our case could prevent us to open a dispute since we( the customer) had placed our orders with the seller and the seller, by multiple apologies, has postponed the delivery time not once but a few times and put the customers in a state of perpetual confusion and in a situation of total darkness by his long silence .

as my understanding, the product was not salable as-is condition because of a lot of imperfections. the product was tried by the reviewer was imperfect, none of them was fully satisfied this because of lack of experience on the part of the seller/manufacturer who now tries to recapture its imperfections, alist of this imperfection all already published.

So it's up to us to make the decision whether or not to keep our order, but if we decide to cancel it, PayPal, Winwing must do everything to pay back any of us, as quickly as possible without any additional costs, whatsoever


Edited by gholi
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I did as well and haven't heard anything. I want to and if they communicate am ready to give them my money, but until I see them actually deliver something and actively communicate, I just can't at ~$950 to start.

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How come there have been no reviews? The unboxing videos arrived one month ago, and the reviewers said they will take about two weeks to properly test the whole set...

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=winwing&sp=CAI%253D

 

Since then, nothing. Have the reviewers been told to wait with their conclusions after they receive the repaired elements of the setup?

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They have not been told to hold anything, but it takes a couple weeks of using the product to get a valid opinion, then a couple weeks to write the review, film it, edit it. At the same time, the reviewers have real lives they need to live.. I would expect reviews to start flowing out pretty soon. Jabbers has said has written his, and needs time to get it all together, and i believe C6 has 3 different people that needed stick time to compile their review. Others have been silent so far.

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OK, I've held out for a while on talking about this, but here is the deal from my side of the fence.

 

I'm at a standstill on this review and here is why. We (the reviewers) were given a version of the product that was intended for testing and feedback. I'm fairly certain some of the reviewers were not fully aware that while we were given the HOTAS for review, the hope was that we also gave feedback to fix issues that would possible occur before the production units went out to the pre-order customers. A long with this, it was assumed we would do reviews as well on the units we were given. Long story short, I have had quite a few issues with some of the equipment. I reported them to WINWING and supposedly they are fixed or mitigated in some fashion.

 

Now, where does this put me though for my review. Unfortunately, I can only review what I have in my hands. But, what I have I not only had issues with, but its also not the final product. Now WINWING claims these issues were address, and maybe they are. But I can't tell you for certain one way or another, and I can't be sure that these fixes didn't cause some other issue as a side effect. So, from my point of view, doing a review became silly. I would be reviewing a product in a state that is not what is going to be received by the pre-order (or future) customers. So, I'm not sure what to do. I've expressed all of this to WINWING and will let them make a decision on the direction they want to take (I even offered to return all of the products to them).

 

It is true I wrote my review, its ~11 pages long, I've spent time taking over 300 detailed photos, spent about 10-12 hours taking various A and B roll footage, have roughly 150+ hours of time playing DCS,IL2,BMS, etc with the HOTAS to get some usage out of it, I've torn the stick, base and throttle apart multiple times for various shots and adjustments... it has been a long process and I was nearly to a point where I was going to produce a video. Then, one final problem happened that made me throw in the towel. The problem wasn't a show stopper but the accumulation of it all was. Because of the price of this product, the depth I go into when reviewing products, and the number of components involved in this review....I have spent more time on this review than any other product I've ever reviewed. So, it really is heartbreaking to want to give up on it.

 

Now, this isn't to say the product is bad, or WINWING is a bad company. I am not at all advocating such things. Most companies new to this or really any industry have teething issues, and that's what a lot of this feels like to me. But, having reviewers be the testers of the product is just wrong. Maybe I should have said no, done the review and moved on, but that's also not how I like to do things. I love the idea of giving feedback especially in a niche community like this. I feel it helps everyone.

 

This niche can be hard to get into for vendor. A lot of people here for better or worse could be considered elitists. These people tend to have a strong voice and let everyone know their opinion and how if something isn't 100% perfect we should 100% discredit it. I've held off writing this because I don't really care for that style of opinion forming as is toxic and unforgiving and unnecessarily detrimental to a company in a niche market like this. With all my dealings with WINWING, it appears to me they are a hungry company. They are very open to feedback, not taking offense when given, and open to ideas I and other reviewers I know have offered. This is at the very least a good show of faith that they care, want to make something consumer driven and a real desire to succeed. Now before you say "They could have been putting on a show for you since you are reviewing their product" I've thought of this as well. I've experienced this in at least 1 other company, and this feels a lot more genuine, along with the fact that the feedback was immediately address says a lot.

 

Hopefully this helps clear the air as to my own lack of review video... I may or may not do a video update on this in the future, but I am currently awaiting a response from WINWING.

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I placed my pre-order back on July 10th. On the one hand, it's awesome that the reviewers have had contact with WinWing throughout the whole process. But I think it definitely makes it impossible to write a review without bias on unfinished hardware that isn't even the same as the customers get.

 

Furthermore, as nice as the response seems to be from WinWing to the reviewers, it's been a total opposite from a customer standpoint. We're constantly told shipping is just a week away, or it'll be ready at day X. And then silence follows for a month until we get another update. Except for vague posts of things are being worked on. I'm sure the product is going to turn out great, but WW really, really need to hire an English speaking PR guy who is forthcoming and honest with realistic expectations for ship dates. It's better for a new entrant in the space to under promise and over deliver. What we have seen is the complete opposite, and leaves a sense of distrust and questions. I've spent over $1K on this HOTAS back in July for a product that was supposed to ship in August.

 

At this time, I can't tell you when it will ship. Supposedly it's soon, but realistically, who knows.

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Now, this isn't to say the product is bad, or WINWING is a bad company. I am not at all advocating such things. Most companies new to this or really any industry have teething issues, and that's what a lot of this feels like to me. But, having reviewers be the testers of the product is just wrong. Maybe I should have said no, done the review and moved on, but that's also not how I like to do things. I love the idea of giving feedback especially in a niche community like this. I feel it helps everyone.

 

Excellent post Jabbers. And thank you for providing the update. Indeed, it was my impression from the unboxing video and other reports that the HOTAS - as it stood - had taken a very different engineering approach to the competition. Some of the ideas where good, some perhaps not done before because there were side-effects / problems. I really wish Winwing every success and I hope that they are able to turn this HOTAS into a mature and high quality alternative to the incumbent suppliers. Having an additional high end option can only be positive for the community.

 

However, I also agree with other comments regarding the exceptionally poor communication with Winwing. It would be somewhat different if this was a Beta test product before any orders had been taken. But the situation is that people were promised a completed product many months ago. And the company has been silent.

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WINWING F/A-18C HOTAS 2019.11.11 RELEASE

 

Ideally, testers shouldn’t do a review since there may be certain bias toward that particular product. I would imagine most testers of a product would want that product to do well and that is why they put in extra time and effort.

 

An impression, on the other hand, is a different story.

 

Anyway, it seems like this HOTAS isn’t quite ready for public at the moment. And that is fine as long as they are actively fixing the issues. I’d rather see a complete product than early access version. Remember this isn’t like DCS software where it can be patched easily. You do not want to own an early access hardware.

PC: 9900K/3090, 11700K/2080Ti, 8700K/1080.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero

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