New Pay Model

[Northstar98]

Hi all

 

This thread has nearly run its course :)

 

We have no plans to change our pay model.

 

Please keep the topic on DCS and not other sims

 

thanks

 

Victory! :worthy:

Edited June 18, 2020 by Northstar98

[Vertigo72]

Im not going to keep replying to every objection as most of them I already explained. But Ill reply to this:

 

Okay, you keep bringing up "Millions of customers", tell me Vertigo, if there is a userbase that large interested in full-fidelity military aircraft, don't you think they'd be over here?

 

If ED offered a cessna 172 in DSC as free module in stead of the TF51, you think millions would be playing it? If so, I think they missed a trick there.

 

you may be too young to remember how MS single-handedly turned a tiny niche market (PC flight sims) in to market of 10s of millions of copies when they launched the original flight simulator and subsequent MS combat flight simulators.

 

There where others who did it before MS did. Some arguably did it better. I played Falcon 1.0 in EGA graphics. Chuck Yeagers aircombat. Then microsoft came along and steamrolled the market AND, made it 10, 100x larger. Why werent all those people interested in (combat) flight sims playing Chuck Yeagers aircombat before? There are many reasons, like marketing budget and arguably better execution or more user friendly or whatever, but it boils down to being made by microsoft.

 

FS2020 IMO is going to be even bigger event than the original. The original allowed people to fly. cool, they could already do that with other sims if flying on PC is what they wanted. This one will allow them to fly over their own house, their own city, the place they go on holiday, their own school yard in full 3d. See it in detail that even google maps does not offer. In VR. Its going to be every bit as disruptive as the original.

 

And even if only 1% of the people that MS will (re)-introduce to flight sims will have any interest in flying a military jet, and then being able to shoot something or drop some bombs, it will be a bigger market than DCS is or is likely to ever become.

[schmiefel]

Hi all

 

This thread has nearly run its course :)

 

We have no plans to change our pay model.

 

Please keep the topic on DCS and not other sims

 

thanks

 

 

Thanks!:thumbup:

[schmiefel]

@Vertigo72 again you should simple check the facts (again Wikpedia helps getting those facts together as not only the release years you compare are not correct) before you start instructing others how the world (should) work like in your mindset.

 

 

Edit: But as mentioned by BigNewy those things have basically nothing to do with DCS and the topic over here

Edited June 18, 2020 by schmiefel

[Northstar98]

Im not going to keep replying to every objection because I can't.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

If ED offered a cessna 172 in DSC as free module in stead of the TF51, you think millions would be playing it? If so, I think they missed a trick there.

 

Certainly sounds like an aircraft that someone interested in full-fidelity military aircraft would be interested in. I mean, not sure it fits on our current theatres, but sure why not, there are several people on here interested in non-military aircraft (myself included), because DCS is superior, at actually simulating flight.

 

And if they missed a trick offering a free aircraft, that would make them money how exactly?

 

Plus, you're on the verge of committing an equivocation. DCS World tailors to a very specific niche. Other flight simulators cater to a more ambiguous, but larger niche, there are features in DCS World, that make it more unsuitable for the large majority of that larger niche, namely a world map, lots of improvements to weather and radio communication. However, what it loses with that IMO it makes up for with features that make DCS cater specifically to the full-fidelity modern combat aircraft niche, and MSFS2020 doesn't.

 

you may be too young to remember how MS single-handedly turned a tiny niche market (PC flight sims) in to market of 10s of millions of copies when they launched the original flight simulator and subsequent MS combat flight simulators.

 

Ahh yes, Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator, focused on WWII I see, wonder what it's legacy is today? Oh right, nothing. The last one was released 2 decades ago, with Microsoft essentially completely abandoning the genre and they've never touched modern aircraft. I wonder who are the main players in that arena now?

 

Hint: ED is one of them.

 

...but it boils down to being made by microsoft.

 

Yes, Microsoft is the messiah, that's why they were completely overtaken in combat flight simulators by literally everybody else still here, oh wait, no it doesn't. And they've never done a flight simulator focused on modern, military aircraft. So again you're ignoring the niche DCS currently and naturally lends itself to, and that MSFS2020 does not. But because you can't argue that point, you're going to subtly equate the 2.

 

I mean, why are you playing DCS again?

 

FS2020 IMO is going to be even bigger event than the original. The original allowed people to fly. cool, they could already do that with other sims if flying on PC is what they wanted. This one will allow them to fly over their own house, their own city, the place they go on holiday, their own school yard in full 3d. See it in detail that even google maps does not offer. In VR. Its going to be every bit as disruptive as the original.

 

Yes you're excited, as am I, though I'm not sure shilling it on a competitors forum is a great thing to do - I am now understanding why rule 1.15 is a thing.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Northstar98

[Red Dragon-DK]

Hi all

 

This thread has nearly run its course :)

 

We have no plans to change our pay model.

 

Please keep the topic on DCS and not other sims

 

thanks

 

+1 :thumbup:

[Silver_Dragon]

From my estimation P3D is basically a mod of FSX, it's not completely different, P3D was built off of FSX. Because they share an identical base, developing addons that are compatible for both is a lot easier.

 

Sorry by the offtopic, but only informative:

 

P3D coming from Microsoft® ESP™ (ESP), a commercial visual simulation development platform, paralel to FSX. In fact, Flight Simulator X was not designed or licensed for any commercial use.

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/8da2cb1d-f949-4092-a21e-303c33df7bd5/what-is-the-difference-between-microsoft-esp-and-the-games-products-you-produce?forum=ESP

 

Microsoft sell them to Loockeed Martin and 2009 and was builder under that system.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Silver_Dragon

[Northstar98]

Sorry by the offtopic, but only informative:

 

P3D coming from Microsoft® ESP™ (ESP), a commercial visual simulation development platform, paralel to FSX. In fact, Flight Simulator X was not designed or licensed for any commercial use.

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/8da2cb1d-f949-4092-a21e-303c33df7bd5/what-is-the-difference-between-microsoft-esp-and-the-games-products-you-produce?forum=ESP

 

Microsoft sell them to Loockeed Martin and 2009 and was builder under that system.

 

Meh, I'm happy for anybody to fact check me.

 

But even so, it still goes to show the reason why the 2 are basically inherently compatible with each other.

 

My point still stands that no single addon/module/whatever has ever been made for 2 fundamentally different software without requiring at least a major redo.

[Vertigo72]

Aw maaaaan; just when you guys convinced me making a high fidelity military simulation based on FS2020 is stupid, impossible and will never happen, I see this:

 

https://www.vrsimulations.com/rhino.php

 

Tacpack and F18-F rhino, the follow up to their F18E superbug module, are being developed for FS2020 with an ETA somewhere in 2021.

 

WTF?

 

Those 2 guys think they can do it. In less than 10 years even. Silly buggers. What do they know, right, you guys here are the experts. Its not like they already sold combat enabling FS mods and high fidelity F18 modules to the military. If they had even tried, they would know its not possible and no one cares.

 

So other module developers will see the folly and not bother implementing tacpack API to weaponize their military FS2020 planes. I mean, sure, some did it for tacpack on FSX/P3D, but none of them will any sell modules for FS2020 because, well, they just wont, its a civilian sim with bad weather. Just look at those screenshots, it rains and snows and freezes like all the time. We want icing on our cake, not on our wings or cockpits.

 

It may have iceland and every other patch of land on the planet in 3D, but who even wants to fly over iceland? I bet even icelanders dont. That volcano could blow up again. What people really want is clear blue skies and beaches. Paying extra for endless tiny brown desert map modules and waiting forever for playable VR framerates. ED clearly has nothing to worry about.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Vertigo72

[Gentoo87]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:42 PM, MacEwan said:

I've been seeing some people mention lately that they might prefer a Subscription based pay model since it might provide more incentive for the development team to focus more on core features/bugs and on finishing modules that seem to be eternally stuck in Early Access.

 

While I had initially never considered this, and at first I didn't like the idea, I found myself starting to warm up to it the more i thought about it. I wonder what the masses think about this idea.

 

Would you prefer a Subscription based model if it meant more focus could be dedicated to core features/bugs and on getting modules into feature complete states quicker?

I recently opened a thread on this.

My idea falls along the lines of "make the subscription a choice" 

For me my subscription option wouldn't be to connect to servers or get free planes. I would like to contribute to ED's bottom line as an investor. 

Don't take away a buyers decision to purchase a module and go about there day. 

847 people replied to this post. 

147 +25 said yes Extra 20k in free money per year @ 10/month for development in this small pool of people.
739 just wish to purchase modules. 





 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Gentoo87

[LucShep]

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

[Belphe]

I love DCS and I strongly believe that the feeling is mutual. It keeps spoiling me by fulfilling my childhood dreams and creating emotions I never thought were possible at my age. Our relationship has its ups and downs but I'm generally very happy.

Unfortunately, the very same reason we all adore DCS for - realism, could become its doom. We are inevitably getting close to a moment where no new "blockbuster" platforms could be introduced. I know that Cold War era presents many opportunities but I also believe that e.g. the Viper (being a modern 4th Gen aircraft) attracted more interest and generated more income for ED than e.g. the Sabre.

At the same time, the ground units' logic, behaviour and interactivity become more and more lacking as we demand "a living battlefield". Improvements are required to older elements of the SIM to match both our expectations as well as the capabilities of the newly introduced platforms. It only seems reasonable to think that those updates should come free of charge. And that creates a problem because smaller potential to release "hot" rides and more "housekeeping" to do for free are a terrible business model.

And what if DCS had a monthly subscription? I mean, we spend thousands on fake aircraft gear and aviator glasses! Would e.g. a $10 be too much to ask? ED could better predict their budget and focus more on upgrading the SIM's overall standard instead of chasing new aircraft to build and charge us for. At the same time, we could be more demanding and expect stable flow of general quality of life improvements. Of course, new aircraft and map modules could still cost extra but we would at least be sure that our SIM is safe and work continues on making it even better.

I know that many of you will hate this idea but please try be reasonable. We truly have something special here and we should do our best to preserve it. On the other hand, there are many "Sunday Fliers" among us that would probably not be willing to pay but we have many options available here (MP access, switching modules on and off, etc.). Let's have a polite discussion! I'm curious what you all think.

[Vakarian]

How about no? This was "discussed" many times before, it always revolves around few different points and ends with one of ED members coming in, saying they won't change their business model and that's it. 

Little forum search would have found you this in a no time if what you are truly interested are opinions of the people.

[Belphe]

3 minutes ago, Vakarian said:

How about no? This was "discussed" many times before, it always revolves around few different points and ends with one of ED members coming in, saying they won't change their business model and that's it. 

Little forum search would have found you this in a no time if what you are truly interested are opinions of the people.

People change, as well as their options. Some also grow up. Thanks for your input.

[BIGNEWY]

16 minutes ago, Belphe said:

I love DCS and I strongly believe that the feeling is mutual. It keeps spoiling me by fulfilling my childhood dreams and creating emotions I never thought were possible at my age. Our relationship has its ups and downs but I'm generally very happy.

Unfortunately, the very same reason we all adore DCS for - realism, could become its doom. We are inevitably getting close to a moment where no new "blockbuster" platforms could be introduced. I know that Cold War era presents many opportunities but I also believe that e.g. the Viper (being a modern 4th Gen aircraft) attracted more interest and generated more income for ED than e.g. the Sabre.

At the same time, the ground units' logic, behaviour and interactivity become more and more lacking as we demand "a living battlefield". Improvements are required to older elements of the SIM to match both our expectations as well as the capabilities of the newly introduced platforms. It only seems reasonable to think that those updates should come free of charge. And that creates a problem because smaller potential to release "hot" rides and more "housekeeping" to do for free are a terrible business model.

And what if DCS had a monthly subscription? I mean, we spend thousands on fake aircraft gear and aviator glasses! Would e.g. a $10 be too much to ask? ED could better predict their budget and focus more on upgrading the SIM's overall standard instead of chasing new aircraft to build and charge us for. At the same time, we could be more demanding and expect stable flow of general quality of life improvements. Of course, new aircraft and map modules could still cost extra but we would at least be sure that our SIM is safe and work continues on making it even better.

I know that many of you will hate this idea but please try be reasonable. We truly have something special here and we should do our best to preserve it. On the other hand, there are many "Sunday Fliers" among us that would probably not be willing to pay but we have many options available here (MP access, switching modules on and off, etc.). Let's have a polite discussion! I'm curious what you all think.

Thank you for flying with us for so long and supporting our work, we do appreciate it. We are working hard on many new things in DCS and always will, DCS has no end goal currently, we continue to update, progress and add new content and features, we have now reached our 15 years anniversary bringing great combat flight sim entertainment to thousands of users and we continue to grow.

I have merged your thread with another about subscription, it has been discussed many times before but we have no plans to change our payment model, what we currently have has kept DCS going and advancing for many years already, we feel it is the best option for DCS. 

kind regards

bignewy
Associate producer

[Hiob]

@Belphe

When there is one curse of modern living, it is fricking subscription model everywhere....... So, no thanks!

I'm completely aware that ED is a business and needs to make money to keep the lights on - and I'm fine with everything they think to seem fit for that purpose.

But please stop with those unsolicited ideas nobody asked for!

Edited January 18 by Hiob

[Slippa]

36 minutes ago, Hiob said:

When there is one curse of modern living, it is fricking subscription model everywhere....... So, no thanks!

Bang on.

(that’ll be £6.50 a month for twelve months, just for commenting. Thanks for your custom and your data I’ll now be selling, pleasure doing business with you).

I hate it and it’s everywhere.

[Evoman]

I will now hopefully close this thread with the previous post that was perfectly fitting.