tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 So I bought the Viper on pre order but have not done anything with it until recently. Figured I would fly the thing around in preparation for the big update. My first impression is wow, this thing handles like a school bus. I was expecting a sports car, but compared to the Hornet it just seems so sluggish, especially in the roll axis. In comparison, the Hornet feels very precise, requiring minimal stick deflection to get an expected result. The Viper (for me anyway) seems to require a great deal more stick movement and just feels slow to respond. I'm using a CH fighterstick with no curves or dead zones of any kind (same with Hornet). Is this a "me" problem or is anyone else have the same impression? Maybe my expectations of just throwing this thing around were too optimistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpoetic6 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think its you. This thing turns like hell. Make sure you're not in CAT 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harker Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 The FLCS seems to operate non-linearly. I also run with zero curves (Warthog side-stick) and I find that it goes from "low gain" to "high gain", depending on the deflection. Once you get used to it though, it's OK and it can turn on a dime. I also find the Hornet more controllable btw, but I use a center mounted stick for it, with an extension, so it could very well be that. I remember reading somewhere that you'd need a force sensing grip, like the real thing, to be able to get the proper feel, since the FLCS operates with that in mind. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomTOTEN Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 In every DCS module I own, I have a 15% saturation curvature for my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. The DCS:F-16C Blk. 50 is the sole exception. It's really designed around having 0 axis curvature. Think about the difference in real world stick travel vs your desktop stick. Take your curves out for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think its you. This thing turns like hell. Make sure you're not in CAT 3. Yep, little race car she is :) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think its you. This thing turns like hell. Make sure you're not in CAT 3. I'm sure it's just my perception of what it was going to feel like doesn't mesh with reality. Definitely in CAT 1 (is that even implemented at this point?) It will certainly turn, just seems to take a lot of stick to get it there. Maybe a center sprung stick would feel different. There seems to be a delay between stick movement and control response, especially evident in the roll axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 The FLCS seems to operate non-linearly. I also run with zero curves (Warthog side-stick) and I find that it goes from "low gain" to "high gain", depending on the deflection. Once you get used to it though, it's OK and it can turn on a dime. I also find the Hornet more controllable btw, but I use a center mounted stick for it, with an extension, so it could very well be that. I remember reading somewhere that you'd need a force sensing grip, like the real thing, to be able to get the proper feel, since the FLCS operates with that in mind. Guess i'm not used to how the FLCS reacts to stick movement. I was expecting it to be like the Hornet. It just feels disconnected if that makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will- Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) nope its just how it is, how they simulated it. which is a prime example of, i don't get the whole simulation, things need to work how they do in irl. Just simulate it- but thats a different topic. you should of flown the 16 on release day, it was a rocket and they gave us unlimited fuel, now that's all "simulated". the f16 i have no axis curves. all other dcs planes (f18.) i use a 3 deadzone, 15 curve on joystick, so really im "simulating" a different pitch roll as how it would work irl... who knows. Edited November 22, 2019 by will- Intel i9-9900K 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080tiftw3, Windows 10, 1tb 970 M2, TM Warthog, 4k 144hz HDR g-sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Guess i'm not used to how the FLCS reacts to stick movement. I was expecting it to be like the Hornet. It just feels disconnected if that makes sense. Sorry for this simple explanation/guess: I think the "problem" is that you use physical stick movement in the F-18 to steer the jet but in the F-16 you use force(the stick moves barely). But unless you have a force sensing stick you have to move the stick further to "emulate" a stronger force, thats how i understand it. This would explain why you feel that the F-16 behaves "strange" compared to the F-18. Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1 System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenkom Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 A little negative curvature made her feel snappier for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strikeeagle345 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Boy, what airliners have you been flying? 1 Strike USLANTCOM.com i7-9700K OC 5GHz| MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON | 32GB DDR4 3200 | GTX 3090 | Samsung SSD | HP Reverb G2 | VIRPIL Alpha | VIRPIL Blackhawk | HOTAS Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Maybe someone with a force-sensing stick can chime in and say how it feels? Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 Sorry for this simple explanation/guess: I think the "problem" is that you use physical stick movement in the F-18 to steer the jet but in the F-16 you use force(the stick moves barely). But unless you have a force sensing stick you have to move the stick further to "emulate" a stronger force, thats how i understand it. This would explain why you feel that the F-16 behaves "strange" compared to the F-18. can't imagine there are too many home cockpit force sensing sticks out there. How would you even simulate that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 A little negative curvature made her feel snappier for me. Huh. Never thought of that. have to give that a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomTOTEN Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 can't imagine there are too many home cockpit force sensing sticks out there. How would you even simulate that? ...sigh http://realsimulator.com/html/fssb_r3_warthog.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Hi! The FLCS seems to operate non-linearly. If FLCS is properly implemented, this is normal. F-16 FLCS has built-in "curves". Regards. ASUSTeK ROG MAXIMUS X HERO / Intel Core i5-8600K (4.6 GHz) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FE 12GB / 32GB DDR4 Ballistix Elite 3200 MHz / Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB / Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W Platinum / Windows 10 Home 64-bit / HOTAS Cougar FSSB R1 (Warthog grip) / SIMPED / MFD Cougar / ViperGear ICP / SimShaker JetPad / Track IR 5 / Curved LED 27'' Monitor 1080p Samsung C27F396 / HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 ...sigh http://realsimulator.com/html/fssb_r3_warthog.html no pricing on the website usually means it's out of my price range. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosmonkey Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 I guess the bottom line is that it feels different because it is different and it's just something I have to get used to. I'll keep at it. Maybe it will grow on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZG_Immel Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 can't imagine there are too many home cockpit force sensing sticks out there. How would you even simulate that? I have one. from real simulator. makes flying the viper easier than the centerstick I use for the hornet [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harker Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Hi! If FLCS is properly implemented, this is normal. F-16 FLCS has built-in "curves". Regards.Yeah, I read about that. Also has different gains during normal flight, different with the gear down, different with the AAR door open etc. It's very useful, just feels different than other planes. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Panther= Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Verify your AAR door is closed, either by looking at the switch on the fuel panel, or checking the right indexer lights, to the right side of the HUD. If you see the blue NWS while in the air, your door is opened. This means the aircraft is in landing gains, and will be sluggish...yes this is modeled. I have the FSSB and the jet is pretty snappy especially in the roll axis. Twitch Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster Z390 Aorus Xtreme, i9 9900k, G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB, 1080ti 11GB, Obutto R3Volution, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, TPR, Cougar MFDs, FSSB R3L, JetSeat, Oculus Rift S, Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC, F/A-18C UFC, Tek Creations F-16 ICP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harker Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Verify your AAR door is closed, either by looking at the switch on the fuel panel, or checking the right indexer lights, to the right side of the HUD. If you see the blue NWS while in the air, your door is opened. This means the aircraft is in landing gains, and will be sluggish...yes this is modeled. I have the FSSB and the jet is pretty snappy especially in the roll axis.Which version? Is it easy to set up etc? I'm considering it. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZG_Immel Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Which version? Is it easy to set up etc? I'm considering it. I own the old FSSB R1 that I bought for my cougar at the time. I can use it with the cougar stick, or the warthog stick. I considered upgrading to their latest version before the viper was out, but I can see that my old R1 works just fine setting it up requires nothing special. [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax37 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 I have a force sensing stick, the FSSB R3, and the Viper is reaaaaally heavy and requires very high inputs to perform. Flying any other DCS aircraft, like the Hornet or Tomcat, they are much lighter on the stick and very agile. DCS F-16 is NOT agile in comparison. Reading the real flight manual it should only require a very light pitch input to rotate during takeoff, in DCS I have to pull a substantial amount just to get the nose wheel of the ground. Also it takes forever to attain high G-loads. The real aircraft should have a VERY high onset rate. This is Early Access, but this is something I hope they are working on. Regards, Jax "Dogfight: He who pulls the stick most violently shall win" [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] FSSB R3 Warthog - Cougar TUSBA - TPR - Valve Index - AW3418DW i7-6700K OC @4.9GHz - ASUS RTX 2080Ti - Trident Z CL14 32GB 3200MHz - M.2 950 PRO 512GB + MP510 1920 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZG_Immel Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 I have a force sensing stick, the FSSB R3, and the Viper is reaaaaally heavy and requires very high inputs to perform. Flying any other DCS aircraft, like the Hornet or Tomcat, they are much lighter on the stick and very agile. DCS F-16 is NOT agile in comparison. Reading the real flight manual it should only require a very light pitch input to rotate during takeoff, in DCS I have to pull a substantial amount just to get the nose wheel of the ground. Also it takes forever to attain high G-loads. The real aircraft should have a VERY high onset rate. This is Early Access, but this is something I hope they are working on. Regards, Jax I do not understand your issue. If you feel like you need to apply too much force with the Viper and the R3, compared to other planes, just go into your DCS settings and make the curves steeper and shorter for the viper roll and pitch axis. You don't even need to mess with the R3 calibration. [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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