Looking into my first Expansion.. What do you like about the Viggen?

[Bartacomus]

What makes it your favorite? What makes it worth purchasing.

 

i do fly the A10, and love it. I cant afford the 14, or the 16 or the 18.

so im trying to strike while the half off is here.

[Airhunter]

It's a very unique plane and different from anything else. Despite the bugs and lack of some things (which should be included by the end of the year) it is a very fun and capable module in most areas. Has all the low level speed and climbs like a homestick angel.

[Rudel_chw]

What makes it your favorite? What makes it worth purchasing.

 

i do fly the A10, and love it. I cant afford the 14, or the 16 or the 18.

so im trying to strike while the half off is here.

 

The Viggen is very different from the A-10, it is meant to be used on pre-planned strikes and thus isnt very suitable for Multiplayer use. For me it was a joy to learn, as I love the Cold war era and simpler aircrafts with primitive computers and HUDs.

 

When released, this video made me want to purchase it ... check it out so you can see if this is the mission type that you enjoy (or not):

 

ScE09SQRc4s

 

Another similar aircraft, but more for Interception, is the MiG-21 .. I've really enjoyed it too, as it has many of the same strong points as the Viggen.

[Bartacomus]

Yeah, i kinda like the intricate systems learning. I like the SOI/SPI system of the a10. And the fact it can compressor stall really snagged me.

 

idk (is it weird i would buy a module for its imperfections?)

 

i like the supersonic bit. but i fly "fast" mission, im not sure i could work 'interdiction' into that. Not without making the missions myself. but this is good, this is what im here to find out about.

 

i love the CAS and SEAD role of the Harrier.. but im not so sure about the Harriers air to air role.

 

So you guys like the MIG? over all? Air, Ground?

[statrekmike]

As others have said, the Viggen is very much a aircraft built around a certain set of specific mission types. For some, this will be a drawback since the plane will never, ever be a "jack of all trades". For others, this is a strength as it encourages you to explore the kinds of mission types the real Viggen pilots trained for.

 

Since you have the A-10C, I suppose it would be best to use that as a sort of reference point here. In the A-10C, your missions are generally going to involve going to a general area where you will either receive tasking from a JTAC/AFAC or you will be hunting for viable ground targets using your eyes and your various sensors. It is very much a target of opportunity kinda aircraft with all the features you need to quickly acquire and engage targets. Obviously the A-10C has other roles like CSAR or even light battlefield interdiction (attacking enemy supply, command, and other assets in order to impact their front line forces) but at the end of the day, you will always have a lot of options as to how you engage your targets and how you what is and what is not a target.

 

The Viggen is a the exact opposite. It has three major overall mission types that it will engage in. The first is ground attack. Unlike the A-10C, you are going to be largely attacking bigger static targets or clustered groups of enemy assets with a single pass. This attack is (more than likely) going to be carefully planned and with little room for deviation. You fly the route, drop your bombs/rockets/BK90's when required, and head back home. With poor mission design, this can be rather boring but a good mission maker can add a lot of interesting variables that make it rather tense, difficult, and exciting to even get to the target area, let alone get out in one piece.

 

The second job the Viggen can do is ELINT. You can fly missions where you essentially monitor radar signals. It is a pretty cool mission but it is one that requires a good mission maker and a player who is willing to find what is interesting about such a mission.

 

The third mission is anti-ship. The Viggen has a couple of anti-ship missiles that it can choose from with one being a very simple "point and shoot" affair while the other allows for some pretty intricate flight path planning. Either way, like ground attack, this mission is all about flying to a release point, firing, and going home. You can potentially "hunt" ships using the ground radar but it isn't as practical as flying a pre-planned attack.

 

As you probably noticed, the Viggen's missions all share a pretty common thread. They need to be carefully pre-planned. Unlike the A-10C, it is not going to be something you can just jump into and hunt down stuff at will, it's weapon system and its navigation system are deeply fused together to the point where it is impossible to properly deploy some weapons without having a planned target point ahead of time.

 

Now let's talk about some missions it REALLY isn't suited for despite some popular belief in the online flight sim/aviation enthusiast community.

 

The big elephant in the room is air to air. In real life, the Swedish air force used two very, very different versions of the Viggen to fill its air to air and air to ground roles respectively. The JA-37 is the air to air version and has a different engine compressor design, radar, avionics, and weapon selection to suit that job. The AJ-37 (the AJS version we have in DCS is a later upgrade) is the ground attack variant and is geared entirely for that job.

 

In practical DCS terms, this means that while the AJS-37 can carry Sidewinders, it is NOT a air to air platform and really shouldn't be considered as a viable option in such a mission. Like the A-10, it carries Sidewinders for desperate defensive situations and will not be much of a challenge to a committed air to air focused attacker. Even if you do survive into the merge and are able to "dogfight". You will quickly find that the compressor stalls and general maneuvering performance will be a problem right alongside the aircraft's lack of useful air to air avionics features.

 

The next thing it will struggle with is CAS. Since it is so dependent on pre-planned targets and since it isn't really set up to re-attack after its first pass, it is not really a good CAS platform. It can't really linger and thus can't offer meaningful long-term support. That being said. If you have a AFAC who is willing to talk you on to the target, you can be useful as one part of a CAS operation even if you only get a single pass worth of weapons.

 

There is a final topic to discuss. Since you have some time with the A-10C, you are used to a GPS/INS combination system that is unlikely to experience drift over time. The Viggen doesn't have a GPS system to keep its INS in check and as such, you will need to make sure that as you fly, you are aware of how your INS system works and how to use the variety of fixing methods to keep it where it needs to be. This is part of that carefully pre-planned route thing. Some missions won't really let you fly really low (where your navigation system can read elevation changes and compare them to a built-in database) when transiting to the target area and back. As such, you will need to plan a route that puts steerpoints over recognizable landmarks/terrain features that you can see with your eyes or your ground radar. From there, you can determine if your waypoint has drifted and can do a fix if required.

 

The Viggen is a great module but it is at its best when you use it the way it was intended to be used. It isn't the kind of thing you will have a lot of fun with unless you are willing to approach missions on its terms.

 

One final thing. You mentioned the Harrier. This is another thing where you should understand how this aircraft works in practice versus how some might approach it in a flight sim.

 

First and foremost. The Harrier we have in DCS is (like the A-10C and the Viggen) NOT a air to air platform. It has no radar to detect potential air threats outside weapon ranges. It lacks the speed required to escape attacking fighters. Even if you do survive into the merge (which a good attacker should not let happen when gunning for a Harrier), you won't really have a way to keep up with a attacker and your sidewinders are not going to be much of a help if you can't maintain range and position.

 

Next up, the SEAD capability. This is something that is VASTLY overstated by the community. The Sidearm missile is essentially a Sidewinder with a anti-radiation seeker and while this means that it can target search and tracking radars on the ground, it also means that it (like the Sidewinder) has a short range and will more often than not get easily outraged by anything but radar guided SPAAG's like a Shilka. Those that strap on the Sidearm and think that they are going to actually do SEAD missions will quickly find themselves floating gently to the ground via parachute after even the most basic radar guided SAM nails you well outside the Sidearm's useful range.

 

Like the Viggen, the Harrier is fantastic fun when used for the missions it actually would fly and not shoehorned into missions it simply isn't suited or equipped for.

[Bartacomus]

it's weapon system and its navigation system are deeply fused together to the point where it is impossible to properly deploy some weapons without having a planned target point ahead of time.

 

 

this. this i appreciate man. I dont mind attempting to wiggle craft into roles they arent suited for, but if its impossible to manage on the fly ill probably be better suited in the Harrier. I manage the Thunderbolt pretty well. It would seem this is a natural progression between Superiority and Warty CAS.

 

I really appreciate the time and effort guys. This is good stuff for someone interested in knowing.

 

Ive never flown in multiplayer, or taken a campaign. Fast mission is going service Harriers better than the Viggen and MiG21 then.

 

Much appreciated, shes being downloaded now. Excited!

[DarkStar79]

One more thing that makes the viggen stand out of all the modules. Is that in the kneeboard you can get preplanned targets you can engage. Its like the viggen have some intel on where some targets are and so on.

 

And also you have the roadbases for the Viggen wich is a cool feature. Wich makes so you can land on roads and also rearm there. And you can also order the roadbases to different spots on the map and so on...

 

The Viggen and the F14 is the modules i like the most in DCS.

[QuiGon]

The Viggen is very different from the A-10, it is meant to be used on pre-planned strikes and thus isnt very suitable for Multiplayer use.

For typical public multiplayer use that is. Flying Viggen coop multiplayer missions with a private group is awesome though ;)

[Mr_sukebe]

For typical public multiplayer use that is. Flying Viggen coop multiplayer missions with a private group is awesome though ;)

 

Agreed.

I think the biggest issue with the Viggen online are the strike mission targets.

Most of the online servers I've flown on require you to destroy military vehicles, which really requires precision strike weaponry. The Viggen is far better suited to destroying military bases, buildings, airfields and similar, which is a bit of a mindset issue for mission builders, as they should include more of these in their missions.

[QuiGon]

Agreed.

I think the biggest issue with the Viggen online are the strike mission targets.

Most of the online servers I've flown on require you to destroy military vehicles, which really requires precision strike weaponry. The Viggen is far better suited to destroying military bases, buildings, airfields and similar, which is a bit of a mindset issue for mission builders, as they should include more of these in their missions.

Indeed. DCS started as an A-10 simulator and ever since the vast majority of public online missions are CAS style missions. :(

[Katj]

I'm not saying it's a very good cas platform, but if you bring 4 mavericks you can fulfill that role reasonably well.

 

Range and loiter time are not bad if you fly at reasonable speed. Also you're not a sitting duck to enemy fighters, you can bug out with short notice, which is very good in MP. You sometimes hear a GCI calling out to an Su-25 that enemy fighters are closing in and they go something like "oh, so I'm going to die?" whereas in the Viggen you might respond "ok, tell me when I need to leave"

 

It's not a very good a2a fighter, but it's not that bad compared to other third generation jets. Compressor stalls are not really a problem if you keep your speed up, which is what the tufted duck (vigg in Swedish) likes anyway.

 

Oh, and it has reverse for awesome stol performance but more importantly you can always find a parking spot at even at a busy airport.

[randomTOTEN]

I like flying fast at very low level. I like using all the weapons and modes optimized for high speed low level attacks. "One pass, haul ass"

 

I like interacting with the CK37. Manually inputting coordinates, targets, TOT, fuel reserve, search area boundaries. Setting weapons profiles using obscure codes, rotary wheels, and switches in the cockpit. There are no menus for the CK37... it's very Apollo Guidance Computer.

 

The HUD is very minimalist. Just exactly what you'd need when doing M0.9 at 300m AGL/ 150m ASL and trying to avoid terrain/waves. But it shows all the information you need at the moment you need it. You'll look at other modules and realize how much of the information isn't necessary to be displayed 'right now.'

 

Flying low over the sea and seeing the far edge of radar returns and realizing that's the radar horizon, and if you climb it will increase. Using the horizon as terrain masking from enemy ship radar.

 

Individual controls are well designed, but when combined they create a somewhat clunky user interface.

 

For those of you that already fly the Viggen, realize the only two weapons that absolutely require a Target waypoint defined are the BK90 and RB-15F.

 

The Warthog is a Close Air Support aircraft. You'll see how the mission impacts it's design as you learn it.

 

The Viggen is a Battle Air Interdiction aircraft. Many things you thought in the Hog were A2G choices are actually CAS choices, and the Viggen will teach you that, while you learn more about the BAI mission.

 

Viggen has a good variety of weapons just like the Hog. They're fun to learn and use.

Edited November 25, 2019 by randomTOTEN

[Hawkeye_UK]

Only aircraft that actually makes you think properly about navigation - it also makes you plan attacks more like a real sortie with regard's to ingress / egress.

 

Only aircraft that has realistic radar fixes and ground radar. Its more realistic in that sense in terms of entering a target offset fix pre weapon's release (pre GPS days).

 

Only aircraft that has a data cartridge, again more like reality.

 

By far the best maritime strike platform in DCS.

 

Lastly flying it down on the deck at supersonic speeds down the vally's is just so much fun! I would recommend this module to anyone to buy it as its highly capable if studied/flown correctly for knocking out high value targets.

[Hawkeye_UK]

I like flying fast at very low level. I like using all the weapons and modes optimized for high speed low level attacks. "One pass, haul ass"

 

I like interacting with the CK37. Manually inputting coordinates, targets, TOT, fuel reserve, search area boundaries. Setting weapons profiles using obscure codes, rotary wheels, and switches in the cockpit. There are no menus for the CK37... it's very Apollo Guidance Computer.

 

The HUD is very minimalist. Just exactly what you'd need when doing M0.9 at 300m AGL/ 150m ASL and trying to avoid terrain/waves. But it shows all the information you need at the moment you need it. You'll look at other modules and realize how much of the information isn't necessary to be displayed 'right now.'

 

Flying low over the sea and seeing the far edge of radar returns and realizing that's the radar horizon, and if you climb it will increase. Using the horizon as terrain masking from enemy ship radar.

 

Individual controls are well designed, but when combined they create a somewhat clunky user interface.

 

For those of you that already fly the Viggen, realize the only two weapons that absolutely require a Target waypoint defined are the BK90 and RB-15F.

 

The Warthog is a Close Air Support aircraft. You'll see how the mission impacts it's design as you learn it.

 

The Viggen is a Battle Air Interdiction aircraft. Many things you thought in the Hog were A2G choices are actually CAS choices, and the Viggen will teach you that, while you learn more about the BAI mission.

 

Viggen has a good variety of weapons just like the Hog. They're fun to learn and use.

 

Whilst i always launch my RB15 with waypoints the above is incorrect they can be launched without using the radar to aquire targets and launching within parameters.

[randomTOTEN]

they can be launched without using the radar to aquire targets

I never said radar fixes were required. I said a target location was required. :thumbup:

 

Only aircraft that actually makes you think properly about navigation

I don't really understand what that means. Plenty of DCS aircraft make you "think properly about navigation." Many present more of a navigation challenge than the Viggen.

[Hawkeye_UK]

I never said radar fixes were required. I said a target location was required. :thumbup:

 

I don't really understand what that means. Plenty of DCS aircraft make you "think properly about navigation." Many present more of a navigation challenge than the Viggen.

 

You mentioned target "waypoint" in your original post above as in "For those of you that already fly the Viggen, realize the only two weapons that absolutely require a Target waypoint defined are the BK90 and RB-15F". A waypoint is not required

[randomTOTEN]

Oh jeez!

My bad Hawkeye.. I totally forgot about "Quick release" mode. I'm sorry (just checked the manual).

 

 

So.. there's only 1 weapon that requires anything to be programmed into CK37 then.... BK90

[JayBird]

[Eldur]

Indeed. DCS started as an A-10 simulator and ever since the vast majority of public online missions are CAS style missions. :(

 

Well, you can get scores for killing a tank, but not for busting a building and most servers probably still are airquake style with a fixed mission reload after a few hours (which is great when you join up like half an hour before that happens, there's no better way to waste time than that)

[Over_G]

Aesthetics.

 

I fell in love with this aeroplane long before she was introduced into the DCS. And it was a big surprise to me when she became available in this simulator. I love Viggen not for her performance or capabilities. What matters to me is the way she was designed.

 

Everything about Viggen gives me the same feelings, as watching classic Star Wars trilogy. I'm sure you find it odd, but this is just my very personal impression.

Watching videos with Viggens taxiing on a forest road reminds me X-wings taking off from Yavin IV. Flying low-level with pole track guidance in DCS gives me an impression of Death Star trench run.

 

Because of her shape with all those peculiarities like double delta wing, flaps on the canard (or the "upper wing"?), bogies, thrust reverser, splinter camouflage, and because of her cockpit with all those switches surrounded by circular white-on-black labelling printed in Swedish (foreign to me, but one of the most beautiful languages IMHO), elegantly placed MWS panels, those glowing buttons, afterburner lights, radar screen, and the most stylish instrument- simplistic HUD using lines and dots to display information, to me she looks more like a starfighter contemporary to T-65/TIE-Fighter from a galaxy far, far away, rather than a cold-war-era aeroplane from Earth.

 

Flying Viggen in the simulator gives me a great experience and knowledge about other ways of aircraft and avionics design and flying, than those I encounter in real life flying jets and props.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Over_G