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What does DCS have to sell?


killerwhale

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Planes are what DCS is all about.

 

Quite frankly I would rather they stick to that and keep the scope creep to a minimum.

 

Our dream is to offer the most authentic and realistic simulation of military aircraft, tanks, ground vehicles and ships possible.

 

From the DCS Website. This would also include CA. Improving CA would be a logical conclusion if you read the above quote.

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Something of an odd post on a forum for an aircraft simulator.

What were you expecting, tubs of Pecan and Vanilla fudge ice cream?

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An actual tank (and other ) internal “cockpit” views that works in VR would be a huge step forward. I could embrace that.


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People panic too much about ED changing their core talents. If a 3rd party dev were to roll up tomorrow and say, "We have talented artist, modeller, coder, documentation, a proven track record and a serving SME in a <insert vehicle here> chance are, if it fits and works, off they go and make it.

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People panic too much about ED changing their core talents. If a 3rd party dev were to roll up tomorrow and say, "We have talented artist, modeller, coder, documentation, a proven track record and a serving SME in a <insert vehicle here> chance are, if it fits and works, off they go and make it.

 

This. I think the only reason this isn't happening is because of the inherently crude nature of vics right now. If ED just lays the ground work they probably won't even have to make any themselves.

 

Btw, they requested docs on M1 Abrams a couple years ago, so it is a known FACT they at least have considered full sim vics.

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She needs a little love'n for sure.

 

 

It's still fun and I've had some huge air ground battles online that were very fun, when there are many online. I'm talking 4 to 5 on each side in Tac command jumping around, driving sam's and tanks. Shooting down player aircraft and tanks battles.

 

Or just playing around online too. Pulled off this shot online....:)

 

 

Now that would scare the crap out of you.:cry:


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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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Its called Digital Combat Simulator. It says nothing about aircraft in the title. It could very well be a tank simulator.

 

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Planes are what DCS is all about.

 

Quite frankly I would rather they stick to that and keep the scope creep to a minimum.

 

Do you know why you fly? You fly because your job is to support troops on the ground!

 

No airforce (or air arms) is never controlling the terrain or winning the war alone. The war is fought and won by the ground troops. And every airforce (or air arm) is there to support the ground troops. A airforce needs to defend itself against ground units (SAM, MANPADS, SPAAG) as well against other airforce (fighters, interceptors), so it can continue its main job = supporting ground troops (CAS, Strike, Bombing).

 

The Combined Arms is the cornerstone of the DCS (IMHO) because it is the module that will tie up all the ground units, sea units and air units (hence Combined Arms).

 

The Combined Arms is the module that is the only module that can actually generate and build up a complete war, or complete war scenario. As it is not just a "It is a tank simulator"! The CA is the RTS game. It is not for infantry simulator (a la ARMA) nor is it for tank simulator (a la Steel Beasts). What it can be is additional complex RTS game (a la Close Combat game series + Wargame game series + Combat Mission + Panzer Campaigns + Command series) and combine it with a "SAM Simulator" where ED would 3D model the majority of the Soviet Union SAM units, as individual assets packs, like SA-6 site pack, a S-200 pack, a SA-11 vehicle etc.

That would allow you to need a CA module and then buy those assets packs that will allow you to enter to those SAM vehicles operation stations.

 

If you do not know what SAM Simulator is: This is good explanation: https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Sov-SAM-Simulator.html

 

Now, just imagine that how highly profitable and valuable a Combined Arms module would become to Eagle Dynamics itself, when they could tap the DCS World in to genre of the RTS (and I heavily stress the word "strategy", not some 15-30 min gameplay where whole war is gone through) that has multiple times more players than any simulator game ever has had!?

 

The ED could very well make the best RTS game there is for Cold War era. They have big part of the vehicles already, they have HUGE maps! Very detailed maps (not on ground level, that is going to be updated by ED as they have said so about new terrain engine) and they have all the buildings etc almost ready. They have new weather system to come out etc.

 

And then ED can allow 3rd party studios to make assets packs for the whole Combined Arms module. Like if you want to get the WW2 era, you get to buy those assets packs. But those would be in this time to DCS: Combined Arms.

 

I can tell you right now that from my closest friends, no one would start to fly DCS at all. But few would be ready to put serious time to RTS game. And if it could be more like a chess kind game that can run on server for few weeks, they wouldn't mind at all! A real time server, running RTS simulation. And we could have all the virtual pilots there accepting and completing the sorties. That is the infinite flight simulator of modern cold war era!

 

And when you are not flying, you can connect/launch the Combined Arms and do the RTS/RTT gaming, go to fight in a town, where you control ATGM teams, fireteams, squads, platoons etc. You need to go carefully, slowly and building by building. Work with the communications, call in the air support, engage to long period combats as you don't want to kill your soldiers for stupidity. And then jump to the A-10C already on station or at ramp and go to fly your requested CAS sortie.

 

ED did show us years ago (like 2014-2015 or so) the video about M1A1 Abrams new animation video. Where it was driving around a virtual space, braking, accelerating etc. That video is gone, as it was time when ED was searching a person who has information about the MBT cockpits and weapons systems etc. Meaning they likely were considering to make a individual DCS: M1A1 Abrams module.

 

And if that would become possible, they would open a completely new ways to profit by 3rd parties as them. Like again, buy "assets packs" like "French ground units" or "Sweden ground units" (with a S-tank) etc.

As Wags told, the Flight Modeling is the most challenging and difficult part of the production. Where is that in the ground units, I ask? You simply can get more studios in the DCS World who doesn't need to know anything about a Flight Modeling! They needs to know about ground units! And there is HUGE fanbase for the ground troops and units out there, that are all very interested if they can get to fight with their wanted ground vehicles.

 

The most important thing that everyone should realise is that the ground troops life is not glorius, like the fighter pilots life is. The fighter pilot takes off, fly to some place, does something and then flies back. That is done in couple hours at max really in most cases. That couple hours is full of navigation, communications following, observations etc boring stuff, but that lasts only very short time. One evening or dinner time.

What does the ground troop does at that time? Even while in the combat, it is keeping head down and trying to stay alive. It is sneaking around, it is cooking the food, setting up the camp, taking a piss, going out for whole day patrol to do nothing than walk around. Maybe be in the watch while others are sleeping etc. BOOOOOOOOOOORING.

 

But that is where the RTS game, the Combined Arms module comes to be more than gold. You do not play a soldier. It ain't ARMA. It never can be it. Waste of time really. But it is huge asset for RTS fans who love to "One more turn" until they notice that it is 5am and they need to get back to work at 8am. People who are ready to learn a lot of small details on ground units, play for hours at the time doing very small tactical moves to reach the big strategical operations going.

For them the virtual pilots flying A-10C, F/A-18C, F-16C etc are nothing more than individual units out there, small gears in big big machine. And they completely understand that it can take 10 minutes to get the aircraft taxiing, fly 15-45min on the area (depending the distance) and then drop the bombs on location. A casual FPS shooter kid, they have already left the game. They don't care about such things. Why so many casual RTS games are so fast paced that the combat can be over in 30 min.

 

The Combined Arms shouldn't, and can not be viewed only as a "Tank simulator". It is far more, far more potential in it to make DCS World happen, and far more potential to be a money machine for high profits for not just ED but for every other possible studio etc.

 

I would be ready to bet that for every F/A-18C, F-16C or A-10C fan, there is 5-10 fans for modern cold war RTS game done well.

 

And I could very well see that ED could charge for a CA module for full $79 price tag at that moment. And every virtual pilot wouldn't anymore be flying against an AI, but a dozen of RTS gamers on one server, each controlling a small groups of ground units, like a tank platoon or a mechanized company. And there is place for people who want to be ATC in the airports. Someone who wants to be a GCI in given station, getting radar updates from various SAM sites, AWACS, etc and talking over soon to be released ED own VoIP system to various pilots. No more real time updates, information what type of aircraft the target is or what side it is.

Some players performing the big strategical planning how to get equipment, ammunition, food and extra personnel on different locations. Creating not just schedules for transports colonna that needs support from pilots, but as well helicopter transports, search and rescue operations, repair the bridges, train rails etc.

 

Should ED focus only for a aircraft modules? No.... Unless they really want to end up at some moment to lack of content they can bring, low income as everyone owns everything, and small customer base by focusing only to the virtual pilots.

 

ED has great possibility (if they do all well) to tap to big RTS game business. And virtual pilots shouldn't be afraid of that to happen, as it is just good for them. There are same kind Hardcore military fans out there, who just do not want to fly, but virtual pilots can fly with them, performing the sorties and missions that those other players are there generating and creating.

And that would greatly win any Dynamic Campaign AI when you put 10 vs 10 RTS minds to fight against each others in a big scale RTS (and weight again in Real-Time).

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She needs a little love'n for sure.

 

 

It's still fun and I've had some huge air ground battles online that were very fun, when there are many online. I'm talking 4 to 5 on each side in Tac command jumping around, driving sam's and tanks. Shooting down player aircraft and tanks battles.

 

Or just playing around online too. Pulled off this shot online....:)

 

Now that would scare the crap out of you.:cry:

 

Now now... That is little cheating with that F-10 map, isn't it :music_whistling:

 

Now, think about only having an radio, someone telling you over radio the last spotted general location and heading. You know that there is a helicopter coming toward your position from the specific heading. Maybe you have a infantry near your location that is doing it visually or at least hearing the helicopter being close, and the platoon/squad leader talks to you over radio. You can't use a map as there is nothing there. So you just wait.

 

And think about what the infantry can do to report you about all the enemy positions etc on the map? What they can do for the enemy fighters etc? When a observation post hears and then see a enemy fighter flying at low altitude in the canyon, they report it forward. And soon the virtual pilot in the CAP route receives information about that over radio. The general area and the direction the enemy was flying. No SAM, no radar.... Nothing that would have alarmed that enemy pilot that it has been detected. And CAP closes in by knowing about what area and altitude to search for.

 

When virtual KA-50/OH-58 pilot flies over an area, they would need to pull map out (if not having a coordinates) for coordinates and talk over radio the location of it to ground commander, who then issues artillery barrage on that location just before his controlled MBT platoon raises behind the hill.

 

A someone is chased by enemy fighter, talks over radio to ground commander, that gives order to fly at specific location where is the SAM site silently waiting. The pilot makes there and suddenly enemy pilot gets warning in RWR, just few seconds before missile strikes as the SAM made launch silently and turning tracking radar On just little before impact.

 

Removing the all-seeing F10 map and adding correct frequencies etc makes gaming far more fun as more action to everyone.

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Another post, that will devolve into what DCS can/should, can't maybe oughta do, and what developers are capable of, including surely how to allocate resources - when all the OP mentioned was hey, lets give some love to CA.

 

I like CA too OP, it is fun, and I look forward to it being fleshed out.

 

You go OP, you go!

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Few years back I used to sit and watch the battle unfold from the ground, if I had to hit the silk.

 

I'd get as close as I could to the enemy armour and watch it all unfold - was great fun. If there was a drivable vehicle handy, I'd jump in and carefully tour the battlefield. Was awesome watching the airstrikes come in, from a relatively safe hiding place, as well as the dogfights and air defences doing their thang.

 

CA is overdue some work - but I doubt we'll see anything soon, with all that's going on.

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Do you know why you fly? You fly because your job is to support troops on the ground!

 

No airforce (or air arms) is never controlling the terrain or winning the war alone. The war is fought and won by the ground troops. And every airforce (or air arm) is there to support the ground troops. A airforce needs to defend itself against ground units (SAM, MANPADS, SPAAG) as well against other airforce (fighters, interceptors), so it can continue its main job = supporting ground troops (CAS, Strike, Bombing).

 

The Combined Arms is the cornerstone of the DCS (IMHO) because it is the module that will tie up all the ground units, sea units and air units (hence Combined Arms).

 

The Combined Arms is the module that is the only module that can actually generate and build up a complete war, or complete war scenario. As it is not just a "It is a tank simulator"! The CA is the RTS game. It is not for infantry simulator (a la ARMA) nor is it for tank simulator (a la Steel Beasts). What it can be is additional complex RTS game (a la Close Combat game series + Wargame game series + Combat Mission + Panzer Campaigns + Command series) and combine it with a "SAM Simulator" where ED would 3D model the majority of the Soviet Union SAM units, as individual assets packs, like SA-6 site pack, a S-200 pack, a SA-11 vehicle etc.

That would allow you to need a CA module and then buy those assets packs that will allow you to enter to those SAM vehicles operation stations.

 

If you do not know what SAM Simulator is: This is good explanation: https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Sov-SAM-Simulator.html

 

Now, just imagine that how highly profitable and valuable a Combined Arms module would become to Eagle Dynamics itself, when they could tap the DCS World in to genre of the RTS (and I heavily stress the word "strategy", not some 15-30 min gameplay where whole war is gone through) that has multiple times more players than any simulator game ever has had!?

 

The ED could very well make the best RTS game there is for Cold War era. They have big part of the vehicles already, they have HUGE maps! Very detailed maps (not on ground level, that is going to be updated by ED as they have said so about new terrain engine) and they have all the buildings etc almost ready. They have new weather system to come out etc.

 

And then ED can allow 3rd party studios to make assets packs for the whole Combined Arms module. Like if you want to get the WW2 era, you get to buy those assets packs. But those would be in this time to DCS: Combined Arms.

 

I can tell you right now that from my closest friends, no one would start to fly DCS at all. But few would be ready to put serious time to RTS game. And if it could be more like a chess kind game that can run on server for few weeks, they wouldn't mind at all! A real time server, running RTS simulation. And we could have all the virtual pilots there accepting and completing the sorties. That is the infinite flight simulator of modern cold war era!

 

And when you are not flying, you can connect/launch the Combined Arms and do the RTS/RTT gaming, go to fight in a town, where you control ATGM teams, fireteams, squads, platoons etc. You need to go carefully, slowly and building by building. Work with the communications, call in the air support, engage to long period combats as you don't want to kill your soldiers for stupidity. And then jump to the A-10C already on station or at ramp and go to fly your requested CAS sortie.

 

ED did show us years ago (like 2014-2015 or so) the video about M1A1 Abrams new animation video. Where it was driving around a virtual space, braking, accelerating etc. That video is gone, as it was time when ED was searching a person who has information about the MBT cockpits and weapons systems etc. Meaning they likely were considering to make a individual DCS: M1A1 Abrams module.

 

And if that would become possible, they would open a completely new ways to profit by 3rd parties as them. Like again, buy "assets packs" like "French ground units" or "Sweden ground units" (with a S-tank) etc.

As Wags told, the Flight Modeling is the most challenging and difficult part of the production. Where is that in the ground units, I ask? You simply can get more studios in the DCS World who doesn't need to know anything about a Flight Modeling! They needs to know about ground units! And there is HUGE fanbase for the ground troops and units out there, that are all very interested if they can get to fight with their wanted ground vehicles.

 

The most important thing that everyone should realise is that the ground troops life is not glorius, like the fighter pilots life is. The fighter pilot takes off, fly to some place, does something and then flies back. That is done in couple hours at max really in most cases. That couple hours is full of navigation, communications following, observations etc boring stuff, but that lasts only very short time. One evening or dinner time.

What does the ground troop does at that time? Even while in the combat, it is keeping head down and trying to stay alive. It is sneaking around, it is cooking the food, setting up the camp, taking a piss, going out for whole day patrol to do nothing than walk around. Maybe be in the watch while others are sleeping etc. BOOOOOOOOOOORING.

 

But that is where the RTS game, the Combined Arms module comes to be more than gold. You do not play a soldier. It ain't ARMA. It never can be it. Waste of time really. But it is huge asset for RTS fans who love to "One more turn" until they notice that it is 5am and they need to get back to work at 8am. People who are ready to learn a lot of small details on ground units, play for hours at the time doing very small tactical moves to reach the big strategical operations going.

For them the virtual pilots flying A-10C, F/A-18C, F-16C etc are nothing more than individual units out there, small gears in big big machine. And they completely understand that it can take 10 minutes to get the aircraft taxiing, fly 15-45min on the area (depending the distance) and then drop the bombs on location. A casual FPS shooter kid, they have already left the game. They don't care about such things. Why so many casual RTS games are so fast paced that the combat can be over in 30 min.

 

The Combined Arms shouldn't, and can not be viewed only as a "Tank simulator". It is far more, far more potential in it to make DCS World happen, and far more potential to be a money machine for high profits for not just ED but for every other possible studio etc.

 

I would be ready to bet that for every F/A-18C, F-16C or A-10C fan, there is 5-10 fans for modern cold war RTS game done well.

 

And I could very well see that ED could charge for a CA module for full $79 price tag at that moment. And every virtual pilot wouldn't anymore be flying against an AI, but a dozen of RTS gamers on one server, each controlling a small groups of ground units, like a tank platoon or a mechanized company. And there is place for people who want to be ATC in the airports. Someone who wants to be a GCI in given station, getting radar updates from various SAM sites, AWACS, etc and talking over soon to be released ED own VoIP system to various pilots. No more real time updates, information what type of aircraft the target is or what side it is.

Some players performing the big strategical planning how to get equipment, ammunition, food and extra personnel on different locations. Creating not just schedules for transports colonna that needs support from pilots, but as well helicopter transports, search and rescue operations, repair the bridges, train rails etc.

 

Should ED focus only for a aircraft modules? No.... Unless they really want to end up at some moment to lack of content they can bring, low income as everyone owns everything, and small customer base by focusing only to the virtual pilots.

 

ED has great possibility (if they do all well) to tap to big RTS game business. And virtual pilots shouldn't be afraid of that to happen, as it is just good for them. There are same kind Hardcore military fans out there, who just do not want to fly, but virtual pilots can fly with them, performing the sorties and missions that those other players are there generating and creating.

And that would greatly win any Dynamic Campaign AI when you put 10 vs 10 RTS minds to fight against each others in a big scale RTS (and weight again in Real-Time).

 

Could not agree more - great post +1,000,000! CA should be a cornerstone, hate to use the term build ground up but CA is integral to the digital battlefield especially on some of the more hardcore online servers such as DDCS.

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An actual tank (and other ) internal “cockpit” views that works in VR would be a huge step forward. I could embrace that.

 

Another Sim is already heading full steam ahead in this direction with external studios help for the "ground" part of the sim :pilotfly:

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CA is overdue some work - but I doubt we'll see anything soon, with all that's going on.

 

A long time ago the CA was super cheap. You could get it in their -75% sales (when those were still coming) for like two euros or so. Since then they raised the price back to 39,90€ or so.

 

And then it was silent. Until Wags told in the podcast interview that they have high expectations for the CA in the future and to start utilizing it required the 2.5 come out first.

 

And in the previous update news etc there was again mention about lots of things to come out soon for the CA. With the small various updates like "Combined Arms support for steering the carrier and using weapons."

 

ED has needed to change a lot of other things before they got their hands on the CA work. Like we don't know currently anything about the new terrain engine, that can be critical for the CA (as well for helicopters and everything flying low or operating on ground). And so on you don't want to do double work if something critical is going to change soon(ish).

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I very much want to see them start selling tank and vehicle modules ( i.e. Steel Beasts ) because then we will all be in One World. They should be as realistically simulated as the planes being sold. I would also like to see FPS / Infantry realistically modeled.

 

 

But let them get through with F-16 and such first. I'm sure that is taking up all their time for now. Unless some third party wants to get involved.

 

 

Could not agree more - great post +1,000,000! CA should be a cornerstone, hate to use the term build ground up but CA is integral to the digital battlefield especially on some of the more hardcore online servers such as DDCS.

 

 

In this case, we're building Sky Down. smilewink.gif


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