[NOT REALISTIC] TWS bump azimuth and range

[Frederf]

I watched the mini update video which said that TWS doesn't have bump azimuth and range. Who knows with all the small differences between different models but this feature is present on quite a similar F-16 model. If possible can this can this be verified? My best estimate is that this version does have TWS bump azimuth (if OSB can do it) and range adjustment.

[desertowl]

Was wondering the same, seems like a weird UI implementation if it doesn't.

[backspace340]

Wait, TWS in F-16 can scan full azimuth and elevation volume? That sounds weird.

 

It reduces down once you bug a target.

[Shimmergloom667]

It reduces down once you bug a target.

 

It should already default to +/- 25° and 3 bars once TWS is selected. I filed that as a bug, but it got moved to wishlist. We will see.

[Wags]

This surprised me too, but our source documents for the version of the F-16 we are simulating is very clear that range and az cannot be changed with the radar cursor position.

 

Thanks

[Archaic]

I just map a button with modifier on HOTAS to the OSB. Makes it quick to cycle to through az ranges.

[Dee-Jay]

Hi!

 

This surprised me too, but our source documents for the version of the F-16 we are simulating is very clear that range and az cannot be changed with the radar cursor position.

 

I don't remember for that precisely, but be aware that in "many" places, RL documents are (surprisingly) not always 100% fully accurate. (yeah, I know, this is sometimes painful).

 

Regards.

[Wags]

Hi!

 

 

 

I don't remember for that precisely, but be aware that in "many" places, RL documents are (surprisingly) not always 100% fully accurate. (yeah, I know, this is sometimes painful).

 

Regards.

 

It's modeled correctly thanks.

[WHOGX5]

If you look at modern A-A tactics employed by western countries this decision makes sense. According to certain documents the TWS mode should be set before the mission to a certain range and azimuth, so once you commit to engaging a certain group you already have everything setup the way it should be for an engagement. If you're not committing, then you should stick to RWS. This is especially true in the F-16 since we have EXP mode which negates the need to reduce range to distinguish between radar contacts, and also SAM mode which let's us see the same information we would in TWS, even though we're in RWS.

[Dee-Jay]

Hi Frederf!

 

I watched the mini update video which said that TWS doesn't have bump azimuth and range. Who knows with all the small differences between different models but this feature is present on quite a similar F-16 model. If possible can this can this be verified? My best estimate is that this version does have TWS bump azimuth (if OSB can do it) and range adjustment.

 

After a 2nd read, I wonder if I've correctly understood your point (?)

 

I am not sure. Are you meaning this (?) @

&

:

 

${1}

 

...

 

Regards.

[feefifofum]

be aware that in "many" places, RL documents are (surprisingly) not always 100% fully accurate..

 

Regards.

 

I'll take RL documents over "word of mouth on internet" as a source material any day. ;)

[Dee-Jay]

I'll take RL documents over "word of mouth on internet" as a source material any day. ;)

 

Sure. It makes sens of course. Unless you can check by yourself or have someone to check in the real stuff (aircraft or real trainer/simulator). This is how we realized that some info from -34 are not always 100% accurate or up to date among tape updates/changes.

[feefifofum]

If you have access to actual, verifiable documentation that you are able to legally share please forward it a member of the ED team. They are really good about investigating these types of things. :thumbup:

It would be lovely if everyone who made claims of intimate knowledge of an airframe could be trusted but unfortunately most folks are full of you-know-what. Points for you for not degenerating into a frothing snarling lunatic when challenged though...makes me a lot more inclined to believe you're the real deal.

[Dee-Jay]

It would be lovely if everyone who made claims of intimate knowledge of an airframe could be trusted but unfortunately most folks are full of you-know-what.

 

IMHO, some of them do it in good faith. F-16 => many different blocks, versions, updates, software tapes. Sometimes, for a given block/software tape, things can be slightly different dependingly on tail number.

[Frederf]

Hi Frederf!

After a 2nd read, I wonder if I've correctly understood your point (?)

 

I had read too quickly. In the particular variant doc I'm reading TWS does have azimuth (120/50°) hands on select by left/right edge bumping and does do the 45/95% automatic range scale switching but no mention of the hands-on range select by cursor position. So I revise my statement, looks like no top/bottom range bumping but should have left/right azimuth bumping (if +-60 is actually available, i.e. no bug/cursor target). And all the usual disclaimers that all F-16 versions can have differences, doc isn't for exact version, it's only suspicion and not an authoritative statement, etc.

[Notso]

IMHO, some of them do it in good faith. F-16 => many different blocks, versions, updates, software tapes. Sometimes, for a given block/software tape, things can be slightly different dependingly on tail number.

 

This^

[Ghost117]

Hello, sorry to revive this but can someone from ED verify that range bumping in not available in TWS mode in the current modeled variant? Earlier versions of the radar had azimuth scan patterns locked in TWS and the wording in the manual could be confusing as to believing that range is also but state that range scale is changeable via bumping in both RWS and TWS. PM if we're going over rule 1.16 on this. Thank you!

[deadpool]

If you look at modern A-A tactics employed by western countries this decision makes sense. According to certain documents the TWS mode should be set before the mission to a certain range and azimuth, so once you commit to engaging a certain group you already have everything setup the way it should be for an engagement. If you're not committing, then you should stick to RWS. This is especially true in the F-16 since we have EXP mode which negates the need to reduce range to distinguish between radar contacts, and also SAM mode which let's us see the same information we would in TWS, even though we're in RWS.

 

Thank you for your information!

 

I only want to add a personal observation here:

 

BULLY7 (2xF16, incl. myself) inbound to support TIGER6 flight vs. hostiles. roughly 43nm distance at the beginning of the call.

You switch to TWS go EXP to try and get some sense of the numbers and get some indication on HUD without alerting them.

You pass 40nm and leave TWS to reduce radar scale .. then go TWS again.

You sort before hitting the 20nm range and fly intercept, get your stuff together, and anticipate pressing that button that will end it for someone else, actually start running through your plan B in your head.

You go through 20nm and don't dare remove lock now .. reduce until you have a pK that warrants the tactical situation and you fox.

 

What I notice: the scale for the missile range indication in the HUD would still be at max 40 in that case and that's really reducing the amount of valuable information you see. Don't know if that's a defect if it should scale independently of your radar setting or if your FCS should scale down.

I would imagine the former. Please give me some thoughts on that or some RL info.

 

As for the things I could optimise:

Reduce radar range to 20nm before the engagement manually. Or delay going into TWS until that point.

Both things I would not like doing as they mean I drop lock on a sorted target.

 

BR and thanks for the good exchange,

Deadpool

[Frederf]

Any update on azimuth bumping as a TWS feature? Currently side bumping does not switch 60 and 25 settings.

[Ghost117]

Azimuth bumping is not possible while in TWS. It makes sense since it changes the refresh rate of target sampling and the quality of the track. You wouldn't want to accidentally degrade your target track quality while cranking to the side after a missile launch, for example.

Range scale however changes only how much it is displayed on the MFD for pilot's convenience, it doesn't change how the radar works.

There is a note in the earlier variants of the radar's documentation that specifies that azimuth scan patterns are only changeable via OSBs and it comes right after some range scale description and it's not that difficult to come to the conclusion that it affects both. In a different section it states that range scaling via cursor bumping is possible in TWS and SAM.

It could really be a new feature, however a verification by someone with more updated information or a SME would be much appreciated :D .

[GGTharos]

In the eagle AZ bump changes the AZ and Bar settings, keeping scan volume/time the same for TWS.

 

Looks like at least in this particular case, the F-16 doesn't have this sort of capability.

[Frederf]

I re-read the -34 for the HAF v7 radar and actually it does mention specifically bump range for TWS but only in the decrease direction. In the same paragraph where >95%, <45% rule is mentioned for bugged target there is a when cursor is position <5%.

 

Bump azimuth for TWS is explictly mentioned and notes that it is possible only when no TOI has been established (e.g. when 60 azimuth not available).

[Deano87]

When my brother (Ex F-16 Pilot) tried out my sim while visiting over Christmas, he noted that he was unable to bump the radar range down in the TWS. I confirmed with him that it was possible specifically in TWS and he assured me that it was. Granted he was flying Danish Airforce Block 20 MLUs but I can’t imagine that a Block 50 wouldn’t have a radar/HOTAS function that Block 20 MLU has, specially one so useful.

[antsh]

bumpidy bump to maybe have ED take another look. Maybe someone can help convince them like we did for the JHMCS bug :).

[SpaceMonkey037]

F-16 TWS

 

Our current TWS mode does not have the ability to quickly change FCR scope range when bumping the cursor at either the top or the bottom of the FCR page nor does it have the ability to change between 60 and 30 degree scan when bumping the sides of the FCR page. This is not how it works in the real plane. TWS and RWS modes should both be able to change FCR scope range and FCR scan degrees. Currently only RWS has these abilities. This should be changed.