SU-33 carrier landing almost impossible?!

[SoaringEagle74]

Hi. Does anybody else have a hard time trying to land the SU-33 on a carrier? It seems that 80% of the time I must abort and go around. Either I come in too hard or too soft! I tried the tuturial but it hardly helps. For example it says keep 230-240 km/h and 3-4 m/s decent rate.

 

How is it possible to land so slow and not stall out of the sky? Should we always jettison weapons to lower the stall speed or what?

 

In contrast, the other planes seem easy to land at 260-280 km/h and 5 m/s decent!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Practice, practice, practice … It is not easy to land on a carrier, however, after a lots of practice you will be able to land from the first attempt in most of the cases.

[kram56]

My Dad (70 year's old), was having a hard time too but he's made a lot of progress by doing the following.

 

Prepare missions where you are at 1, 2, 5, 10 and 15 km from the ship (set the start point at the right altitude and the speed recommended on the HUD (you will have to press the 1 key to check this)).

 

Start with the 1 km mission and gradually work further away. Whats difficult IMHO is landing with the correct angle of attack (AOA), at the right position on the ship. My experience is that too steep an AOA and the plane just bounces off the deck into the air, too shallow and you roll along the deck and drop off the end of the ship.

 

When you start at 1 km you can "get your eye in", by landing (or not), a large number of times in a short space of time. Gradually increase the distance whilst building on your success. Eventually you will visually know where you should be and after that its childs play.

 

As a check record you fights and replay them checking you AOA on impact, this will tell you what works and what doesn't.

 

Best of luck, eventually you will ask what was so difficult :thumbup:

[Mnemonic]

Yep! Only practice, I remember that long time ago, it was hard for me to land Su-33 on carrier, but now I land Su-25t on carrier with 50% guarantee! :)

 

At close distance, try not to concentrate on gauges, try to look on the carrier desk, It helps me, maybe it helps you too.

[kram56]

I forgot a major item, aircraft weight, when you prepare the mission use 50% fuel or less, this really make a big difference.

[159th_Viper]

Trim*Trim*Trim - your best Friend :)

 

Less time on the Throttle and more on Trim will see you right. And as others have said: Lots of practice.

[SoaringEagle74]

Start with the 1 km mission and gradually work further away. Whats difficult IMHO is landing with the correct angle of attack (AOA), at the right position on the ship. My experience is that too steep an AOA and the plane just bounces off the deck into the air, too shallow and you roll along the deck and drop off the end of the ship.

 

Exactly true! AOA and airspeed are the most critical aspects of any carrier landing! On a fully loaded SU-33(fuel and weapons) I tend to come in fast and skim over the cables resulting in a go around. Trying to keep the airspeed near 230 km/h while heavy results in a fatal stall or hiting the carrier belly with a large AOA. In other words the margin for error is near zero. Thats the reason I mentioned jettisoning all weapons/fuel tanks prior to landing!

[dodger42]

Join the S77th. They have some outstanding carrier landing tutorials which helped me heaps.

[Force_Feedback]

You know what's a fun thing to do, land at slightly below 450 km/h (flaaaat glideslope), add full AB, and, as the cable is slowing you down, you will overshoot, and either end up in the black sea, or barely make it.

No wing/half wing landings in the su-33 are nice too, but this trime land at ~400 km/h without and afterburner, then you'll live and save an expensive plane for the Sovie, errm, Russian people.

[EricJ]

Hi. Does anybody else have a hard time trying to land the SU-33 on a carrier? It seems that 80% of the time I must abort and go around. Either I come in too hard or too soft! I tried the tuturial but it hardly helps. For example it says keep 230-240 km/h and 3-4 m/s decent rate.

 

How is it possible to land so slow and not stall out of the sky? Should we always jettison weapons to lower the stall speed or what?

 

In contrast, the other planes seem easy to land at 260-280 km/h and 5 m/s decent!

 

Usually land about at 260-280, when in LNDG/NOC mode, it'll show it on the upper left. Personally I use the autothrottle for traps, keeps my mind off the throttle, and more on landing the bird. You can land with some ordnance but the less the better as well, and as said, practice practice..

[S77th-konkussion]

Hi. Does anybody else have a hard time trying to land the SU-33 on a carrier? It seems that 80% of the time I must abort and go around. Either I come in too hard or too soft! I tried the tuturial but it hardly helps. For example it says keep 230-240 km/h and 3-4 m/s decent rate.

 

How is it possible to land so slow and not stall out of the sky? Should we always jettison weapons to lower the stall speed or what?

 

In contrast, the other planes seem easy to land at 260-280 km/h and 5 m/s decent!

 

I tend to disagree with that recommended landing speed, unless your plane is clean and on fumes. In fact- I'm pretty sure (haven't been on much- out of practice) that the computer will show a req'd speed of about 270- and I come in slightly faster than even that. It's all in the setup, and then practice makes perfect.

 

 

Deploy your tailhook upon visual of the ship.

 

Mind your speed when approaching the IP (the NAV mark about 14km out from the fantail) No reason to be intercepting ILS @ 700 kph. Entering the groove (approach) at 450 or so is plenty fast. (you can get away with more if a 120- 180 turn is needed to line up) If you begin this procedure at an appropriate speed- you won't need to make radical corrections which usually lead to a back and forth battle betweentoo fast/ too slow /too low/too high. You only got a few KM's to get it all right.

 

Mind your altitude. This happens even earlier. Your NAV computer will bring up about 1800 meters @ 35 clicks out. Do it. It'll bring up 1000 m. around... 10 or 12 clicks from IP Again- pay attention or you'll put yourself in a battle of radical altitude & speed corrections and then try to force a trap on a hosed up approach.

 

If you have a lot of fuel on board (<6 tonnes)- clean up the plane.

 

Set that throttle to about 80% torque- MAX. Leave it the hell alone.

 

Deploy flaps early in the initial lineup- but not faster than 450. Nose control- it'll go way up and getting you into one of these overcorrection issues I keep talking about. 400 is a good target speed.

 

Now using my speedbrake carefully- I manage my speed keeping it around 300 kph for the majority of the approach. I manage my glideslope by trying to keep no more than a -5 to -10 degree VV. I think you will find that this speed and attitude will provide for a nice, easy controllable descent- right on instrument. Personally- I don't mess with trimming a whole lot on full stop traps- but I see nothing wrong with this method if your comfortable with it. Maybe I should try it more myself now that I have a more precise CH controller.

 

Now you should be paying a LOT of attention to your magic hat- the ADI. Heed this instrument more so than the ILS cues on the HUD- especially early in the groove. Those needles tell you critical info regarding your lineup and glideslope. They also tell you HOW MUCH correction is needed. (When your ADI needle is slightly off to one side- you need not bank it 40 degrees to fix this no?) If you are slightly off your lineup- but a glance at the HDD shows you are about to cross the NAV reference line- you don't really need to make a correction if you are still in the early stages. Simply allow the needle to line up and correct to keep it there.

 

If you have not already done so- deploy gear around 5 to 6 km out. This will bring down your speed slightly and you should be ready to compensate with trim or slight back pressure on the stick. You must still maintain that angle on your VV.

 

If you are having trouble slowing down -which also leads to improper glideslope- (common nugget issue) I suppose you can use the gear early on to help slow a bit. It's better than messing with the throttles.

 

Now that you're close (all of 2 minutes later) your eyes should be CONTINUALLY cycling through the following checks:

 

Gear & hook down

 

localizer (lineup on centerline)

glideslope

speed

localizer (lineup on centerline)

glideslope

speed

 

In that final KM or so- if you are a bit fast or a bit high- deploy that brake. Let her settle onto that wire array with nose slightly raised. Be ready to apply FMP (full military power) in case you miss the wire.

 

(USN apply FMP on every touchdown due to the possiblity of a wire parting. LOMAC does not model this)

 

 

By the way I'm assuming here that you are already familiar with the instruments mentioned and that you know how to use the NAV system. Selecting modes, zooming in when appropriate to enhance clarity, etc etc.

 

 

Easy!

 

Go to my downloads page for a track. No voiceovers, etc- it's just a track. (I'm not that smart- see Rick "Ironhand")

[504Goon]

Carrier landings are done exactly like any other landing, except you do not flare. Think of flying through the deck.. that's why it's called a controlled crash. :)

 

During approach you should fly the aircraft in a diffrent manner than in a normal flight. Use pitch to control your airspeed, and throttle to control your descent rate. Ie. if you are too fast, pull the nose up to slow down, and if you are too high, throttle down. Now it's a good idea to do these things simultaneously. If you just pull the nose up when you are too fast and don't touch the throttle, you are propably going to go well above the glideslope. The key is to have the aircraft trimmed well prior to touchdown, so you really don't have to do anything else than hold the aircraft steady during the final seconds.

 

Now, as many have mentioned, payload will affect your approach speed quite a lot. My advice: ignore the airspeed completely. Just make sure you start the approach below 400km/h, but after that, do not look at the airspeed at all! What you should be looking at, is the Angle of Attack indicator on the lower left corner of the hud. The 3 diffrent lights will tell you how to fly.

 

Yellow = too low angle of attack / too fast

Green = optimal angle of attack / optimal speed

Red = too high angle of attack / too slow (you risk stalling the aircraft)

 

Use the throttle and pitch to control the angle of attack, and remember that you have to stay on the glide slope through the whole approach. And remember to trim. If you use the light system, you will always be on the correct airspeed for the approach/landing, no matter what your payload weight is, just as long as you stay on the glideslope.

 

And remember, make small adjustments. If you see that you are getting below the glide slope, just add a bit of throttle, wait a few seconds to see the reaction, and then correct again.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Happy landings!

[jonob66]

It helps if you have a stiff drink first. Get lined up right and learn to intercept the glide slope at the right altitude and speed. Trust your instruments and the HUD. Use small thrust corrections. Don't focus on the deck. keep slightly high and flat only at 1km increase to 5 degrees nose up. Landing on deck at 270 - 280. Hit the afterburner when over the cables. Then brake, if bolter keep thrust at full miltary and climb away. Don't allow yourself to sink under the glide slope especially in the final few seconds. Don't force a landing, better to go around and line up again. As everyone else has said practice is the only way. Soon you'll do it in your sleep.:)

[walternowi]

The lighter the plane, the more responsive it is. In my carrier landings, I like to dump fuel before the final approach until I am left with < 2500 kg.

[Ironhand]

Oh, what the hell. I might as well chime in, too. There's a carrier landing tutorial (video) on my website you might find useful called: Carrier Quals. You'll find it on the Flight Basics page.

 

Rich

[JaBoG32_Prinzartus]

Try the Su-33 quick Mision and approah carrier with 280 -300 kmph, brakes out, full flaps, gear down and hoook down. Keep AoA Indexer in green position.

 

It certainly needs some practice, but it is not that hard if you cann kep it withi the parameters.

[Aeroscout]

I just use the big green circle on the HUD as my reference. Keep the X in the middle of the HUD in that circle, keep managing your speed to the assigned speed and it will be perfect every time. (so long as you remember to put your hook down... :D )

 

That's not to say you shouldn't worry about what the other's said, but this trick helped me a lot.

 

Oh, and yes... practice!

[Frostie]

Just land that sucker Mav.:D

[Majesco]

Carrier landing with Su-33 is easy, have a look (practiced online with [Falcon]Swiss77 over HL)

 

/ Doing air-refuelling is more difficult but no problems for me :smartass:

 

 

 

[SoaringEagle74]

Thanks for the heap of information and tips. You helped me confirm what I already knew or at least suspected. In other words the tutorial on Su-33 carrier landings in Flaming Cliffs was misleading in some aspects especially in regards to airspeed and vertical velocity. The biggest problem was that it did not take into account weight which makes all the difference in the world!

 

I managed to land the plane many times at 260-270 km/h with about 5-8 m/s decent and no cable broke with a medium load, in other words a few missiles and half full tank. As some people already mentioned its probably conceivable that slower landings are possible but thats assuming an ultra light load.

 

The rest of the tuturial is accurate in every regard; Combat flaps until final then switch to full down, 300-350 km/h going to final then 270 km/h on hud(but falsely stated at 230/240 during briefing), tail hook and gear down, airbrake deployed, full afterburner over carrier threshold.

 

Yeah I agree. Takes lots and lots of practice and then when your done practice some more! :thumbup:

 

Conclusion: Tuturial failed to take into account weight which can/is very confusing when your trying to learn the basics. I almost broke the computer after 20-30 failed attempts(stalling into the sea, bolting, carrier deck explosions, etc!) :joystick::D

[Ironhand]

...

Conclusion: Tuturial failed to take into account weight which can/is very confusing when your trying to learn the basics. I almost broke the computer after 20-30 failed attempts(stalling into the sea, bolting, carrier deck explosions, etc!)

First, let me say that I had nothing to do with creating the tutorial that came with the sim. But I do want to say this in defense of the gentleman who created it. You are incorrect. The tutorial does take aircraft weight into account. As you are coming down the glideslope, he details the use of the ISM-1 AoA indicator. While he doesn't tell you the reason (differences in aircraft weight), he gives a detailed account of what the indicator lights mean and what you have to do (increase or decrease airspeed and to what degree) to land successfully based on what the lights are telling you. In hindsight, could the point have been made more clearly? Possibly. But, if you had been following the instructions provided, you would have been far less frustrated.

 

Rich

[GGTharos]

You are -supposed- to be light when landing on a carrier. You don't load munition you won't use, 'cause you have to dump it into the sea before landing. Similarily, excess fuel must be dumped.

[SoaringEagle74]

If you play the tuturial it clearly states in the beginning that landings should be done at 230-240 km/h and at a descent rate of 3-5 m/s. Why are you disputing these facts? Also, I don't recall it mentioning anything about weight and how it influences landings. The developers may have taken these "details" for granted but they should understand that beginers need all the help they can get!

 

As far as the rest of the tuturial I already agreed that imo its probably accurate!

[504Goon]

The tutorial does explain the AoA indicator, which will give you the correct approach speed no matter what your aircraft weight is. Though i have to agree that the speeds given can be a bit misleading.

[159th_Viper]

Perfect your landings in a T-Frog: After that everything else is a Walk in the Park........;)