Some questions about VPC bases

[VpR81]

Hi all,

 

I´m planning to upgrade my gear with a VPC WarBRD base and i did some research about it, but couldn´t find all the informations i need. I learned that the WarBRD base is meant for sidestick/desktop use without extensions, having about the same axis length as the TM Warthog base. Also, that use of extensions will void the WarBRDs warranty. My plan is to use the WarBRD base for my F-16 sidestick config and start to use the TM base, attached to its baseplate, center mounted with extension for my F/A-18 config. I´m aware about the TMs flaws in that term (gimbal, axis length) and that the VPC T50 base is a much better choice for that. But my budget says no to both at a time and my TM base is still working perfect. I want to order the WarBRD base together with the VPC curved extension, wich i think is a very nice one. I will never use it on the WarBRD base, but only on the TM base. Before i order any of that, i have a few questions about the VPC bases:

 

 

 

1) Can VPC identify the use (or non use) of an extension in case of a warranty related re-shipment? I´m asking this, because i don´t want to get into trouble just for ordering the WarBRD base together with the extension.

 

2) Do the VPC bases (T50 and WarBRD) fit on the TM baseplate?

 

3) If No.2 is not the case, can someone please give me the measures between the screw holes on the WarBRD base?

 

4) Do both VPC bases have different measures between their screw holes?

 

5) If No.4 is not the case, would a WarBRD baseplate with T50 base fit on a TM baseplate preparation, or would i have to drill new holes to mount the VPC baseplate to my rig?

 

6) How long does it usually take from order until delivery when ordered from Germany?

 

7) Prices on the VPC homepage are ex. VAT, but what do i have to pay in the end when delivered to EU/Germany?

 

 

 

 

I hope i haven´t forgot anything and thank you guys in advance for your time

 

 

Cheers

[Bob_Bushman]

1)

I don't think they bother, they recommend not using extensions on the warbrd, since it has a wider deflection than the t50 as well, and this could result in the grip bumping into the deskmount, it's a bit of self coverage, but it's not like the thing won't work, or that they will be unreasonable if you get a problem.

There are many who do use the warbrd with an extension, they just make sure to have the right clearance etc.

 

Their main support guy is both intelligent and know how many configurations their kit is being used with, I have never gotten a hard time dealing with Virpil support.

 

2,3)

I think the Warbrd gimbal could be fitted to a warthog type mount, but I'm only guessing, I know the throttle is matched. I can be mistaken.

 

The t50 mount point is not the base, but the front, there is bracket there that mounts directly into the main gimbal mechanism, this because Virpil doesn't expect the t50 casing to be able to handle the forces mounting to the casing if using the heavier springs and cams.

This is the mount point for the t50

 

 

4, 5)

You can try the https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-universal-compact-base-plate.html, but keep in mind this just attaches to the casing on the t50 so not for use with the hardest springs and cams.

 

6)

If in stock, I have mostly had about a week before they shipping, rest should be up to the courier.

 

7)

I would indeed expect that, but I thought EU members would be charged directly I'm from EEA so get hit with a bill a few days later for the VAT.

 

 

I have both the old t50 and a warbrd, having them in a right and left stick setup, the warbrd is in my opinion not an inferior stick, it's just different.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Bob_Bushman

[Sabre_Ewan]

If you look in accessories on the shop, they now offer a mounting plate like the warbrd one, and the baseplate of the Warthog.

The original T-50 isn't listed as compatible, but I asked and Cypher told me that it is.

 

The VAT should be added at checkout, and it will be whatever VAT is in Germany. For example in the UK I paid 20% on top of the listed price.

I recently bought a CM2. Ordered 14th of November, despatched 15th. Arrived here in UK 19th if I remember correctly.

 

Edit: Sorry just saw that you linked the same thing. :) But from what he told me, I wouldn't expect to have any problems using it.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Sabre_Ewan

[Bob_Bushman]

If you look in accessories on the shop, they now offer a mounting plate like the warbrd one, and the baseplate of the Warthog.

The original T-50 isn't listed as compatible, but I asked and Cypher told me that it is.

 

The VAT should be added at checkout, and it will be whatever VAT is in Germany. For example in the UK I paid 20% on top of the listed price.

I recently bought a CM2. Ordered 14th of November, despatched 15th. Arrived here in UK 19th if I remember correctly.

 

Edit: Sorry just saw that you linked the same thing. :) But from what he told me, I wouldn't expect to have any problems using it.

 

No I don't think there would be major problems for 99% of cases.

 

But there is the possible edge case where a user throw on the warbird extra heavy cams and the hardest springs and a long extension.

 

For the t50 the bottom plate is only attached by four fine threaded M3 screws after all.

 

For the warbrd the bottom fixture is using a bit larger screws and the cams and springs for that have significantly lower force potential than what is possible to get with the t50.

 

That said I have actually mounted my t50 from the bottom and used that like this for a year and half of daily use, but I'm using the Cosmo-sim cams and soft springs.

The gimbal is barely any heavier than my old CH fighterstick as it is now.

But just the standard cams with medium springs had me almost having to brace myself against the floor to engage full deflection.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Bob_Bushman

[Baur]

:thumbup:

[Baur]

For the t50 the bottom plate is only attached by four fine threaded M3 screws after all.

No - M4 screws

[VpR81]

That´s truly some interesting info from you guys. Especially those pictures from you Baur helped a lot and covered everything i wanted to know about the measures.

 

I recently bought a CM2. Ordered 14th of November, despatched 15th. Arrived here in UK 19th if I remember correctly.

 

Less than a week if in stock sounds realy great, so i may get it prior to christmas. Did you pay with paypal?

 

1)

I don't think they bother, they recommend not using extensions on the warbrd, since it has a wider deflection than the t50 as well, and this could result in the grip bumping into the deskmount, it's a bit of self coverage, but it's not like the thing won't work, or that they will be unreasonable if you get a problem.

There are many who do use the warbrd with an extension, they just make sure to have the right clearance etc.

 

So extension related damages primarily meant for the grip instead of the base, or am i wrong? Anyways that´s ok for me, since i use a rig with no desk or whatever between me and the paddles and i don´t plan to use the warbrd center mounted. Space from left to right would propably be an issue with the Warbrd/WH deflection, rather than front/rear for me... I guess there is no way around a T50 base within the next few months...

 

Or a T50+extension now and the Warbrd later? Damn, that´s a realy hard decision...

 

Ah btw, maybe another question. Not sure if it´s worth asking since they´re officially compatible, but i´m still a bit concerned about it... Are there any known issues when using the TM Warthog or the TM F/A-18 grip on the VPC bases? Should work perfectly, shouldn´t they?

 

Cheers

[Sabre_Ewan]

Less than a week if in stock sounds realy great, so i may get it prior to christmas. Did you pay with paypal?

 

 

 

Yep. Paid with paypal. They've definitely improved a lot since they started shipping from Lithuania.

 

I ordered my T-50 base and original grip when everything was still coming straight from Belarus.

Then "In Stock" just meant "maybe we'll ship it in a month or two". Luckily they seem to have fixed some things and now they operate it like a real online shop.

 

A much better shopping experience, and the products have always been great. :)

[VpR81]

Ok, convinced. Just checking if some friends want to jump in to share shipping costs and then going to order Warbrd base, extension and the universal baseplate tomorrow. Can´t wait for it.

 

Thank you guys for all your efforts, this realy helped me out!

 

Cheers

[Raisuli]

 

So extension related damages primarily meant for the grip instead of the base, or am i wrong? Anyways that´s ok for me, since i use a rig with no desk or whatever between me and the paddles and i don´t plan to use the warbrd center mounted. Space from left to right would propably be an issue with the Warbrd/WH deflection, rather than front/rear for me... I guess there is no way around a T50 base within the next few months...

 

Or a T50+extension now and the Warbrd later? Damn, that´s a realy hard decision...

 

Ah btw, maybe another question. Not sure if it´s worth asking since they´re officially compatible, but i´m still a bit concerned about it... Are there any known issues when using the TM Warthog or the TM F/A-18 grip on the VPC bases? Should work perfectly, shouldn´t they?

 

Cheers

 

 

I ran my WH stick on my Warbrd base until I decided to buy the stick (separately) and pay way more than needed for the package. It was worth it.

 

 

The WH stick might not fare as well now with light springs and an extension; the weight might be more than the springs can center, but I haven't tested it.

 

 

When I designed the center mount base I was very, very careful to make sure nothing, including the flip-trigger in the up position, ran into anything solid. The palm rest catches my right leg at the extreme end of travel, but overall I'm pretty satisfied.

 

 

 

Sure, I'm mounting so a solid base with 4 M4s in an aluminum extrusion, but realistically I don't slam the thing around much. It made an awful noise after testing out some (too light) springs, but that was the screws holding the gimbal to the top plate coming lose a little. Easy to fix.

 

 

Overall I've been very pleased with both the base and the stick, and there's something sexy about flying American iron with a Belorussian production of a Soviet stick. Croatian pedals, French throttle, Russian software, I had a Polish extension but I changed that. I made the rest of the pit so I suppose that part is American...except for the components made in either Japan, Taiwan, or China.

 

 

It's really hard to go to 'war' with anyone given the international nature of my set-up...Let's see...nothing from Upper Volta, right?

[Bob_Bushman]

No - M4 screws

 

I'll take your word for it, it's almost two years since I last saw it :P

[VpR81]

The WH stick might not fare as well now with light springs and an extension; the weight might be more than the springs can center, but I haven't tested it.

 

 

When I designed the center mount base I was very, very careful to make sure nothing, including the flip-trigger in the up position, ran into anything solid. The palm rest catches my right leg at the extreme end of travel, but overall I'm pretty satisfied.

 

I´m not going to use the WH grip with an extension on the Warbrd base. This will only be a sidestick config. For center mount i´m going to use the F/A-18 grip with extension on the TM base and will propably switch to a T50 base in a couple of months. Sadly the curved extension is not in stock right now and i had to place my order without it. But while the Hornet grip is slightly lighter than the original WH grip, i think (hope) that should do it on a T50 base in the future. Anyways, these are the only issues with that VPC base/TM grip combination? No known electronical or software issues with this setup?

 

Wich base did you take for your center mounted setup? The T50 or the Warbrd?

 

Cheers

Edited December 10, 2019 by VpR81

[Raisuli]

I´m not going to use the WH grip with an extension on the Warbrd base. This will only be a sidestick config. For center mount i´m going to use the F/A-18 grip with extension on the TM base and will propably switch to a T50 base in a couple of months. Sadly the curved extension is not in stock right now and i had to place my order without it. But while the Hornet grip is slightly lighter than the original WH grip, i think (hope) that should do it on a T50 base in the future. Anyways, these are the only issues with that VPC base/TM grip combination? No known electronical or software issues with this setup?

 

Wich base did you take for your center mounted setup? The T50 or the Warbrd?

 

Cheers

 

 

Warbird. I put the WH stick on it and even with the light springs it worked great sidestick. Had to fire up the software and argue with it a little, but I do (did) my mapping in DCS. Probably going to take Joystick Gremlin for a spin, but you'll need Virpil's software to get the stick/base talking.

 

 

There are a couple reasons I'm not a sidestick fan. One is the ergonomics, or lack thereof, running that on my desk. The other is I fly left handed now and then. Center stick I fly with the hand that's free, though the buttons aren't easy to use.

 

 

Besides, I built a pit. That's the real reason I'm center stick now.

[VpR81]

Just wanted to say, that my order arrived today. The base itself is realy nice, but the screws are too long to mount it on both baseplates, the standard and the universal one. Thankfully i had some that fit perfectly, so that was nothing to worry about. Firmware update and calibration took a few minutes, but both TM grips work perfectly on the base. The springs are much softer than i expected compared to the TM base. Definately too soft for use with extension and the heavy TM grips, as you guys said. I don´t regret the purchase, it is a realy nice upgrade to the TM base, although i need to get used to the softer springs and different cams.

 

Thanks again for the help

 

cheers

[j9murphy]

Just wanted to say, that my order arrived today. The base itself is realy nice, but the screws are too long to mount it on both baseplates, the standard and the universal one. Thankfully i had some that fit perfectly, so that was nothing to worry about. Firmware update and calibration took a few minutes, but both TM grips work perfectly on the base. The springs are much softer than i expected compared to the TM base. Definately too soft for use with extension and the heavy TM grips, as you guys said. I don´t regret the purchase, it is a realy nice upgrade to the TM base, although i need to get used to the softer springs and different cams.

 

Thanks again for the help

 

cheers

@VpR81 did you try the heavy springs in you warbrd base? do you think that would make a difference with the base's ability to handle the TM grips with an extension?

[VpR81]

Yes, just a week ago i installed the heavy springs. Honestly, i haven´t tried the WarBRD base with extensions as it was planned to be used as F-16 sidestick from the beginning. My personal opinion is, that it is still significant softer than the Warthog with the standard spring.

 

 

I´m using the Warthog base now with Sahaj´s blue spring, 35cm extension and Hornet grip on top. I tried the standard WH spring with that combination first and the base didn´t recenter anymore. I also tried the WH base with original A-10/F-16 grip, original spring and a 20cm extension just for fun and it also didn´t recenter anymore. According to the WarBRD base with heavy springs beeing still much softer (at least around the gimbal center) than the non-customized Warthog, i doubt it could handle extensions pretty good. Mabe a very short (5cm) one. Also the stick is still a bit flippy with the heavy springs. I also purchased the extra heavy springs for the WarBRD base separately, but tbh i haven´t tried them yet.

 

I purchased all of the Virpil extensions (50mm, 75mm, 100mm and 200mm) and the 75mm extension is not in use. If you want, i could install this one on the WarBRD base with the WH grip tomorrow (not at home right now) and check how it works. But honestly i´m too lazy to dissasemble my center stick in order to try other extensions, or to install the extra heavy springs on the WarBRD base.

 

cheers

Edited February 18, 2020 by VpR81

[hornblower793]

I use a WarBRD with a 5cm extension and my Warthog and F-18 grips - it can be slightly springy at times but I can refuel OK using it so cannot be too bad. I mostly do it so that I can swap grips easily without having to connect / disconnect directly on the base. You just need to be gentle with movements, but that suits the airframes better anyway and makes the F-14 fly really nicely.

 

 

It is definitely not as stiff as the Thrustmaster base, but I would never go back.

 

 

 

I have the heavy springs installed and turned the tension up.

 

 

Hope this helps

[j9murphy]

 

... If you want, i could install this one on the WarBRD base with the WH grip tomorrow (not at home right now) and check how it works...

 

cheers

 

That would be great, would love to hear your impression of that configuration.

[VpR81]

Hey mate, i just installed the 75mm extension on the WarBRD base, using the WH grip on top and tried a couple of training dogfights with it. I would rate it as stiff (maybe a bit softer) as using the soft springs without extension, so pretty much flippy floppy. It does completely recenter, but the slightest touch will make it move. I´d say it is usable in this config, but as this is very much personal opinion i´m careful with that judgement. Propably better with the extra heavy springs, but as i said i didn´t try them yet. I made a short video of it´s behavior, but couldn´t find any option here to attach videos...

 

cheers

Edited February 19, 2020 by VpR81

[Mars Exulte]

These bases are designed with the plastic grips in mind, the heavy metal TM grip will definitely change the feel of them. That said, my experience with real controls suggests ''so sensitive you barely touch'' is how they are, too

[rtimmons]

I just got my WarBRD base and set it up with my WH grip. I had to drill out the base plate holes for 6m screws to mount it to my 80/20 profiles. The feel of the stick is excellent right out of the box for me. I removed the 5.5" extension that I used on my TM base because the WarBRD is much smoother and has a built in long throw so I don't really need an extension anymore. Never felt easier to fly a huey. The only issue I am having is the grip comes loose easily while flying and starts to twist. I had the same problem with the extension on the TM. I need a way to lock the nut that attaches the grip to the base. I might try some pipe thread tape. The base seems to be well built and high quality. The software worked well and was easy to use. I think I'll get one of those MongooseT grips since my experience with Virpil so far is excellent. It would be nice to have the axis brake lever and the longer stick for the spitfire.

[HC_Official]

get a rubber o ring and put it inside iand under the lock nut

[X-31_VECTOR]

I need a way to lock the nut that attaches the grip to the base. I might try some pipe thread tape. The base seems to be well built and high quality. The software worked well and was easy to use. I think I'll get one of those MongooseT grips since my experience with Virpil so far is excellent. It would be nice to have the axis brake lever and the longer stick for the spitfire.

 

Teflon tape will actually make it easier for the threads to back out. Try blue Loctite (NOT red, which is intended to hold permanently). Start with a small amount and see if it prevents the loosening. If not, clean off the first application and reapply with a larger amount. Don't go crazy, as even blue Loctite can make life difficult when it comes time to unscrew something.

[msmith301]

I don't want to repeat something that's already been started.

Has anybody started a thread to show their flight sim setups?

[Lange_666]

Teflon tape will actually make it easier for the threads to back out. Try blue Loctite (NOT red, which is intended to hold permanently). Start with a small amount and see if it prevents the loosening. If not, clean off the first application and reapply with a larger amount. Don't go crazy, as even blue Loctite can make life difficult when it comes time to unscrew something.

Use a hairdryer at full to heat up the Loctite before you unscrew the screws. Makes life easier.