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Vietnam's Map


sangfhas

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Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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Awesome! You've grouped them all together. Yes, a Vietnam map I would consider thee ULTIMATE map in DCS. (although, I suppose some others wouldn't) The MIG-21bis...close enough, just restrict the missiles used (player's discretion). F-5E-3...close enough. MIG-19P...close enough. If an F-8E or F-8J gets made, excellent! An F-4E would be close enough, although I would prefer the F-4B and the very similar F-4C/D. The F-105D, F-100D and MIG-17 would be important as well as a full version of the A-4E Skyhawk. For helos: I think UH-1H is close enough. Add the OH-6A (Hughes 500C), AH-1G Cobra, the CH-46D and the CH-47A.

 

Vietnam really has two, almost separate eras. The Rolling Thunder era of 1965 to 68 and the Linebacker I & II era of 1972, which was mostly about the B-52's in December of '72. And they are further divided into the US Air Force aircraft and the US Navy/Marine Corps aircraft. The NVAF can pretty much be grouped into one, I think...MIG 17's, -19's and -21's. For Rolling Thunder, the USAF mainly used F-105D's for daytime strikes on Route Pack VI (from Korat and Takhli Thai AB's) and F-4C & D Phantoms for CAP (from Ubon and Udorn Thai AB's). The Navy used A-4E Skyhawks for day strike and F-8E's and F-4B's for CAP and the A-6A went in pretty much alone for low-level night strikes, I believe, in their portion of Route Pack VI. That's where I'd say the main concentration of a Vietnam map should initially focus: North Vietnam, Laos and Thailand, and off shore into Tonkin Gulf. That's still a big area, but more of a NE-SW corridor between central-west Thailand and Route Pack VI North Vietnam. The terrain is mostly solid trees. Less infrastructure than on the Normandy map, I think. Another big factor was towering cumulus clouds and thunderstorms. Such clouds are sorely missing from DCS.

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Having flown the Strike fighter Vietnam sim for a number of years, it would be brilliant to have a Vietnam map, plus the aircraft F-4, F-105D. I am sure at some point with the amazing talent in this community, it may be possible.

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CPU: Intel Core i9-10850K 3.6GHz, Motherboard: MSIZ490, RAM: 64GB DDR4, Graphics Card: Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080 10GB, SSD: 3 x Samsung 2TB and 1 x Samsung 500GB, Monitor: 34" IIyama LCD, Joystick: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog + F-18C Flight stick, Thrustmaster TCA Captains Pack Airbus Edition, Pedals: CH Products Pro, VR: Meta Guest 2 , Oculus Rift S, MFD: Thrustmaster Cougar, Head gear: Track IR4 and tobii, Chair: NLR FS Boeing Military Editiion Chair.

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Vietnam Map is needed urgently.

The upcoming Forrestal would fit perfect.

Also the upcoming A-6 and A-7 fit in perfectly.

F-4 also annouced years ago.

 

 

 

Then theres just need for an ugrade on the Huey (correct sizes etc.) including a tape player function like the Tomcat has.

Playing songs like: Bad Moon Rising, Fortunate Sun, Long Tall Sally, The Tracks of my Tears, Ride of the Valkyries, ...

 

 

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning

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Wishlist: (Aircraft)

F/A-18D Hornet | F-14D Tomcat | A-6 Intruder | EA-6 Prowler | E-1B Tracer | E-2B Hawkeye | (Navy) F-4 Phantom | F-104 Starfighter | AH-64 Apache | UH-60/SH-60 | RAH-66 Comanche | Curtiss P-40 | North American T-6 Texan | Mitsubishi A6M | Jak-9

 

Wishlist: (Map)

Vietnam | Pearl Harbor 1941 | Naval Air Station Pensacola (New Orleans <-> Orlando)

 

Wishlist: (WWII-Assets-Pack-UPDATE)

USS Arizona | USS Oklahoma | US Aircraft Carrier | Japanese Aircraft Carrier

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the new Syria map is 610 * 440 km or 379 * 273 miles. The 2016 'Strait of Hormuz' map was about 650 nm wide (748 miles) which was shortened down to 350 nm across ((or 402 miles, East to West) just for the high detail parts when it changed to "Persian Gulf". This was because 2 islands were added. PG is still much larger but the rest of the map is the un detailed parts.

 

Vietnam could defiantly be doable using these kinda sizes


Edited by Southernbear
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  • 2 weeks later...

All,

 

A humble proposal; expand the Vietnam map just a little to go from Taiwan to Singapore, then east to the Philippines. Then on that map, you could place:

 

Early World War II campaign as (or against) the American Volunteer Group, also know as the Flying Tigers.

 

A French air campaign against the Viet Minh.

 

The Vietnam War

 

And a modern, hypothetical conflict showing the Chinese infrastructure built on the reefs in the South China Sea.

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All,

 

A humble proposal; expand the Vietnam map just a little to go from Taiwan to Singapore, then east to the Philippines. Then on that map, you could place:

 

Early World War II campaign as (or against) the American Volunteer Group, also know as the Flying Tigers.

 

A French air campaign against the Viet Minh.

 

The Vietnam War

 

And a modern, hypothetical conflict showing the Chinese infrastructure built on the reefs in the South China Sea.

 

And also the battle for Singapore itself using British Buffaloes and Hurricanes etc. (Which we will likely get if they do BOB).

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I host "The Vietnam War" public server. Of course it would be fantastic to have a Vietnam map. And hopefully, as several of you have commented on, it would generate interest in creating Vietnam era modules. We do have the F-5 and the awesome free A-4E-C Skyhawk mod but it would certainly be great to fly them over a Vietnam map instead of our pretend it is Vietnam Caucasus ;)

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It would be nice to also have some Vietnam war modules. F-8J, A-7E, MiG-19S had been used during Vietnam war but they are all still in development.

 

F-5E, MiG-21bis and AH-1H we have now are more recent and advanced and developed after Vietnam war.

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F-5E, MiG-21bis and AH-1H we have now are more recent and advanced and developed after Vietnam war.

Not true. While the MiG-21bis didn't serve in Vietnam (being a high performance variant reserved for the Warsaw Pact), it's very much a late Vietnam-era airplane. It entered service in 1972, by which time the war was still very much going on. Same with the F-5E, it entered service in 1973, though it was only for aggressor training, including as a MiG-21 stand-in. I'm pretty sure UH-1H (there's no such thing as AH-1H) did serve in Vietnam, since it entered service in 1967.

 

 

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Dragon1-1 said:

Not true. While the MiG-21bis didn't serve in Vietnam (being a high performance variant reserved for the Warsaw Pact), it's very much a late Vietnam-era airplane. It entered service in 1972, by which time the war was still very much going on. Same with the F-5E, it entered service in 1973, though it was only for aggressor training, including as a MiG-21 stand-in. I'm pretty sure UH-1H (there's no such thing as AH-1H) did serve in Vietnam, since it entered service in 1967.

 

 

UH-1H entered service 1967 during Vietnam war but our version seems to represetn 1980s standard and avionics IIRC it's modeled after Australian Bush Ranger.

 

MiG-21bis entered service 1972, F-14A Tomcat in 1974. So even Tomcat is more of a Vietnem plane since, entering service at similar time as MiG-21bis, at least F-14A took part in last episode of Vietnam war. Contrary to MiG-21bis.

But i would love to see a Vietnam map and Vietnam era aircrafts.

819370623_F-14Vietnam.jpg.69b52d79c8047fc3756bb7f5c164e559.jpg


Edited by bies
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I wouldn't get too caught up in which DCS aircraft or versions actually flew there. Remember, we can create scenarios/missions with later or earlier model aircraft, or a mix. But yes, I would purchase each and every one of a good-sized set of aircraft modules for DCS that represent those of the Vietnam era.

 

What is really needed is a new method of producing DCS aircraft and maps. At current rate, I wouldn't expect a Vietnam Map until about 2026, at the earliest. That's too long!! Problem is, there doesn't seem to be a dedicated team working full-time on the modules and maps. It's apparently not a money-making thing. They need "day jobs" to survive. Perhaps there could be a DCS-Fan Funding/Investment scheme. Motivated fans purchase shares in their favorite aircraft to be developed. Perhaps $25 per share. The more you want a particular module, the more shares you purchase in advance (keeping in mind it's a risk and you are purchasing a reduction in time). Once a module's share sales reaches a certain quantity, production would begin, by what I'd hope would be a team of half a dozen or so dedicated, full-time developers. They won't replace or "take away from" the current 3rd party developers. But maybe they could produce two to four aircraft modules per year, depending on complexity. The return to the DCS fan is desired aircraft, sooner. Those who invest 2 or more shares in a module wouldn't have to purchase it when released. It needs more details than this, but maybe this is a good start on the idea.

 

The map itself needs to be about 700 nm wide by 900 nm north-to-south. But at varying levels of detail. Many areas would be just terrain and trees. Some of the flat areas away from the normal flight routes might be "photo" scenery.

 

The F-4 Phantom II has to be the primary aircraft of this Vietnam theater. And I don't think it should be created as only the F-4E. I would prefer a variety...the F-4B, F-4D and F-4E, at least. And there is not a tremendous difference between the C & D, so why not both? I would say the MiG-19P we already have would fit right in, even if it's not the exact version that was used, historically. Leatherneck Simulations should produce a MiG-21PF, since they already have the MiG-21bis. And DCS should produce the MiG-17F, since they already have the MiG-15, which is very similar.

 

The F-8J is already in progress by Leatherneck Simulations, we believe. I think that could represent the Crusader well enough. Unless they want to produce an F-8E, as well, while they're at it.

I would hope they would release an Essex-class carrier, too. This would have to be an SCB-27C modernized variant, with angled deck and 2 steam catapults. USS Oriskany would be an ideal example. The Phantom II does not operate from the Essex-class ships. Only the Crusader, Skyhawk, Skyraider, Skywarrior and Corsair II.

 

The A-7E is currently in production by FlyingIron Simulations. This will be awesome! It would be really awesome to have an A-7D version for the Air Force, as well (difference in air refueling system, for one thing).

 

The A-6A (or A-6E would do) is rumored to be on the list by someone...I haven't seen anything solid on that.

 

The A-4E Skyhawk needs to be made into a full module, by someone.  Update:  A-4E Community Mod is free and good-to-go!!  No need for "full" module.

 

The A-1 Skyraider. The makers of the P-47D Thunderbolt should be well experienced to make the A-1E, A-1H & A-1J Skyraiders...these would play key roles in close air support and downed-pilot rescue missions. The H & J being very similar single-seaters. The E version being a significantly different multi-seater.

 

The KA-3B (or EKA-3B) Skywarrior might be introduced as an AI-only aircraft and serve as ECM and Tanker for the carriers. The Air Force used essentially the same aircraft designated the EB-66 for ECM jamming.

 

Now for the Air Force:

The F-105D has to be the primary aircraft, after the "dual-service" Phantom II. The 2-seat F-105F and G models were used, too, as "Wild Weasel" aircraft. But the "D" is the one to concentrate on. And with these go the 3,000-lb, M118 bomb...a much larger cousin of the M117 750-lb bomb we have in DCS. Not to be confused with the Mk-118 bomblet used in Mk-20 Rockeye cluster bombs. In 1972, F-4D's carried a laser-guided version of the M118, known as the GBU-11 (in case anyone wanted to know what preceded the GBU-12 in the numbering system).

 

The F-100D is also an important aircraft for a Vietnam theater. The F-100D "Hun", flew more bombing missions than any other aircraft in Vietnam, I believe. The instrument panel and gunsight of the F-100 is very reminiscent of that of our F-86F Sabre. The F-100D carried 4 of the same, rapid-firing M39 20mm "revolver" cannons as the F-5E, producing a combined rate of fire similar to that of the M-61 Vulcan. But with only 200 rounds per gun, gave about 8 seconds of firing time. Well, that's eight 1-sec bursts.

 

Finally, revert the KC-135R in DCS to a KC-135A, with the old J-57 turbojet engines.

 

I haven't touched on the helicopters, observation and reconnaissance aircraft and the ships and ground vehicles.


Edited by Andrew8604
Update info on A-4E Mod
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The map offered above by Southernbear should be about 600 nm wide by 500 nm or 600nm tall. You HAVE to include Udorn, Korat and Takhli bases in Thailand. Those are where all the Route Pack V and Route Pack VI A missions of F-105's and F-4C's originated from. Don't necessarily have to have full detail level of vast stretches of land in between, though. Most of that would be overflown at high levels. (Except, of course, by the AI limping back at 500 feet AGL with a smoking plane...argghh)

 

Yes, the AI in DCS needs major attention! It is one of the weakest links in DCS. Particularly in the way AI flies aircraft and goes about missions. "I said attack only the tanks within the zone...and then go home." AI:"Ok, I will fire all my Maverick missiles at unarmored trucks and then go outside the zone and attack SAM and AAA sites. Then, if still alive, come back and attack the tanks with remaining 20mm cannon fire...being sure to fly within kill range of their 12.7mm, dead-on-accurate, hand-guided machine guns. Got it!" Me: "Arrgghhh!!" Unless I just don't understand the way the AI logic is arranged.

 

 

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On 7/26/2020 at 8:55 PM, ldb said:

All,

 

A humble proposal; expand the Vietnam map just a little to go from Taiwan to Singapore, then east to the Philippines. Then on that map, you could place:

 

Early World War II campaign as (or against) the American Volunteer Group, also know as the Flying Tigers.

 

A French air campaign against the Viet Minh.

 

The Vietnam War

 

And a modern, hypothetical conflict showing the Chinese infrastructure built on the reefs in the South China Sea.

 

 

I like your proposal, and if it could be done, it would indeed be a popular one!

 

The problem these days, is that  DCS is limited in map size. Specifically, if the map size and detail get too large, too much detail, it causes huge problems for framerates on the average DCS player's computers. That's the reason the map above mentions dimentions in miles.

 

Another issue is, making maps seems to take forever in DCS. It doesn't happen overnight. A much larger map size, like you propose, might take 4 years to create, and might not even run well on future computers with future RTX-7090TSI cards overclocked to burst into flames at a moment's notice! 

 

Buuuuuuttt... there IS hope that all these issues might change. Coding changes may make such map size limits a non-issue. New video cards might come with new advanced features that can crunch gigantic map sizes with no stuttering even for VR at 8k resolution. And map creation might be able to take a shortcut, if perhaps Asobo Studios, or some other company that builds on world-mapping, comes into ED-DCS world as a 3rd party developer.  it's all possible. Just don't EXPECT all that to happen.

 

I also would like to see a Korea map, for both the 1950's Korean war with Sabres and Migs, but also a modern version for Vipers and Hornets, and all the future stuff like Kiowas and Fulcrums, Hinds and whatnot.  Another map I'd love to see, is that which featured in a certain Eurofighter sim/game from the mid-1990's, which included Norway, Sweden, parts of Finland and a little Russia! But that map would be MASSSSSIVE... and lots of detail just from the mountain terrain alone, before considering cities lakes roads and bridges. But before I die, I wanna fly a virtual Eurofighter once again over the mountains of Norway, but in high resolution! 

 

 

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Ok yes, the Mig-21BIS is too late for the VN war.

 

However, the BIS is a later version of the '21. The early Mig-21 (not the BIS) did in fact fight over the jungle canopy, I'm certain of it. The first Mig-21's arrived in Vietnam in April of 1966. Thirteen of North Vietnam's Ace pilots shot down their adversaries using the Mig-21, so yea, it WAS in the war. Just not the later BIS variant. 

 

So yea... I dont know the differences myself, between the earlier Mig's versus the later BIS variant, but I doubt it's enough to prevent people from flying DCS '21 over a 'Nam-like map! 

 


Edited by Rick50
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