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Question about real life Hornet HOTAS


sirrah

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Recently I rediscovered the A-10C (tried the new cockpit and fell in love again :P). When I last flew it a few years ago I was still using the TM Cougar. Now I own the TM Warthog and obviously it is awesome to use the HOTAS capabilities.

 

I know the Hornet is still in EA and I'm not moaning about wanting to see this implemented right away. The Hornet is my favorite module already. I was just wondering, does the real Hornet have similar kind of HOTAS functionality as the Warthog?.

 

I mean being able to do the following stuff, whilst keeping hands on throttle and stick

  • Change waipoints
  • Set SPI (or something equivalent)
  • Automatic TGP slew to SPI (or equivalent)
  • Cycle through AG weapons
  • Cycle through countermeasure programs
  • Etc.

 

Even though the Hornet remains my favorite, I must say it is an absolute joy operating the Warthog with my HOTAS :joystick:

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Recently I rediscovered the A-10C (tried the new cockpit and fell in love again :P). When I last flew it a few years ago I was still using the TM Cougar. Now I own the TM Warthog and obviously it is awesome to use the HOTAS capabilities.

 

 

 

I know the Hornet is still in EA and I'm not moaning about wanting to see this implemented right away. The Hornet is my favorite module already. I was just wondering, does the real Hornet have similar kind of HOTAS functionality as the Warthog?.

 

 

 

I mean being able to do the following stuff, whilst keeping hands on throttle and stick

 


  •  
  • Change waipoints
     
  • Set SPI (or something equivalent)
     
  • Automatic TGP slew to SPI (or equivalent)
     
  • Cycle through AG weapons
     
  • Cycle through countermeasure programs
     
  • Etc.
     

 

 

 

Even though the Hornet remains my favorite, I must say it is an absolute joy operating the Warthog with my HOTAS :joystick:

 

Many of those are not possible in the hornet, unless you are imaginative with mode and buttons asignments... i've managed to get all the functions ive need including a2g mode, waypoints and weapons switching without taking my hands of the hotas (warthog +twcs throttle).

 

But you are right the A10C is a joy to operate with real HOTAS concept.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

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Many of those are not possible in the hornet, unless you are imaginative with mode and buttons asignments... i've managed to get all the functions ive need including a2g mode, waypoints and weapons switching without taking my hands of the hotas (warthog +twcs throttle).

 

But you are right the A10C is a joy to operate with real HOTAS concept.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

Isn't it strange that the older A-10 has better HOTAS functionality than the Hornet?

I would expect newer aircraft to at least have similar functionality, or more improved. Is there any logical reason for this?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Isn't it strange that the older A-10 has better HOTAS functionality than the Hornet?

 

I would expect newer aircraft to at least have similar functionality, or more improved. Is there any logical reason for this?

Because the A-10C got a more expensive upgrade with better system integration. The Hornet had its supposedly "better" MFDs and one Color MFD early with the C version. The military usually cuts corners to utilize the sparse budget, so they fixed the modern TGP and weapons into the older framework. For the A-10C upgrade, as far as I understand, they basically replaced most of the old analog weapon related systems and had the freedom and budget to integrate not only GPS and a TGP display, but a whole new operations concept based on the HOTAS.

On the other hand our "older" A-10C doesn't have a HMD/JHMCS that got upgraded into the Hornet...

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- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

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On the other hand our "older" A-10C doesn't have a HMD/JHMCS that got upgraded into the Hornet...

 

Hehe that's true

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Actually they have it in latest suites. They can use their helmet to look and create markpoints to later employ weapons on.

 

But basically the HOTAS concept is something more related to USN/USAF difference in priorities and employment concepts as far as i've been told, or even related to different manufacturers for the aircrafts, i dont know really.

 

What i know is that i think that perfect hotas integration is something that sometimes is not prioritised enough, even for newer planes, maybe due to not clear requirements in this regard or lack of knowledge on which the final systems will be during development, which cause that this is normally integrated later on in the life of such aircrafts/system. To give you an example i've recently heared an interview of an eurofighter typhoon pilot which explained that hotas integration was actually much worse in the typhoon over a viper (to the surprise of european f16 pilots) and because of that they needed to make change later on when they upgraded SW suites. In the case of the typhoon the reason was an excesive confidence in the VTAS (voice control inputs) for weapons enployment and other related task, which finally is not so adopted or liked by crews... (i've hears rumors about only recognising perfect british accent to the desperation of spanish and italian pilots XD)

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

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I can sure see why this stuff is tough to do no matter budget. Whether working a car, or a camera or other modern electronic device, I see a decreasing advantage to trying to do a lot w/ a little. Think about controls where you have menus and sub menus. Say there are 5 main menus #1-#5. each has 5 sub menus A-E. And each of them has 5 sub sub menus a-e. So now you are at 1,.B,e and need to do something else which is on 3, C, a. In a lot of cases it would be a heck of a lot easier to have separate buttons #1 -#5. I don't know how close the pilots usually are to the instrument panel (considering they need to be able to eject) but I could see that too much on the hotas could be less better than might be imagined.

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Many of those are not possible in the hornet, unless you are imaginative with mode and buttons asignments... i've managed to get all the functions ive need including a2g mode, waypoints and weapons switching without taking my hands of the hotas (warthog +twcs throttle).

 

But you are right the A10C is a joy to operate with real HOTAS concept.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

I am using same hotas as your.

Warthog stick and twcs throttle.

If do not mind sharing, will be great to see your key mappings for the Hornet, perhaps I could improve a few things here. Thanks

Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset

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Ya know it's also interesting the same Targeting POD functions and Controls are implemented differently across several airframes.

 

The AN/AAQ-28 is used on the A-10, F-16, F-18 and AV-8B...On the A-10...Zoom is on the Stick...On the F-16 its on the Throttle...On the F-18...Zoom is on the Throttle...On the Harrier...Zoom is MFD controlled.

 

As far as I know the mounting connections for the POD is the same no matter who is using it.

 

I am guessing this has to do with the wiring buses and what controls / switches can be accessed / programmed "easiest" to achieve the end result.

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I am using same hotas as your.

Warthog stick and twcs throttle.

If do not mind sharing, will be great to see your key mappings for the Hornet, perhaps I could improve a few things here. Thanks

I will share no problem, just cant until january 2nd since i'm away. I will also share a layout so its easier to understand. Bear in mind that you may find it strange at first but one of the strong points is that once set to my liking i've managed to keep the same buttons for the same function across different aircraft (eg. The selection of a2g mode, a2g weapon selection and scan/bar radar setting is the same for f18/f16/jf17 so its easier for me to switch airframes).

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

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I will share no problem, just cant until january 2nd since i'm away. I will also share a layout so its easier to understand. Bear in mind that you may find it strange at first but one of the strong points is that once set to my liking i've managed to keep the same buttons for the same function across different aircraft (eg. The selection of a2g mode, a2g weapon selection and scan/bar radar setting is the same for f18/f16/jf17 so its easier for me to switch airframes).

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

Great. Anytime. Will be very much appreciated.

It is so good to have same function of same keymap for different aircraft.

I was at a loss recently doing the new TWS engagement in the Hornet and pressing key function of the Viper . Had to watch Wags video again to relearn the Hornet keymap function for the radar.

Yours will come in handy in this case.

 

Cheers and happy holidays.

Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset

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I was flying the A-10C again last night and at one point during a mission I thought;

 

How incredibly powerful would it be if you could look at a target through HMCS, then set the point you're looking at as SPI and then auto slave the tpod (or ATFLIR) to the SPI.

 

Is there a chance we will eventually see something like this in the Hornet? Or has such a thing never been implemented in "our" Hornet?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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I was flying the A-10C again last night and at one point during a mission I thought;

 

 

 

How incredibly powerful would it be if you could look at a target through HMCS, then set the point you're looking at as SPI and then auto slave the tpod (or ATFLIR) to the SPI.

 

 

 

Is there a chance we will eventually see something like this in the Hornet? Or has such a thing never been implemented in "our" Hornet?

It is coming to the Hornet and the Viper.

Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset

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I was flying the A-10C again last night and at one point during a mission I thought;

 

 

 

How incredibly powerful would it be if you could look at a target through HMCS, then set the point you're looking at as SPI and then auto slave the tpod (or ATFLIR) to the SPI.

 

 

 

Is there a chance we will eventually see something like this in the Hornet? Or has such a thing never been implemented in "our" Hornet?

 

 

 

That should be possible, but in the Hornet there is not the SPI concept as in the A10 and F16

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SPI as a concept is just replaced by waypoint designation/designation. Pressing WPTDSG is the equivalent of setting SPI to waypoint. Slewing any sensor either moves the designation or makes a designation. Undesignating and redesignating is the equivalent of Cursor Zero in the F-16 (with the benefit of a clear difference between a navigation waypoint and a target designation.) Slewing a designation will move all sensors together unless you don't want them to be. Target points are like mark points that can be created, designated, and selected via HOTAS.

 

It's a pretty efficient system that isn't well understood like the F-16 or A-10 because it hasn't been well covered in flight sims. ED has miles to go before they do it justice.

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Thanks for the explanation

 

Sure hope, by the time it gets implemented, it'll also be covered by an interactive training mission (just like we have for the Hog)

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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I’ll send you mine, for a reference for bindings *of the F/A-18C and the TMWH.

 

 

I’d look for JHMCS and other goodies with the new “upcoming paid A10C suite.” Can’t imagine there will expect folks to be excited to pay for a “dirty pit.”

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)


Edited by Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Problem in those HOTAS systems ain't technology, but it is the engineers that are old school, then pilots who are old school, and then decision makers who are just old....

 

If one would give the hardware for a young (<40 years old) hacker, a couple good usability experts, they would make all the aircrafts designs far better than West have these days.

 

Even the F-35 is obsolete already by the technology design, way too "wannabe" and features that ain't really required.

 

But when the control systems are designed so that changing one button function requires months of approval via congress, it will not work....

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i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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As promised :)
Thanks. Welcome back and happy new year.

Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset

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Thanks. Welcome back and happy new year.

 

Same to you.

 

If you have any doubt about the profile just let me know, it can be tricky to understand at first.

 

Just some tips:

-You need to define a MODE switch in the joystick control panel for the secondary functionality of the buttons to work as defined in the layout attached.

-The profile assumes that your SA page is on the center MFD, the radar always on the right MFD and when in AG mode your storage page is on the left MFD.

 

Regards,

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