Reverse Mounted Gunpods ?

[504MrWolf]

My friend told me the Russian pilots whilst in Afganistan perfected a way of running one gunpod foward facing and one gunpod facing back, so they could do 2 attack runs in just one run !!!??

 

If this is true (which i dont doubt it not to be) how hard would it be to model this in 1.1 ???

 

Also will this weapon (forward facing) be added to the Su-25 vannila like it should be ??

 

Wolfie

[GGTharos]

Right ... and how do you aim the rear-facing gunpod again? I mean, you're shooting blind and all that ...

[SwingKid]

The weapon system uses the laser rangefinder, radio altimeter and pitot data to calculate the aiming solution of the chosen point on the ground as the pilot flies over it in level flight. The guns are depressed automatically. The forward gun fires on ingress and the reverse on egress. The point is not really to hit anything but to provide suppressive fire against MANPADS shooters while the Su-25 makes a getaway. It sounds cool but I'm not sure how well this would work in a sim environment against a mechanized opponent.

 

-SK

[SUBS17]

Thats the craziest thing I've heard. Are you sure hes not having you on?

Mind you its Afghanistan were talking here alot of crazy things happened there.

cheers

Subs

[Dmut]

GGTharos and SK are right.

There was some tests with rear-facing gunpods in Afghanistan, but they used it for supressing fire only, due to difficulty to really hit something.

[504MrWolf]

just thought it would be fun to have this in the game whether it was accurate or not, the Su25k has had the X25MP which from what i read isnt used in real life on that model ?

 

So why not add the reversable pod fun some fun Afgan stylee :D

[Avimimus]

Remeber that SU-39s have been shown at air shows with the R-77.

 

I know that the Su-22 has been seen carrying a rear facing SPPU-22 pod several times and that the pod is designed to be mounted either way.

 

What about a Ka-50 with a GUV-8700?

 

Will the Su-24 someday get the SPPU-6?

[Alfa]

Avimimus,

 

The Su-39 has been seen on airshows with the R-77 because it is fully compatible with this weapon ;)

 

Nothing strange about that :)

[BIOLOG]

From what I heard rear-facing pods have indeed been used, but only to scare majaheds away, while Su-25 gets out of there...

Btw gunpods, foward facing, will be in addon.

[Skywall23]

Btw gunpods, foward facing, will be in addon.

 

We know about that BIOLOG. :wink:

 

[Bimbac]

Hi everybody.

 

Su-17M4 (Su-22) can be fitted with one pair of SPPU facing forward and one pair facing backward, however only a forward-facing gunpods have the ability to change their depression angle. It is possible due to a targetting computer, which is able to provide a real-time firing solution but against a stationary target only. The circular aiming error is just about 6m (six meters!!), even when shooting backwards! A really accurate son-of-a-bitch! :D

 

Su-25, however, is not equipped with a targetting computer, just a simple ballistic computer. Thus it can also use the SPPU gunpods, but only in forward hemisphere. I don't have any information about more advanced Su-25 variants (like Su-25T or Su-39), but it is very likely that these aircraft have the appropriate equipment on-board, so they are able to use the gunpods in a same way as mentioned above.

 

This is a very simple explanation, but if needed, I can provide some more.

[Avimimus]

Avimimus,

 

The Su-39 has been seen on airshows with the R-77 because it is fully compatible with this weapon ;)

 

Nothing strange about that :)

 

What is strange is the fact that I realised the potential extension into BVR of Su-25 family in a dream sometime before it was actually made public...

This makes me cautious.

 

Bimbac, thank you for the information.

Do you know how is the SPPU-6 operated? Also does the version of the GUV-8700 with the AGS-17 (Palyna?) 30mm Grenade launcher, have the two 7.62mms or are they deleted?

 

Thank you

[tomcat1974]

SPPU-22 was a depresable only at a single ax ..meaning downward.

I could be mounted in normal position or in reverse position. The angle at which it ws fire was changeble in flight. Main purpos was for strafing colums :)

the SPPU-6 for Su24 could be oriented also sideways at 30 deg.

[Bimbac]

To Avimimus:

 

I'm not sure about your question. You have asked about the operation of the SPPU gunpod, but did you mean the way how it is controlled by a pilot or the actual function (firing mechanism, etc.)?

 

I am sorry, but I don't have any information about Russian helicopter weaponry.

[Avimimus]

Bimbac: My question is about the basic method used to direct the weapon to the target. After reading several poor sources I have three guesses:

1. Joystick control by the co-pilot

2. The system being enter with data for a certain speed and altitude, with the gunpod blindly following a preprogramed pattern.

3. Use of a gunsight or laser designator to select the target position and then the system remembering and tracking those co-ordinants.

[Alfa]

Hi,

 

On the Su-25T, the SPPU-22 gunpods can be aimed manually(in vertical plane) by elevating the barrels - the cockpit indication of this is a simple aiming retricle on the HUD moving accordingly.

 

However, they can also be aimed automatically via the Shkval system - i.e. the target is locked via the Shkval TV - then the laser designator is switched on and the gun aiming retricle is automatically alligned with the target by "slaving" the barrel elevation to the the laser beam :)

[GGTharos]

Cool - makes sense, too, same type of system used on Apaches and modern Russian helos as well to accurately aim their guns at distance.

[tomcat1974]

Hi,

 

On the Su-25T, the SPPU-22 gunpods can be aimed manually(in vertical plane) by elevating the barrels - the cockpit indication of this is a simple aiming retricle on the HUD moving accordingly.

 

However, they can also be aimed automatically via the Shkval system - i.e. the target is locked via the Shkval TV - then the laser designator is switched on and the gun aiming retricle is automatically alligned with the target by "slaving" the barrel elevation to the the laser beam :)

 

Alfa .. I just hope it moves only in vertical.SPPU-22(with GSh-23-same gunused in Mig21) it doesn't move sideways,it can be depressed down. The one that move to the side also is SPPU-6 (Gsh-6-23 gatling on it)

[Alfa]

Hello Horatiu :)

 

The barrels can only be moved the vertical plane - to aim them horizontally you need to move the aircraft ;)

[Bimbac]

Bimbac: My question is about the basic method used to direct the weapon to the target. After reading several poor sources I have three guesses:

1. Joystick control by the co-pilot

2. The system being enter with data for a certain speed and altitude, with the gunpod blindly following a preprogramed pattern.

3. Use of a gunsight or laser designator to select the target position and then the system remembering and tracking those co-ordinants.

 

All 3 guesses are almost correct. The system can be pre-programmed during the mission preparation (good in poor visibility or during night missions, however target must not move and have the known coordinates), or controlled directly by a pilot. The SPPU-22 has 3 operation modes:

 

1. 0 angle - good for airborne targets or diving strafing runs. The guns are pointed directly ahead.

2. Programmed mode - target data entered either by waypoint or acquired using gunsight and laser designator. The pilot simply pushes the trigger and the system autonomously computes firing solution (in this mode the barrels automatically follow the target).

3. Fixed mode - pilot controls the barrel depression manually using hat switch on the control column.

 

I hope this helps. However it's been a long time since I worked with these things, so my explanation can be a little inaccurate.

[Avimimus]

Bimbac: My question is about the basic method used to direct the weapon to the target. After reading several poor sources I have three guesses:

1. Joystick control by the co-pilot

2. The system being enter with data for a certain speed and altitude, with the gunpod blindly following a preprogramed pattern.

3. Use of a gunsight or laser designator to select the target position and then the system remembering and tracking those co-ordinants.

 

All 3 guesses are almost correct. The system can be pre-programmed during the mission preparation (good in poor visibility or during night missions, however target must not move and have the known coordinates), or controlled directly by a pilot. The SPPU-22 has 3 operation modes:

 

1. 0 angle - good for airborne targets or diving strafing runs. The guns are pointed directly ahead.

2. Programmed mode - target data entered either by waypoint or acquired using gunsight and laser designator. The pilot simply pushes the trigger and the system autonomously computes firing solution (in this mode the barrels automatically follow the target).

3. Fixed mode - pilot controls the barrel depression manually using hat switch on the control column.

 

I hope this helps. However it's been a long time since I worked with these things, so my explanation can be a little inaccurate.

 

Cool! Thank you very much!

 

It is amazing how hard it is to get good information in the west.

You actually worked around these things?

[Bimbac]

To Avimimus:

 

Well, not exactly. I am an aicraft technician and a few years ago I worked with Su-22M4 (export version of Su-17M4). Thus I got pretty well acquainted with its weapons and avionics. There are many commonalities with Su-25. But I still have some friends who actually worked with Su-25, including weapons. So, I can get some pretty detailed info :D However, because we are still in active duty, don't expect to get anything classified.

[Olgerd]

To Bimbac

 

Actually we have not any official info on ASP-17 version installed on Su-25. Can you help with tech a description on working modes and an indication/switchology?

 

Many thanks in advance. :wink:

[Bimbac]

To Bimbac

 

Actually we have not any official info on ASP-17 version installed on Su-25. Can you help with tech a description on working modes and an indication/switchology?

 

Many thanks in advance. :wink:

 

I'm on it! Hold on. :)

[Olgerd]

To Bimbac

 

Actually we have not any official info on ASP-17 version installed on Su-25. Can you help with tech a description on working modes and an indication/switchology?

 

Many thanks in advance. :wink:

 

I'm on it! Hold on. :)

 

Two. Copy, hold... :wink: