Goodbye VR... for now at least.

[etherbattx]

i hope so, but right now the large game development companies are pulling funding away from VR, claiming the market is to small and adoption to slow.

[OttoPus]

In five years DCS will be even more demanding to run than it is now unless you’re assuming that all progress on the sim is going to be put on hold while VR catches up. The performance goalpost will always keep moving and running a game in 3D at high frame rates will always be more demanding than running 2D at lower fps. That’s never going to change so VR will always suffer with performance issues in games designed primarily to run in 2D. I would be glad to be proven wrong but I can’t see complex sims like this ever performing well in VR

I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

I think instead that the push to VR will flip things.

take in example the responsiveness of websites: in the old times you would develop desktop first and then adapt the experience to the mobile world with compromises.

 

Now it's the exact opposite.

 

In a similar fashion, in the following years I expect more and more "VR first" tech developing approach.

[SharpeXB]

I think instead that the push to VR will flip things.

take in example the responsiveness of websites: in the old times you would develop desktop first and then adapt the experience to the mobile world with compromises.

 

Now it's the exact opposite.

 

In a similar fashion, in the following years I expect more and more "VR first" tech developing approach.

Not enough people are using VR for that to be feasible.

[eaglecash867]

Not enough people are using VR for that to be feasible.

 

Heh...statements like this remind me of my own in the early 2000s. "Amazon? Yeah...like selling books on line is gonna go anywhere..." :doh:

[SharpeXB]

Heh...statements like this remind me of my own in the early 2000s. "Amazon? Yeah...like selling books on line is gonna go anywhere..." :doh:

Again, I’ll believe it when I see it. Right now VR gaming is about 1% of PC and 4% on the PS4 and zero % on the Xbox. It faces a chicken and egg dilemma that there isn’t enough hardware to drive software sales and not enough software to encourage hardware purchase.

[dburne]

Not enough people are using VR for that to be feasible.

 

Must be why Valve decided to not release the next Half Life as a VR Title.

Oh wait...

 

:music_whistling:

 

A full-length game built from the ground up for virtual reality.

https://www.half-life.com/en/alyx

Edited January 18, 2020 by dburne

[Kirk66]

Google "Pilot Training Next"; the US military (and the USAF in particular) is going into VR training for aircrews big-time.

 

Same with companies like Varjo with their XR-1 MR headset and VR-2 Pro VR with hand tracking headset - which are deliberately aimed at flight training, among others.

 

It will take a while (I wish I could afford what the military buys!) but the tech should trickle down pretty fast - think GPS or Lasers!

 

What irritates me is that I'm about to retire from my (second) career in fighter flight simulation test and development just as the company I work for has finally realized VR is the future! I may have to hang on for a while as a part-timer just to play with the new toys!

 

Vulture

[JUICE-AWG]

I had a very similar experience with the Valve Index, with PC specs exactly like yours.

 

We are not there yet, but very, very close. It's a matter of just 2-3 years imho.

 

It will be an incredible experience, in the meantime I'll stick and enjoy 2D with decent sharpness and performance.

Amen to that Brother!

 

 

Google "Pilot Training Next"; the US military (and the USAF in particular) is going into VR training for aircrews big-time.

 

Same with companies like Varjo with their XR-1 MR headset and VR-2 Pro VR with hand tracking headset - which are deliberately aimed at flight training, among others.

 

It will take a while (I wish I could afford what the military buys!) but the tech should trickle down pretty fast - think GPS or Lasers!

 

What irritates me is that I'm about to retire from my (second) career in fighter flight simulation test and development just as the company I work for has finally realized VR is the future! I may have to hang on for a while as a part-timer just to play with the new toys!

 

Vulture

 

 

My hope is that the Military interest sparks advancement and innovation needed to make main-stream VR a 100% capable reality!

 

 

It’s possible that complex sims like DCS will never perform well in VR. It’s not something “wrong” with the game engine, it’s the very nature of VR. Look at VTOL VR, that’s the level of game that would actually perform well in VR and it’s way short of the complexity in DCS

 

People with the strongest hardware available (the OP has an i7-9700K, 32GB DDR4 and an RTX 2080 Ti !) struggle to get DCS running in constant reprojection mode. Not even able to run the headsets at their intended refresh rate.

 

I see myself staying away from VR for a very long time. Until resolution and performance improve greatly.

 

 

The capability of the SIM and PC/GPU Processing surely out performs current VR capabilities...will have to press VR MFGrs to innovate and adapt to current capabilities.

Edited January 18, 2020 by =JUICE=

[eaglecash867]

Must be why Valve decided to not release the next Half Life as a VR Title.

Oh wait...

 

:music_whistling:

 

 

https://www.half-life.com/en/alyx

 

That makes me wish that somebody would come up with decent hand controllers for WMR headsets. Somebody finding a way to get the Oculus Touch working with WMR would be awesome.

[GunSlingerAUS]

Google "Pilot Training Next"; the US military (and the USAF in particular) is going into VR training for aircrews big-time.

 

Same with companies like Varjo with their XR-1 MR headset and VR-2 Pro VR with hand tracking headset - which are deliberately aimed at flight training, among others.

 

It will take a while (I wish I could afford what the military buys!) but the tech should trickle down pretty fast - think GPS or Lasers!

 

What irritates me is that I'm about to retire from my (second) career in fighter flight simulation test and development just as the company I work for has finally realized VR is the future! I may have to hang on for a while as a part-timer just to play with the new toys!

 

Vulture

 

Wow what an awesome job you have! I’d love to have a chat to you about what you did and the equipment you use. I still do a little freelance writing about technology and I think we could probably come up with a good story here.

[TOYKILLA]

Yep,its a pleasure to train DCS in VR with +3000x+3000 PpE every Day. They will have a lot fun.

 

 

 

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[BigDuke6ixx]

2d flying and racing is a no go for me after VR. My nearly 4yr old pc and CV1 run DCS like a dream. I can operate the A-10C without any problems at all in VR. Didn’t have to do much tweaking to achieve smooth as silk results.

 

2d DCS is totally sad compared to VR.

[Hadwell]

VR is better only in that you have two viewpoints, depth perception...

 

other than that, in every single other way, including how much weight you have on your head/face, field of view, colour reproduction, contrast ratio, resolution, pixel clarity, just downright size of the image, most importantly framerates and the ability to use higher graphics settings, 2D is better...

 

you may say head tracking makes the big difference, but trackir and 1:1 tracking are both good for different reasons too...

 

trackIR you can still see around you (like your keyboard and joystick) and the game at the same time, and you don't need to turn your whole body just to look behind you, just a little tilt in any direction does it all

 

1:1 head tracking is more natural, and that's basically it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Hadwell

[TOYKILLA]

VR is better only in that you have two viewpoints, depth perception...

 

other than that, in every single other way, including field of view, colour reproduction, contrast ratio, resolution, pixel clarity, just downright size of the image, most importantly framerates and the ability to use higher graphics settings, 2D is better...

 

you may say head tracking makes the big difference, but trackir and 1:1 tracking are both good for different reasons too...

 

trackIR you can still see around you (like your keyboard and joystick) and the game at the same time, and you don't need to turn your whole body just to look behind you, just a little tilt in any direction does it all

 

1:1 head tracking is more natural, and that's basically it.

You can't compare VR vs 2D Screen gaming, it's a different World. I have also a 32:9 49" Samsung 144Hz Monitor and TrackIR 5 on my Simulator, but even this Setup is lightyears behind the DCS VR Experience with the HP Reverb and a High End System, with Motion and Simshaker.

 

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[Hadwell]

I use an LG 55C9 OLED display, and it is the most beautiful thing i've ever seen... once you go OLED, everything else just seems crap....

[RustBelt]

 

1:1 head tracking is more natural, and that's basically it.

 

Except that's not the whole story. Your brain is designed to process where you are in relation to where you're looking. Just tipping your head 10 to 20 degrees off center isn't enough to make that trick work. Watch any Guns only Dogfights where one opponent has TrackIR and the other is under a good VR rig. (especially in WWII fighters) The VR pilot is much more in tune with the plane and the maneuvers than the guy looking through a 25-50 inch window dead ahead of them.

 

The problem is for true VR leaps of quality 2D is going to have to be left behind. Right now it's a hodge podge of half and half. As long as that's still the case, VR as well as 2D will always be a series of compromises.

[TOYKILLA]

It's a comparison between Gaming and Simulation. I was Playing DCS on a 40" Triple Screen back in 2011 on my first Motion-Simulator

 

@ micsmotionsimulator

Edited January 19, 2020 by TOYKILLA

[eaglecash867]

Except that's not the whole story. Your brain is designed to process where you are in relation to where you're looking. Just tipping your head 10 to 20 degrees off center isn't enough to make that trick work. Watch any Guns only Dogfights where one opponent has TrackIR and the other is under a good VR rig. (especially in WWII fighters) The VR pilot is much more in tune with the plane and the maneuvers than the guy looking through a 25-50 inch window dead ahead of them.

 

The problem is for true VR leaps of quality 2D is going to have to be left behind. Right now it's a hodge podge of half and half. As long as that's still the case, VR as well as 2D will always be a series of compromises.

 

+1

 

That work that your brain does in the background is the same thing that allows us all to walk without falling over or crashing into walls. Manuevering for a kill shot in a dogfight is far superior in VR because of your brain's instinctual responses to spatial relationships. Evading AAA and SAM fire is also far superior to anything possible with 2D. Now, not only can you acquire the incoming fire MUCH quicker, but you can keep your eyes on it and know exactly where it is in 3 dimensions.

[dburne]

+1

 

That work that your brain does in the background is the same thing that allows us all to walk without falling over or crashing into walls. Manuevering for a kill shot in a dogfight is far superior in VR because of your brain's instinctual responses to spatial relationships. Evading AAA and SAM fire is also far superior to anything possible with 2D. Now, not only can you acquire the incoming fire MUCH quicker, but you can keep your eyes on it and know exactly where it is in 3 dimensions.

 

Oh yeah most definitely this !

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

I will tell ya what. Situational awareness is a two way street like everything else in VR. If you know who and where the baddie is, or its a VR friendly server where its “flagged” it puts you at an immense advantage in the 3d space. Your brain just projects your orientation on the field of battle in a way that’s unmatched IMO.

That said, if I move to a server without flags or labels, forget about it. I spend so much time looking and trying to identify what type of aircraft, If I see it at all then figure out good or bad, that all I end up doing is flying around until I’m hit.

I guess

It really depends on your objectives. If your flying a big scenario based deal where you know directions, aircraft type plus Awacs and datalink. Your good. Pvp its a tossup without marks or labels

I’ll never go 2d tho but thats me. .

[BigDuke6ixx]

I use an LG 55C9 OLED display, and it is the most beautiful thing i've ever seen... once you go OLED, everything else just seems crap....

 

Yeah, right. Have you always suffered badly from buyer's remorse?

[Fri13]

When HDR 4K VR HMD arrives, it will be amazing to current ones....

Even alone HDR FHD VR HMD would be amazing, and no, OLED does nothing like that.

 

But HDR HMD would likely cost 2-3 grands, so it is out of the question for most.

[SharpeXB]

The problem is for true VR leaps of quality 2D is going to have to be left behind.

That won’t be acceptable for games that are primarily intended to be run in 2D. And the vast majority of potential customers for a sim like DCS are buying it for use on a monitor. Typical VR users buy games like VTOL VR, not hardcore simulations. Making DCS look like a “VR game” would kill it in the marketplace.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Gladman]

That won’t be acceptable for games that are primarily intended to be run in 2D. And the vast majority of potential customers for a sim like DCS are buying it for use on a monitor. Typical VR users buy games like VTOL VR, not hardcore simulations. Making DCS look like a “VR game” would kill it in the marketplace.

 

lmao :megalol:

[dburne]

That won’t be acceptable for games that are primarily intended to be run in 2D. And the vast majority of potential customers for a sim like DCS are buying it for use on a monitor. Typical VR users buy games like VTOL VR, not hardcore simulations. Making DCS look like a “VR game” would kill it in the marketplace.

 

Not really.