Goodbye VR... for now at least.

[BigDuke6ixx]

No, just the native refresh rate of the headsets ie 80 or 90hz

ASW was meant to be a fallback in case the rate couldn’t be maintained and avoid occasional dips. DCS needs to run constantly in that mode which generates all sorts of artifacts, as described in the OP (and this is with literally the strongest machine available today) Continual frame doubling is a silly solution, nobody would accept this on a 2D screen as a substitute for a genuine frame rate.

When I said “tailored for VR” I meant a game specifically designed to be able to achieve this frame rate at all times. That would mean a game built from the ground up for VR and it would have to lack all the detailed models, terrain etc that you see in DCS. Essentially it would be something like VTOL. Look how simplistic that game is compared to DCS. But I’m sure it gets the frame rate.

 

ASW is silky smooth on my setup. Only time I have frame rate issues is when taxiing on airfields with lots of ground clutter.

 

2D isn't full level simulation anymore. 2D is more like flying from a drone station. DCS in 2D is just a novelty gaming experience.

[pimp]

...2D isn't full level simulation anymore. 2D is more like flying from a drone station...

:megalol:Perfect description. Well said.

[SharpeXB]

I don't think DCS would have to look like VTOL to hit 100FPS, but it would need to be rewritten from scratch

A VR version would have to be about as simplistic looking as you see in VTOL. That level of graphics wouldn’t sell for the people who expect what you see in 2D so yeah it would likely have to be rewritten as a completely different version of the sim. I doubt there are enough VR users to support that yet.

[Baldrick33]

A VR version would have to be about as simplistic looking as you see in VTOL. That level of graphics wouldn’t sell for the people who expect what you see in 2D so yeah it would likely have to be rewritten as a completely different version of the sim. I doubt there are enough VR users to support that yet.

Race sim titles haven't gone down the simplistic graphics route and run great in VR at native refresh rates. Interestingly the older graphics engine of one easily outperforms and looks better than the newer Unreal4 engine version of its successor.

 

There are a bunch of VR games that look cartoony to run on low spec hardware, be it potato PCs or standalone headsets but sim racing and flight sim enthusiasts aren't typically the same market.

 

Hopefully the recent advances in VR performance in certain race sims to support nVidia Turing Architecture can be applied. My 2D performance experience with DCS and said race sim is pretty much identical.

 

IMHO VTOL is chasing a completely different market than DCS in VR and is a red herring as to what we should expect going forward.

[Svsmokey]

Ya'll are only encouraging our resident VR troll :) Fact is he'll be dead before VR reaches his expectations . That's his problem , not mine , or ours . But we would all be better off ignoring closed-mindedness , and working together to improve the experience rather than counter-arguing the facetious and spurious positions of one who will never have any DCS VR experience , and yet can't help but insert himself in the DCS VR forum at every opportunity .

[SharpeXB]

Race sim titles haven't gone down the simplistic graphics route and run great in VR at native refresh rates.

I don’t imagine racing sims have to draw as many objects as flight sims. Indeed if I ever tried VR it would be for those because they’re easier all around like having less controls etc.

[Wali763]

Ya'll are only encouraging our resident VR troll :) Fact is he'll be dead before VR reaches his expectations . That's his problem , not mine , or ours . But we would all be better off ignoring closed-mindedness , and working together to improve the experience rather than counter-arguing the facetious and spurious positions of one who will never have any DCS VR experience , and yet can't help but insert himself in the DCS VR forum at every opportunity .

 

I dont like your attitude, calling people not supporting your religion 'closed-minded' or troll.

But DCS-VR seems to be religion for many people in the way, they do not accept different approaches.

 

For me VR especially looking at the hardware requirements right now for a relativly mediocre result is far from 'being there'. When I was young, SVGA was the greatest. Luckyly those times are over and Im sure DCS-VR will look great too in a few years. Right now its not for me.

[Svsmokey]

I dont like your attitude, calling people not supporting your religion 'closed-minded' or troll.

But DCS-VR seems to be religion for many people in the way, they do not accept different approaches.

 

For me VR especially looking at the hardware requirements right now for a relativly mediocre result is far from 'being there'. When I was young, SVGA was the greatest. Luckyly those times are over and Im sure DCS-VR will look great too in a few years. Right now its not for me.

 

That's fine . VR is not for everyone . But i was referencing one who regularly trolls the VR forums . How would you like it if someone routinely pisses in your sandbox , with essentially nothing new to say ?

As to system required to enjoy VR in DCS , check my signature . Do i want more ? Certainly ! But i'm having a blast with what i have .

I do agree that i am somewhat evangelical regarding VR and DCS , but i apologise for being so for neither . Perhaps if you had been waiting for 30 years for this conjunction of technology , you would be excited about it's fruition as well .

[Wali763]

Just thought of a funny comparison:

 

Monitor is like the middlesection of a Playboy-magazin, VR is like what we got at home. BIG difference! Actually Im not looking forward to the progress in 20 years! :lol:

[Svsmokey]

:thumbup:

[SharpeXB]

But i was referencing one who regularly trolls the VR forums .

Responding to a post is not trolling. Everyone gets to post here even if they disagree or have different opinions.

[TOYKILLA]

A VR version would have to be about as simplistic looking as you see in VTOL. That level of graphics wouldn’t sell for the people who expect what you see in 2D so yeah it would likely have to be rewritten as a completely different version of the sim. I doubt there are enough VR users to support that yet.

No,look at iRacing. It comes from a Monitor Simulation to a excellent VR experience

 

@ micsmotionsimulator

[eaglecash867]

Just thought of a funny comparison:

 

Monitor is like the middlesection of a Playboy-magazin, VR is like what we got at home. BIG difference! Actually Im not looking forward to the progress in 20 years! :lol:

 

Heh...for me, its just the opposite. The monitor looks good, but she's flat as a board. :D

 

To each his own though, and you're not going to find me going to TIR-related threads and telling everybody there that their way is wrong. Seems to be a lot of that coming the other direction though. Just sayin'.:smilewink:

[Zaphod]

Despite running a 55" monitor and trackir pro, I can barely fly without VR. It's just not the same experience. VR in DCS is the best.

[SharpeXB]

No,look at iRacing. It comes from a Monitor Simulation to a excellent VR experience

 

@ micsmotionsimulator

I don’t think a racing sim has anywhere near the number of objects or distances to render as a flight sim does. Or the cockpit detail. There has to be a clear reason for the performance difference. Otherwise you’d be seeing 90fps in DCS already.

iRacing is kinda dated too graphically. What about ACC? That’s a gorgeous looking game and I’ll bet it chokes VR

[Svsmokey]

Responding to a post is not trolling. Everyone gets to post here even if they disagree or have different opinions.

 

You have made many , many posts in VR forums for at least a year , on a subject in which you have made clear you have no interest nor experience . That is the very definition of trolling , As that gentle soul Dburne pointed out , when you exasperated even he , we don't visit the A10C forums if we have no interest in that aircraft .

 

Just because someone CAN do something , doesn't mean they SHOULD , and the opinions of one who has no DCS VR experience , expressed in the DCS VR forums , are valueless .

Edited January 21, 2020 by Svsmokey

[SharpeXB]

You have made many , many posts in VR forums for at least a year , on a subject in which you have made clear you have no interest nor experience . That is the very definition of trolling . As that gentle soul Dburne pointed out , when you exasperated even he , we don't visit the A10C forums if we have no interest in that aircraft .

Everybody gets to read the forums, this isn’t a secret discussion site. And who says I’m not interested in VR? I might be if it performed and worked well enough.

[deez]

VR

 

I guess I'm fortunate enough that my computer runs the oculus rift efficiently enough that I never had any insurmountable resolution issues, but what are you VR users doing about controls that are not mapped to a HOTAS? It's cool to fly around and check out the scenery, but I wasn't able to come up with a viable method of clicking switches in the cockpit without pausing the game and going back to the handsets. And the handsets are a terrible substitute for HOTAS.

 

MY favorite module is the F-14. I like being able to switch between front and back seats. I'd love to hear what others have done to overcome this limitations between handset and HOTAS.

[Svsmokey]

Everybody gets to read the forums, this isn’t a secret discussion site. And who says I’m not interested in VR? I might be if it performed and worked well enough.

 

 

Seems to work well enough for many . It's your choice if you choose to be dead before it meets your expectations . I'm not going to engage you further as i do not wish to encourage trollish behavior .

[Svsmokey]

I guess I'm fortunate enough that my computer runs the oculus rift efficiently enough that I never had any insurmountable resolution issues, but what are you VR users doing about controls that are not mapped to a HOTAS? It's cool to fly around and check out the scenery, but I wasn't able to come up with a viable method of clicking switches in the cockpit without pausing the game and going back to the handsets. And the handsets are a terrible substitute for HOTAS.

 

MY favorite module is the F-14. I like being able to switch between front and back seats. I'd love to hear what others have done to overcome this limitations between handset and HOTAS.

 

Personally , i use a trackball and VoiceAttack . The Vaicom Pro add-on for VoiceAttack also increases immersion , as it allows natural comms with AI , and the subsequent losing of comms menus .

 

You might also look into Point Control by Miles as a "mouse" solution . There is a (very active) thread in the main input/output section .

[Mathius_001]

In regards to the HOTAS in VR, I use the Orbweaver Chroma located next to the throttle and CH products Stick and throttle. I prefer the CH Products for its light feel. This gives around 67 keys/buttons to designate to functions in the first instance before changing modes etc. A lot of buttons are even easier to click with the mouse which is located to the right of the stick. I have a controls button template for each Module that I fill in for reference. After playing for a while in 2d to get the feel of a module I then play in VR without having to pause or look outside of the headset, mission after mission.

 

 

Gaming in VR is the next level. And having just gone from Vive Pro to Reverb is simply stunning.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mathius_001

[dburne]

Ya'll are only encouraging our resident VR troll :) Fact is he'll be dead before VR reaches his expectations . That's his problem , not mine , or ours . But we would all be better off ignoring closed-mindedness , and working together to improve the experience rather than counter-arguing the facetious and spurious positions of one who will never have any DCS VR experience , and yet can't help but insert himself in the DCS VR forum at every opportunity .

 

:thumbup:

 

It is not just this forum either. It seems to be a crusade against VR now.

[Baldrick33]

I don’t think a racing sim has anywhere near the number of objects or distances to render as a flight sim does. Or the cockpit detail. There has to be a clear reason for the performance difference. Otherwise you’d be seeing 90fps in DCS already.

iRacing is kinda dated too graphically. What about ACC? That’s a gorgeous looking game and I’ll bet it chokes VR

iRacing looks fantastic compared with VTOL VR, no need for simple graphics. Plus it abandoned Long Beach for now as being too onerous in 2D for trackside objects, the latest tracks have a lot of detail, throw in 20-30 cars to display, animated pit crews and marshals and it can push 2D to the limit. Think how DCS chokes on the ground with lots of vehicles and buildings and that is what racing sims have to cope with. I get similar FPS in 2D to DCS. It has seen great improvements in VR in recent builds especially for 20 series nvidia cards as the engineers have embraced the new features.

 

ACC is horrid in VR, not so much from a performance aspect but it just looks horrid compared with iRacing (or AC for that matter). Not sure why, I can't imagine the Unreal4 engine is unusable in VR but this implementation is probably the worst current VR supported sim racing title.

 

It is still early days and software engineers are still getting to grips with a rapidly changing environment. Exciting for some of us, frustrating for others :)

[dburne]

I guess I'm fortunate enough that my computer runs the oculus rift efficiently enough that I never had any insurmountable resolution issues, but what are you VR users doing about controls that are not mapped to a HOTAS? It's cool to fly around and check out the scenery, but I wasn't able to come up with a viable method of clicking switches in the cockpit without pausing the game and going back to the handsets. And the handsets are a terrible substitute for HOTAS.

 

MY favorite module is the F-14. I like being able to switch between front and back seats. I'd love to hear what others have done to overcome this limitations between handset and HOTAS.

 

Between HOTAS and Voice Attack with Vaicom Pro, I am set for VR.

I also have mouse buttons/scrolling set to my HOTAS.

Spent several hours in VR today, most awesome!!

[eaglecash867]

I guess I'm fortunate enough that my computer runs the oculus rift efficiently enough that I never had any insurmountable resolution issues, but what are you VR users doing about controls that are not mapped to a HOTAS? It's cool to fly around and check out the scenery, but I wasn't able to come up with a viable method of clicking switches in the cockpit without pausing the game and going back to the handsets. And the handsets are a terrible substitute for HOTAS.

 

MY favorite module is the F-14. I like being able to switch between front and back seats. I'd love to hear what others have done to overcome this limitations between handset and HOTAS.

 

I just have my keyboard and mouse on my right side and use the mouse to click switches. Its a little clunky at first, but you quickly get used to it. Every mission that I fly in the A-10C I edit to have a ramp start in the beginning, so I've trained myself to be able to look around the cockpit and flip switches really quickly using the mouse.