Superb Fighter!

[FlankerMan]

I haven't had a chance to buy this yet (believe me, I will eventually, it and the Persian Gulf are my next two), but I tried it in various AI vs AI scenarios, and it performed very well. Against equal numbers F-15Cs and F-16CMs with AIM-120Bs and Cs it came out on top, and there were even a few one-shot BVR kills with the SD-10; looks like we've finally got something to counter the Eagle and AMRAAM.

[shaHeen-1]

Eagle is my most killed in jf17. It's actually harder to fight the full fidelity planes because you can't jam them.

[Tiger-II]

Eagle is my most killed in jf17. It's actually harder to fight the full fidelity planes because you can't jam them.

 

This needs fixing ASAP! Deka out-did everyone here (honorable mention to the MiG-21 for its jamming target representation), but sadly that puts the Jeff at a disadvantage.

[Mr_sukebe]

From our experiences so far, it appears to be a decent but not great platform, with good missiles.

Just doesn’t have the grunt of the F18, F14 or Mirage.

The F16 should probably not be judged as yet as it’s still very early in access and I’m guessing that it’s down on power when compared to where it should be.

[shaHeen-1]

From our experiences so far, it appears to be a decent but not great platform, with good missiles.

Just doesn’t have the grunt of the F18, F14 or Mirage.

The F16 should probably not be judged as yet as it’s still very early in access and I’m guessing that it’s down on power when compared to where it should be.

 

Our? Might I assume you are speaking for the British people?

[Mr_sukebe]

Referring to the group of us within the squadron who’ve tested it against the other aircraft

[shaHeen-1]

Mirage can't be compared to any 4th gen fighter in dcs. It doesn't have fox3s or targeting pod with variety of munitions.

[Mr_sukebe]

Mirage can't be compared to any 4th gen fighter in dcs. It doesn't have fox3s or targeting pod with variety of munitions.

 

The Mirage is very much a 4th gen fighter with a very effective fly by wire system.

The OP was about the aircrafts A2A capability, so the lack of targeting pod is simply irrelevant.

Ref the lack of Fox3 missiles, agreed, however the Fox1 missiles it does carry are very good for their type as a result of the radar on board the Mirage. As an aircraft, it’s a lot better than the specs might make you think.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Mr_sukebe

[Terrorban]

Like OP said, this jet can perform quite well in battle against other nato jets. The mentions of any mass killing of any adversary is just a fanboy claim.

 

The immature replies such as "this can kill that" jibberish should not be taken seriously and ignored.

 

In DCS we should all admire the developers efforts to simulation and not focus on what jet is better than what while stating unprovable claims.

 

Please do not be dragged into pointless topic battle with obvious fanboys, this will never end. If you guys really want to prove your claims to each other so badly, do it in PvP match and not over the forums.

[shaHeen-1]

The fk are you on about? Don't bring whatever someone said to you in other threads here.

[shaHeen-1]

The Mirage is very much a 4th gen fighter with a very effective fly by wire system.

The OP was about the aircrafts A2A capability, so the lack of targeting pod is simply irrelevant.

Ref the lack of Fox3 missiles, agreed, however the Fox1 missiles it does carry are very good for their type as a result of the radar on board the Mirage. As an aircraft, it’s a lot better than the specs might make you think.

 

I don't disagree with what you say. I'm saying that it doesn't really line up against other modules in dcs because it's a bit too different in how it works. Partly due to limited systems and weapons. I love the damn thing. It was my first high fidelity module and I'm the most proficient in it compared to my hornet and Jeff. I'm just a bit sad that razbam hasn't found an excuse to stick a fox3 on it. If any module deserves it it's this one. That damn radio upgrade almost made it harder to operate lol. XD

[AeriaGloria]

You know they are making 2000-5 right..... A MiG-29/Su-27 or even American planes before AMRAAM are pretty comparable with just fox 1 BVR baguette. Easy to forget in DCS how close all the planes were in late cold war

[shaHeen-1]

That's what I'm saying tho. In dcs. Right now. The mirage needs some fox3 love. It's going to put every other module in its place. No hornets, no jeffs. Baguette will rule all.

[Harlikwin]

That's what I'm saying tho. In dcs. Right now. The mirage needs some fox3 love. It's going to put every other module in its place. No hornets, no jeffs. Baguette will rule all.

 

Yeah too bad it doesn't actually carry one IRL. That's why it doesn't have one. And at least Raz isn't looking for lame excuses to "stick one on".

 

Go play on some of the colder war servers that restrict fox3's and you'll see it do well. Hell even on many of the MP servers with fox3's it does ok.

[FlankerMan]

Perhaps I shouldn't have said the JF-17 is so incredibly good, but rather that the SD-10 can outperform the AIM-120C (from what I've seen, anyways), and this has gotten me rather excited; it's not a Russian missile, but it's still red. Apologies if I was misunderstood.

[shaHeen-1]

Sd10 does not outperform the amraam. Certainly not after the last patches which buffed amraam. But you can trade with f16s who think it's safe to do anything less than go cold against SD10 within 20nm XD. So funny to get shot down by amraam but seeing the hit indicator that you got the f16 too a few seconds later XD. Poor guys dive so hard. Straight into second SD10 XD.

[Harlikwin]

Perhaps I shouldn't have said the JF-17 is so incredibly good, but rather that the SD-10 can outperform the AIM-120C (from what I've seen, anyways), and this has gotten me rather excited; it's not a Russian missile, but it's still red. Apologies if I was misunderstood.

 

IRL I think the "assessment" I've seen is that the SD10 is somewhere between the 120B and 120C in terms of range capability (70km ish max). So at any rate it should be "in the ballpark", and then its down to the fact very few people IMO are getting off those "perfect" shots to take advantage of the slightly shorter or longer range of each missile.

 

At the end of the day the SD10 is somewhat larger (diam), longer and heavier (180kg) than the AAMRAM with a different wing/fin design, and with variable thrust motor that has a boost phase, and sustainer/second motor as well. So its not an easy comparison to make.

 

Then you get to stuff like seeker performance Likely an AGAT's 9B-1348, ECCM, etc which is likely all mostly in the classified or not public domain anyway, so the missiles in DCS basically work the same way.

[Terrorban]

Perhaps I shouldn't have said the JF-17 is so incredibly good, but rather that the SD-10 can outperform the AIM-120C (from what I've seen, anyways), and this has gotten me rather excited; it's not a Russian missile, but it's still red. Apologies if I was misunderstood.

 

Did you try the SD-10 missile yourself yet? In actual DCS combat scenario the AIM-120C and this missile are barely any different.

 

The fact is that ED quickly "Improved" their AIM-120C in just around 2 weeks after SD-10 was introduced. Between that time they said that it is a very long process to do another full research and they will not touch it before the new API is out.

 

One missile is properly researched and developed and other is a quick patch job. We need to wait for the new missile API first and then we can have these types of talks.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Terrorban

[AeriaGloria]

Harli while I was initially on the side of thinking the seeker is an Agat 9B-1348, the AMR-1 might actually have its roots in the Aspide(like the missile body itself) which was license produced in China as PL-11 in the late 80s until 1991. There was a shelved active radar Aspide Mk.2 that the idea probably came from. While I am sure R-77 still plays a role in this, please take a look at the one picture of the AMR-1 seeker we have. It is hard to find a picture of R-77 seeker that is the original model and be sure of it. I found two pictures I think are R-77 seeker, but TBH finding pictures or reliably documented pictures of Russian seeker systems is very hard and there are differences in these two pictures so they can’t be the same. I have enclosed two pictures of Agats after the AMR-1, please let me know if they are the right models.

 

If we find something we sure is 9B-1348 maybe we can compare the photos with AMR-1 and put this theory to rest

[Harlikwin]

Harli while I was initially on the side of thinking the seeker is an Agat 9B-1348, the AMR-1 might actually have its roots in the Aspide(like the missile body itself) which was license produced in China as PL-11 in the late 80s until 1991. There was a shelved active radar Aspide Mk.2 that the idea probably came from. While I am sure R-77 still plays a role in this, please take a look at the one picture of the AMR-1 seeker we have. It is hard to find a picture of R-77 seeker that is the original model and be sure of it. I found two pictures I think are R-77 seeker, but TBH finding pictures or reliably documented pictures of Russian seeker systems is very hard and there are differences in these two pictures so they can’t be the same. I have enclosed two pictures of Agats after the AMR-1, please let me know if they are the right models.

 

If we find something we sure is 9B-1348 maybe we can compare the photos with AMR-1 and put this theory to rest

 

Its an interesting theory, the dimensions 3.72m/.23m for the aspide vs 3.51 and .21 meter (ish) for the SD10. So maaybe for the body?

 

No clue on the actual seeker types, I did read that the Agat seeker was provided to china, whom presumably reverse engineered it. And that the Agat seeker was also offered to pakistan. As you say the Chinese did have access to the original monopulse aspide seekers, and possibly the active versions. The downstream question is that obviously the SD10 is an export version of the PL12, so it may be less capable seekerwise or in other ways as well. But the real question is in what ways? My guess is probably software stuff for ECM/ECCM rejection, maybe datalink capabilities etc.

[AeriaGloria]

Just looked a few places and saw lengths for SD-10/PL-12 ranging from 3.5m-3..9m. Gonna check what the game encyclopedia says..

[FlankerMan]

I haven't tried the SD-10, I don't have the JF-17; I haven't even gone against it yet. I'm just reporting what I've seen from AI vs AI, and it seems to me from many occasions that the SD-10 and AIM-120C are very close, but the SD-10 has a slight advantage in speed, and the AI seems to have a slightly harder time avoiding it.

[Tiger-II]

From our experiences so far, it appears to be a decent but not great platform, with good missiles.

Just doesn’t have the grunt of the F18, F14 or Mirage.

The F16 should probably not be judged as yet as it’s still very early in access and I’m guessing that it’s down on power when compared to where it should be.

 

IMHO you're either biased against it, not flying it correctly, or both.

 

I flew the JF-17 back-to-back with BMS comparing performance in various load-outs, and it is either the same or better than the F-16 in just about every configuration.

 

Thus, getting the most out of it will come down to pilot skill and familiarity.

 

Jeff is very capable and deadly in the right hands.

[sylkhan]

^^THIS

[shaHeen-1]

I only have one right hand unfortunately :[