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Would you pay for a monthly DCS subscription?


GunSlingerAUS

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Would you pay US$X a month to subscribe to DCS as a live service?

 

**Please give a detailed explanation behind your feedback**

 

I’m not sure if this idea has been posed before, but thought it would make for an interesting discussion given the current status of DCS. I’m not going to spend a huge amount of page space detailing my thoughts, as I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and… you get the picture. Instead I’d like this to be a discussion thread where the DCS audience all gets to list how they feel about such a proposal, and the pros and cons for moving to a subscription model.

 

Personally, given the large number of hours I play of DCS each month, I think something around the tune of US$20 would be an absolute bargain compared to every other form of entertainment I currently use. So hell yes, I’d sign up, and probably chuck them a year's subscription if it offered a discount for buying months in bulk.

 

I’d also continue to buy modules for the same price they sell for today, as I think the massive amount of work that goes into each one is deserving of a one-off price. The hundreds of hours I get from each module also makes it worth the buying price. I paid for both the subscription and vehicles in iRacing (the cars were cheaper, but they are much simpler, and tracks are also sold separately), the only other sim product with the high level of quality yet niche market that DCS has. So do another 50,000 to 90,000 other active iRacing subscriptions (that’s the number I could find after a brief search, would love to see more accurate numbers).

 

In my mind, here are the pros and cons of a subscription model for DCS

 

Pros:

• A constant, reliable income for ED, which will allow them to spend more time developing the core game rather than new modules. This is arguably the biggest benefit. I could spend pages talking about how this could help ED, but I think it's pretty obvious.

 

• This reliable income would allow for a true live service, with constant servers run by the company. This would not stop communities from also running their own servers – perhaps the best of these could be supported by free hosting by ED. Hell, we could even have forum software developed after 2012 ;)

 

• ED becomes more accountable to the players. With a monthly subscription model, if the game is not in a good shape, players will cancel their subscriptions.

 

• ED is less likely to go out of business if the current pay-for-module method doesn't prove to be sustainable (personally, I don't think it is)

 

• The ability to focus on new features other than modules, such as a much-improved VR experience, a new graphics engine, better AI, etc. All of those myriad tasks that we want to see completed could start getting done, but which currently come second to modules.

 

• The ability to start coming up with really outside-of-the-box ideas, such as an online dynamic campaign that can host squadrons, incorporate logistics and player hierarchies, mirroring the way Eve Online works with its corporations.

 

• Again borrowing from Eve Online, ED could host real world events each year, such as an annual DCS-con, where module makers, developers, modders, skinners and players could all get together to talk, drink and shoot each other down from the sky in a blaze of glory... sorry, I'm getting a little carried away by the possibilities that an annual subscription fee could bring.

 

 

Cons

• It costs $20 per month. Some players won’t commit to this - why should they pay for it now when it was free before? Some players simply can't afford US$20 per month.

 

• Why should players pay for new aircraft, maps, aircraft carriers, etc, when they’re already paying for a monthly subscription fee?

 

• What happens to the support of the game for people who don’t want to pay monthly? (personally, I think ED could solve this issue – finish the existing modules and base game to a level of quality that would be acceptable in other game releases. People who didn't want to subscribe could happily play all that they've paid for. All new content thereafter would become part of the DCSubscription model.

 

So, you now know how I feel about it, but I want to hear what you, the DCS community feel about it. I have no idea if players will think this is an absolutely stupid conversation to have, or whether it’s long overdue. Please, please, please keep this discussion absolutely 100% civil and polite, as I would hate to see a healthy debate get deleted due to a few idiots. And feel free to call me an idiot if you like, just please be nice about it! Have at it fellow sim-nerds!


Edited by GunSlingerAUS

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Absolutely NO.

I'm not playing it everyday, I already spent more than 300$ on it, why I should pay more and every month? No!

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https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255290 - was done at length recently.

 

Answer is still no, unless it's a service.

 

As far as accountability goes, if people have to sub to fly their already owned aircraft, ED have *zero* pressure to release anything new.

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Absolutely NO.

I'm not playing it everyday, I already spent more than 300$ on it, why I should pay more and every month? No!

 

Goddamit, I knew I'd get beaten to the punch! Oh well, the community has voiced its opinion, so please ignore me now :cry:

 

Actually, after reading the first couple of pages, that thread wasn't so much a healthy discussion as a suggestion lacking in detail, which was then pounced on with very little explanation. I still think there's room for a deeper, more intellectual debate about this. It's not like this is a radical suggestion - there's a reason I love my Netflix's and Spotify's, and so do the majority of consumers. It'd be interesting to hear how many of the people who said no in that thread use digital content subscription services?


Edited by GunSlingerAUS

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I’m not sure if this idea has been posed before ...

 

Yes, it has: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255290

 

A big hurdle for this type of proposal would be: what to do with the people that has already spent hundreds on purchasing DCS Modules?

 

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Yes, it has: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255290

 

A big hurdle for this type of proposal would be: what to do with the people that has already spent hundreds on purchasing DCS Modules?

 

 

Return all money back :lol::)

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As far as accountability goes, if people have to sub to fly their already owned aircraft, ED have *zero* pressure to release anything new.

 

That's not what was suggested - those players who didn't want to subscribe would have full access to their existing content, and any modules purchase before the subscription would be finished to an acceptable level.

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Yes, it has: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255290

 

A big hurdle for this type of proposal would be: what to do with the people that has already spent hundreds on purchasing DCS Modules?

 

I've made my suggestion for a solution to this issue a little clearer in my original post. I don't think that it's much of a hurdle at all. And what happens if ED goes out of business because the ongoing method of revenue via modules proves impossible to maintain, which I personally fear could be a real possibility?


Edited by GunSlingerAUS

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And what happens if ED goes out of business because the ongoing method of revenue via modules proves impossible to maintain, and ED goes out of business?

 

Is there any proof of a lack of revenue *at all*? people seem to think that slow progress means lack of income; I suspect slow progress is more to do with people not having enough hours in the day, but there is a certain ceiling to team size before it actually starts impeding progress It should be pointed out that there are no jets in the schedule from ED this entire year, which suggests that yes, they don't need to push out loads more modules. I hope the Hind will be a major success but I get the feeling helicopters are a slight niche, and iirc the WW2 programme is almost a completely seperate thing ( it had a kickstarter, right? ). I don't see any signs of an ongoing desperate cash grab.

 

I would consider signing up for a large managed dynamic campaign, or something along those lines, because that's an ongoing service with recurring costs - but I mentioned that.

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Is there any proof of a lack of revenue *at all*? people seem to think that slow progress means lack of income; I suspect slow progress is more to do with people not having enough hours in the day, but there is a certain ceiling to team size before it actually starts impeding progress It should be pointed out that there are no jets in the schedule from ED this entire year, which suggests that yes, they don't need to push out loads more modules. I hope the Hind will be a major success but I get the feeling helicopters are a slight niche, and iirc the WW2 programme is almost a completely seperate thing ( it had a kickstarter, right? ). I don't see any signs of an ongoing desperate cash grab.

 

I would consider signing up for a large managed dynamic campaign, or something along those lines, because that's an ongoing service with recurring costs - but I mentioned that.

 

I don't necessarily think ED is going to collapse in the next month, but I do get the feeling that they are struggling a little. It's not one thing in particular, it's lots of little things. If they were, and subscription was a way to improve things, I think the community would be very receptive if ED was open and honest about it. We all know there is currently no competition to DCS, so I reckon the community would go to long lengths to save our beloved hobby.

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Would you pay US$X a month to subscribe to DCS as a live service?

 

I’m not sure if this idea has been posed before, but thought it would make for an interesting discussion given the current status of DCS. I’m not going to spend a huge amount of page space detailing my thoughts, as I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and… you get the picture. Instead I’d like this to be a discussion thread where the DCS audience all gets to list how they feel about such a proposal, and the pros and cons for moving to a subscription model.

 

Personally, given the large number of hours I play of DCS each month, I think something around the tune of US$20 would be an absolute bargain compared to every other form of entertainment I currently use. So hell yes, I’d sign up, and probably chuck them a year's subscription if it offered a discount for buying months in bulk.

 

I’d also continue to buy modules for the same price they sell for today, as I think the massive amount of work that goes into each one is deserving of a one-off price. The hundreds of hours I get from each module also makes it worth the buying price. I paid for both the subscription and vehicles in iRacing (the cars were cheaper, but they are much simpler, and tracks are also sold separately), the only other sim product with the high level of quality yet niche market that DCS has. So do another 50,000 to 90,000 other active iRacing subscriptions (that’s the number I could find after a brief search, would love to see more accurate numbers).

 

In my mind, here are the pros and cons of a subscription model for DCS

 

Pros:

• A constant, reliable income for ED, which will allow them to spend more time developing the core game rather than new modules. This is arguably the biggest benefit. I could spend pages talking about how this could help ED, but I think it's pretty obvious.

 

• This reliable income would allow for a true live service, with constant servers run by the company. This would not stop communities from also running their own servers – perhaps the best of these could be supported by free hosting by ED.

 

• ED becomes more accountable to the players. With a monthly subscription model, if the game is not in a good shape, players will cancel their subscriptions.

 

• ED is less likely to go out of business if the current pay-for-module method doesn't prove to be sustainable (personally, I don't think it is)

 

• The ability to focus on new features other than modules, such as a much-improved VR experience, a new graphics engine, better AI, etc. All of those myriad tasks that we want to see completed could start getting done, but which currently come second to modules.

 

• The ability to start coming up with really outside-of-the-box ideas, such as an online dynamic campaign that can host squadrons, incorporate logistics and player hierarchies, mirroring the way Eve Online works with its corporations.

 

• Again borrowing from Eve Online, ED could host real world events each year, such as an annual DCS-con, where module makers, developers, modders, skinners and players could all get together to talk, drink and shoot each other down from the sky in a blaze of glory... sorry, I'm getting a little carried away by the possibilities that an annual subscription fee could bring.

 

 

Cons

• It costs $20 per month. Some players won’t commit to this - why should they pay for it now when it was free before? Some players simply can't afford US$20 per month.

 

• Why should players pay for new aircraft, maps, aircraft carriers, etc, when they’re already paying for a monthly subscription fee?

 

• What happens to the support of the game for people who don’t want to pay monthly? (personally, I think ED could solve this issue – finish the existing modules and base game to a level of quality that would be acceptable in other game releases. People who didn't want to subscribe could happily play all that they've paid for. All new content thereafter would become part of the DCSubscription model.

 

So, you now know how I feel about it, but I want to hear what you, the DCS community feel about it. I have no idea if players will think this is an absolutely stupid conversation to have, or whether it’s long overdue. Please, please, please keep this discussion absolutely 100% civil and polite, as I would hate to see a healthy debate get deleted due to a few idiots. And feel free to call me an idiot if you like, just please be nice about it! Have at it fellow sim-nerds!

 

Again?

NO, I will pay a monthly subscription only for full product without missing features and with a decent level of bugs.

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If modules were complete I wouldn't be opposed. $20.00 per month is excessive and I certainly wouldn't pay that a month waiting for a module to be completed. I like the idea of the consumer having more leverage with a subscription.

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As a software developer (see my sig) I can say that from my perspective the model pay-once-get-lifetime-support-and-updates is not sustainable unless you're selling Angry Birds or something like that). It's like a pyramid scheme: if you want to have income to cover the expenses you need a constant influx of new customers. But what if your customer base is rather limited (say DCS players)?

 

Subscription model allows you to have steady income and can invest in development and you do have an incentive to support the customers AND produce new content, invest more in customer relations to kep'em happy.

 

 

I think premium subscription would work if it gives tangible benefits.

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eh… thats the red line i'm proud to have never crossed, and i never will cross it.

 

>> NO, i will never ever pay for a montly fee, be it DCS or any other game. <<

 

for many different reasons (i dont see the necessity to write the reasons here and now, but feel free to ask if you really care).

i should say i totally agree with your "pros" and "cons", i too feel the same about ED, and just a week ago i suggested to make users pay for a "update" of modules (i would pay), but a moderator closed the topic...so i suppose they dont like this kind of talkings.

seems that ED dont accept suggestions, so... as many others users and moderators suggested to me, lets just sit and wait to see what happens.

personally i like the news and video about DCS modules and features, but i would really love to hear some more info about this kind of choices ED plan to make, especially because i will not invest another € on uncertain politics.

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no not the way it is at the moment, if I have payed for the modules then I shouldn't need to pay to fly them.

I play EVE online and have done for around 10 years, but EVE is different, I payed a sub of 10 gbp a month which is fine, im playing an online game...no offline like I play DCS, and I haven't bought the modules so totally fair, but in eve I no longer pay as I can buy the monthly sub out of the money I make online, this of course wouldn't work for DCS.

im more than happy to help fund DCS, I love the game and have a lot of money tied up in it, but maybe the way to go is see if people would pay for an online aspect? I doubt it as I think most of us play offline.

maybe we could buy shares?

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Whether anyone would or not is an irrelevancy at this point; how many software licenses have been sold? How do you create value for those who have already made several purchases? How do you appeal to me, someone who almost owns everything?

 

I suspect a monthly fee and subscription would have actually improved ED's situation, but the Rubicon is miles upon miles behind us at this point.

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No! And no need to explain why! :mad:

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Heck No!

 

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NO! in current trend.

 

DCS is investment for years, not for a few months a year.

Adobe has shown that they can be making billions per year and they do not release almost any updates or new features. Completely opposite than what they promised when they adapted the subscription model by stating that their customers would receive monthly updates and new features etc in rapid succession, instead in months or years even. They still maintain the same update period as when people paid normal price for 2-3 years, but now they pay it every year for full price and they need to keep paying to use the tools.

 

YES! if in correct way so that you get all the modules that gets released in the subscription period and then all the updates to the module up to that point when you have active subscription enabled.

 

- So ONCE you cancel your subscription, no updates, no new modules... NOTHING.

- And you need to purchase a 6/9/12 month subscription instead one month or so.

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I have bought many modues but only used a few of them long enough to justify my purchase but I have seen it not as a waste but a "fee" to support ED and the developement of this platform.

 

I am pretty sure I will keep buying new modules until I have enough time and money to support this hobby even though the ones I already have provide me enough content to learn and master for years to come .

 

But I think I will still keep buying new models even though I would probably never learn them all properly exactly because of how ED have handled this product in the past. No monthly fee. Constant developement a lot of imrpvement and new modules to buy and get excited about each year/month etc.

 

Personally I am thankful to ED to creating a product like this what is rolling forward like it will never stop and like it will never become obsolete meanwhile manage to offer fresh new content to buy each year. This is exactly why I feel all my pruchase has value.

 

 

I am pretty sure I would spend less or even skip DCS if it would be a payed service unless I would be 100% dedicated to play it regulary. But even than I would not be happy with that model because that usually makes most of the developer lazy and I think that would hurt more than it would help . Not to mention I doubt it will generate more income to them exactly because I think there are a lot of DCS user like me who can't dedicate enough time to play so regulary to justify a montly subscription.

 

When I first discovered DCS at steam there have been only the A-10 and it was like DCS was only an "overpriced" single plane stand alone product with promises that they wanted to build on this platform and more would come.

 

I was very sceptical by than but it seems ED manage to keep their bussiness rolling since than and look at what we have here by now .

 

I think their effort to manage to get from there to here is a clear proof that they don't need an "unconvenient" montly subscription model to make their bussiness rolling and as a customer I am very happy about this.

 

 

edit: But on a second thought ...there is one thing. The pool of the possible future modules getting smaller and smaller eventually that can be a thing what will make things harder like choosing what to create next but I think we are not there yet . Maybe the modern aviation lovers will ran out of wishes faster and have to accept compromises by accepting less realistically simulated moduels due to classification or wait they become declassified. :D


Edited by Sharkh

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No...

 

But... I'd pay for online events with the following philosophy:

 

ED organizing online MP events consisting of initially single mission historical operations and, as these improve (on ED expertise and customer participation), go further to historical mini Campaigns and going even further to full Campaigns.

 

Examples: Operation Vengeance, Operation Tidal Wave, Operation Chastise, Doolittle Raid, Pearl Harbour, Operation Bodenplatte, Operation Bolo, Midway, Six-Day War, Falklands, Battle of Britain, Operation Rolling Thunder and so on.

 

Of course, the more modules, maps, AI assets the more possibilities for historical accurate and immersive events exist. The scenario would have to be well implemented (historical skins, SQNs, Callsigns, Order of Battle, dates, assets numbers and logistics, voice-overs, kneeboards, weather, etc).

 

It’s like DLC SP Campaigns but in online MP environment with proper implementation. Human Admins would manage the online events in real time. Players would apply for slots in the missions and, based on their performance, would earn status that would get them higher rank to lead roles on future missions. Missions may be either PvE only or PvP.

 

The player would pay for participation and, depending on customer adhesion, further events would be organized and a good stream of revenue would flow. As DCS evolves these events will require ED less and less resources (I suppose), these being historical research, ME, server allocation and human event management.

 

For this I would pay for Korean War Assets Pack, Vietman War Assets Pack, Cold War Assets Pack and the many historical Maps and Modules that will come for sure covering military aviation history.

 

This is my view on payed “subscription”.

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Would you pay US$X a month to subscribe to DCS as a live service?

 

 

Why? It's already a "live service" for which we do not need to pay. Why would we do that?

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