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F4 PHANTOM


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3 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

 

on the interview, the question crearly say "Phantom" no "corsair".

nterviewer: Фантом... / Phantom...

Kate Perederko: Да? / Yes?

I: Перспективы? / Perspectives?

K: Он будет точно в DCS / It will definitely be in DCS.

I: Замечательно! / Wonderful!

K: Достаточно скоро / Soon enough.

I: Волшебно / Fabulous.

 

About Reddit... has been "Copy / Paste" the Minsky post, and now, has change them "facepalm".

Second edit by Minsky.... 

 

 

I didn't watch the interview but there is no doubt she is talking about a McDonnel air plane. I was thinking the mistake may have been a question saying F4U and someone missing the u.

It's clearly Phantom so that means  It is either the FH Phantom 

McDonnell_FH-1_Phantom_of_VF-17A_on_USS_

or the F-4 Phantom II

QF-4_Holloman_AFB.jpg

The worst trick they could pull on us is the FH granted a new Korean war plane would be nice but it ain't the right Phantom. Granted my solution would be to have both.  Though I think the f2H Banshee would be better than the FH.

 

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18 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I didn't watch the interview but there is no doubt she is talking about a McDonnel air plane. I was thinking the mistake may have been a question saying F4U and someone missing the u.

It's clearly Phantom so that means  It is either the FH Phantom 

McDonnell_FH-1_Phantom_of_VF-17A_on_USS_

or the F-4 Phantom II

QF-4_Holloman_AFB.jpg

The worst trick they could pull on us is the FH granted a new Korean war plane would be nice but it ain't the right Phantom. Granted my solution would be to have both.  Though I think the f2H Banshee would be better than the FH.

 

 

Check the video comentaries, Gena Pilot has continue talking about a F-4 Phantom to the russian comunity, no over a FH Phantom without relevance on any war, retired from service previously to Korean war.

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8 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

 

Check the video comentaries, Gena Pilot has continue talking about a F-4 Phantom to the russian comunity, no over a FH Phantom without relevance on any war, retired from service previously to Korean war.

I'm just being a goof. Seriously except the F-101 I don't want to see any McDonnel plane with an odd number. Though I am serious about the F2H- at least an AI version.  Obviously I'm excited about the F-4 Phantom II. My profile pic is Spook for crying out loud. 


Edited by upyr1
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4 minutes ago, Kazansky222 said:

I really hope they do an early version of the F-4 and then a later variant afterwards.

 

Yeah we need B/C

 

Then E and J/S

 

So only like 5 modules 😛

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2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I didn't watch the interview but there is no doubt she is talking about a McDonnel air plane. I was thinking the mistake may have been a question saying F4U and someone missing the u.

It's clearly Phantom so that means  It is either the FH Phantom 

McDonnell_FH-1_Phantom_of_VF-17A_on_USS_

or the F-4 Phantom II

QF-4_Holloman_AFB.jpg

The worst trick they could pull on us is the FH granted a new Korean war plane would be nice but it ain't the right Phantom. Granted my solution would be to have both.  Though I think the f2H Banshee would be better than the FH.

 

 

 

F-4E Phantom was already in development via the BelSimTek Office, 

Projects got re-arranged when BST Merged/absorbed back into Eagle Dynamics Office.

But no project is going to be started and then just deleted. So it's just a matter of time, and getting all these In Development Modules completed and out of the way for new projects (or old) to resurface


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How many DCS modules are there, for multiple variants of the same airframe?  I'm not talking say the Gazelle between ATGM vs cannon/rockets, but an actual different variant of the aircraft?

 

 

 

Fw190 A-8 and Fw 190 D-9 Dora

 

F-14B and... A (is it out yet?)

 

A-10A and A-10C... one is full fidellity... but the other is FC "simpler". 

 

Su-27 and Su-33... but both are FC "low fidellity". Nothing wrong with that, but IMO it's not the same thing as expecting multiple variants in full fidellity. 

 

That's... not a long list. Three of them are low fidellity. Five are full fidellity. 

 

 

 


Edited by Rick50
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27 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

 

How many DCS modules are there, for multiple variants of the same airframe?  I'm not talking say the Gazelle between ATGM vs cannon/rockets, but an actual different variant of the aircraft?

 

 

 

Fw190 A-8 and Fw 190 D-9 Dora

 

F-14B and... A (is it out yet?)

 

A-10A and A-10C... one is full fidellity... but the other is FC "simpler". 

 

Su-27 and Su-33... but both are FC "low fidellity". Nothing wrong with that, but IMO it's not the same thing as expecting multiple variants in full fidellity. 

 

That's... not a long list. Three of them are low fidellity. Five are full fidellity. 

 

 

 

 

 

So the actual longer list is: (and I'm prolly missing stuff, esp ww2)

 

Fw190 A-8 and Fw 190 D-9 Dora

 

P51-25, P51-35

 

F14B-135, F14A-135, F14A-95 (Coming soon tm), F14A-95 IRAF (Coming soon tm)

 

A10A, A10C, A10C2

 

Su27, J11, Su-33

 

Mig29A, Mig29G, Mig29S

 

Su25A, Su25T

 

L39C, L39ZA

 

Gazelle-M, L, Mistral, miniguin

 

Now I will 100% agree that FF modules and variants are generally way more work, The F14 is kinda the exception to the rule since the -135's are the same other than engines, and the -95s differ only slightly from the -135s and its mainly deleted systems. And would really be so for the F4's. I mean as I understand it you have 2 basic lineages, the AF and Navy jets. So like a F4B, F4J, F4S would be similar (especially the 4J and S), and maybe even the Brit CV one (F4M?) one to that. While you got the F4C, F4E for the AF. Never mind the other foreign versions. Of that pile of planes the F4E would probably be the most popular/common variant for the AF versions. And I'm not sure how much upgraded the F4S was from the J but maybe that could be a 2 fer.

More realistically its down to what people want. The F4E was a bomb truck for most of its life with a tier2 A/A capability from the 70's onward, but it was upgraded to use PGM's. The Navy jets were far more capable in A/A due to better radar/systems, but not as good as the later F4E's for PGM's.

 

And I'm happy to defer to our Phans as I'm sure they know more than me.

 

 

 

 

 


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Also the C-101EB and CC. If we extend that to WIP stuff, then you have the Mirage F1CE/EE/BE/M, and the G-91R1B/PAN/R3 too. I'm not sure whether the MB-339 will have only the A version or the PAN as well (although admittedly, the PAN versions are pretty similar to the R1B/A).

 

Honestly, despite all the fanboying over specific variants, I don't think you get much return on investment beyond doing an E bomb truck and a J or S fleet defender. Those cover a wide enough range of periods and capabilities that they can stand in decently for other parts of the Phantom's career, kind of like the Mig-21bis does right now. In general I think the Phantom could be a good testbed to have a DLC-type system where you get discounts if you already have variants of a similar aircraft though - say, paying 60/70 dollars for your first full fidelity Phantom, and getting 50% off the second one if you so choose.

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3 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

Also the C-101EB and CC. If we extend that to WIP stuff, then you have the Mirage F1CE/EE/BE/M, and the G-91R1B/PAN/R3 too. I'm not sure whether the MB-339 will have only the A version or the PAN as well (although admittedly, the PAN versions are pretty similar to the R1B/A).

 

Honestly, despite all the fanboying over specific variants, I don't think you get much return on investment beyond doing an E bomb truck and a J or S fleet defender. Those cover a wide enough range of periods and capabilities that they can stand in decently for other parts of the Phantom's career, kind of like the Mig-21bis does right now. In general I think the Phantom could be a good testbed to have a DLC-type system where you get discounts if you already have variants of a similar aircraft though - say, paying 60/70 dollars for your first full fidelity Phantom, and getting 50% off the second one if you so choose.

 

Ah yeah forgot the 101...

 

And yeah I Agree, 1 naval phantom and the F4E is likely as good as its gonna get, you can kinda "role-play" Vietnam with those. but really the 70's and 80's had plenty of conflicts for those. We "might" get different variants of the F8 as well IIRC. 

 

Iran F4E, Israel F4E, lord knows who else.

 

Naval phantoms saw less action outside of VN. But certainly for anything hypothetical in 70's they would have.

 

 

Frankly I think variants will eventually become a "thing" once you run out of "unique" planes to do. Which is fine I guess. 

 


Edited by Harlikwin
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For a carrier variant, would it make more sense to choose the B ? I mean, because it was introduced earlier in the war, say compared to the J ? I think someone made that point already...

 

Also, 649 built...


Edited by Rick50
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41 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

 

For a carrier variant, would it make more sense to choose the B ? I mean, because it was introduced earlier in the war, say compared to the J ? I think someone made that point already...

 

Also, 649 built...

 

Arguing what makes the most "sense" could go on forever. DCS Vietnam isn't a thing and won't be with just the F-4, so an earlier variant isn't necessarily best. The closest things to rivaling the F-4 would be the MiG-21/23 both of which are late/post Vietnam in DCS.

 

Multiple variants would not be a bad thing, and perhaps the Phantom is a good opportunity to work out a way of streamlining multiple variations of a module. If that's not possible, I'm fine with just letting the devs decide on a version.

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just wondering. Is the navy phantom with its draggy Gunpods still a better dogfighter compare to the E because of the CG placement? I assume because of the gun is place at the nose would make it less maneuverable ?


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40 minutes ago, ustio said:

just wondering. Is the navy phantom with its draggy Gunpods still a better dogfighter compare to the E because of the CG placement? I assume because of the gun is place at the nose would make it less maneuverable ?

 

Neither are good dogfighters lol

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4 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

P51-25, P51-35

 

F14B-135, F14A-135, F14A-95 (Coming soon tm), F14A-95 IRAF (Coming soon tm)

More to add... 🙂

TF-51D as a version of P-51D

P-47D-30 and -40

F-14A-135-GR - early version, with ALR-45 and ECM on HSD, about to come later

 

So if you think about it most modules already come with multiple versions. It won't go easy with the Phantom though as there are large in depth changes both external and internal between the versions like avionics, radars, gear, wings structure and config...

 

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Counting the multiple variant DCS aircraft is fun and all. But we must admit the level of differences between a Navy and Air Force F-4 go well beyond them, perhaps upcoming Mirage F1 versions will be somewhat closer, but even those probably won't be as fundamentally different.

 

I'd love if we could get at least 5 F-4 variants across services and time periods, but practically I really don't expect it to happen. Yet... I think getting at least 2 of them is pretty much necessary: a post Vietnam F-4E, preferrably later parts of 70s or maybe 80s, and a naval F-4J or S, either somewhat earlier, or also of the same vintage.

 

Personally, F-4 without said E model doesn't mean anything for me, and I'm sure the opposite is true for many others. Even if they are two separate full price modules, or 2in1 deal, or separate modules but with heavy discount on the other for the owner of either one, these two types are the bare minimum. I don't know if we'll even get that to be honest though... I'm afraid they'll pick one and stick with it much to the chagrin of those that want the other.

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9 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Ah yeah forgot the 101...

 

And yeah I Agree, 1 naval phantom and the F4E is likely as good as its gonna get, you can kinda "role-play" Vietnam with those. but really the 70's and 80's had plenty of conflicts for those. We "might" get different variants of the F8 as well IIRC. 

 

Iran F4E, Israel F4E, lord knows who else.

 

Naval phantoms saw less action outside of VN. But certainly for anything hypothetical in 70's they would have.

 

 

Frankly I think variants will eventually become a "thing" once you run out of "unique" planes to do. Which is fine I guess. 

 

 

I would have no objections if Eagle released different variants of the F-4.  I know Nick said something about "F-4 everything"  The unrealistic dream that statement means 

B, C, D, E, J, N, S , M, K G and F.  In terms of flight models The B,C,D, J, M and K I believe would be the closest to each other there is a slight difference in weight and the M and K have different engines.  Then E,F and G would basically be the same. The N and S would be a hybrid of the two since they have a round nose and I believe they both have maneuvering slats like the E. 

The B and C are the closest in terms of Avionics.

The D is basically an upgraded C with the IRST removed and the ability to drop smart bombs added.

The E and F are the most varied. The original F was an E without BVR and the late models of the two use avionics from the F-16 and 18.  In my view with the E and F if we are only to have one of them it needs to be a version used in the Linebacker operations with a long life span after that. If we are to get two, then the second version should be the Ice, Terminator or some other Phantom 2K type upgrade- I don't care which though it would be what ever is the closest to the F-teens we have.  Though if we get 3 then obviously the third version would need to be some post Vietnam variant that fits between the Linebacker and 2k type version.

G- I don't expect to see a flyable G. 

The J, N, S M and K I am thinking these would be the close in avionics and the biggest difference would be the engines I'd like someone to correct me if I am wrong.

 

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I think with all the naval assets in the game being added to the game it makes most sense for a J model. That would nearly fill out the roster for late 70s carrier air wing, and have good synergy.

 

F-4E Is kinda limiting since we don't have any century series assets for it too work with yet.

 

 

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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On 1/20/2020 at 6:05 PM, thaihorse said:

Hi. Don't exactly where to post this but the reason Im posting is just to make a suggestion. I would like to see a simulation for the F4 phantom some day. Your list of planes wouldn't be complete without this beloved and classic design. And while youre at it I would also like to see a complete model of the AH64 Apache helicopter. It would be great to see these soon. Thanks.

Phantom coming.

I wonder if it is by a new 3rd party or the one of existing ones?

I guess the unknown 3rd party that will make a big entry with F-4J. 🙂

 

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5 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

I think with all the naval assets in the game being added to the game it makes most sense for a J model. That would nearly fill out the roster for late 70s carrier air wing, and have good synergy.

 

F-4E Is kinda limiting since we don't have any century series assets for it too work with yet.

 

 

I agree about the “J”, it goes well with the coming F-8 and A-6.

 

However, we must have an “E” - easily the most produced model, served in many air forces and conflicts around the world and had the largest number of aerial victories.

 

I would love to have both, even if that means 2 modules.

 

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

The D is basically an upgraded C with the IRST removed and the ability to drop smart bombs added.

The D also had different avionics. It could fire the AIM-4D (which the -C could not), much to Robin Olds' displeasure, and it had a bombing computer with a rudimentary form of CCRP (like the Skyhawk mod essentially).

 

2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

the M and K have different engines. 

The Spey engines also required the fuselage to be re-shaped, which broke the area ruling slightly compared to the J79 jets. That limited the top speed at altitude, but it made the aircraft perform a bit better at low altitude (hence the British Phantoms being nicknamed the most expensive, slowest Phantoms ever built). Between that and the different performance of the new engines, you're looking at pretty large differences in the FM - larger than the A and B model Tomcat for example.

 

2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

In my view with the E and F if we are only to have one of them it needs to be a version used in the Linebacker operations with a long life span after that. If we are to get two, then the second version should be the Ice, Terminator or some other Phantom 2K type upgrade

Yeah I don't really see the need to have an -F in game. You can easily just take an -E, keep it from loading Sparrows in the Mission Editor, and be close enough. Personally I'd hate to have one of these modernized Phantoms though, if I want an AMRAAM truck I'll just fly something else instead...although I'm sure the airquake muh capabilities crowd will be horrified.

 

47 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

F-4E Is kinda limiting since we don't have any century series assets for it too work with yet.

The F-4E replaced the Century Series, it doesn't really need to operate together with them. Between the Mirage F1, F-5E, Mig-21 and -23 we will have plenty of aircraft that were operated in the same time period tbh.

 

9 hours ago, ustio said:

just wondering. Is the navy phantom with its draggy Gunpods still a better dogfighter compare to the E because of the CG placement? I assume because of the gun is place at the nose would make it less maneuverable ?

As far as I understand, USN Phantoms didn't operate with gunpods much, especially not for air to air. They were mostly used by the USMC and USAF for a2g (and in the case of the USAF, the a2a thing was only until the -E came online). Having said that the best dogfighting Phantom is supposed to be a USN -S, but even then, I would prepare to be underwhelmed. Regardless of variants it will be a pretty tough aircraft to fly in BFM/ACM, at least if you're used to a Hornet, Viper or Tomcat, because you won't out turn (almost) anything, you will really really need to know how to use the vertical and how to unload, extend and re-engage.

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Yeah, really while I think alot of people want a VN scenario we aren't even remotely there in terms of the other assets, its a desert for actual 60's model AC specific to that conflict.

 

However we do have a bunch of 70's/80's era assets like the 21bis, and the F1 and 23 F14A-95's coming soon. 

 

Realistically, an F4E covers the USAF and a ton of export customers, and it lets ED finish out the bulk of the IRAF.

 

Once you have the early IRAF F14A, and an F4E, coupled with our bit too modern F5 you have a rough approximation of the IRAF for the 70's and beyond. We even have a map for it.

 

And once you have an IRAF, you can sort-of pretend the Iraqis did really good in the war to push it our part of the map, and then Mig21, 23, and mirage F1 are an interesting and historical counterpoint. Or you could do the Gulf states with the M2k, and pretend with a few other modules. 

 

Naval phantoms, again more capable for A/A with the J/S, and close to the british M (different engines I know).  

 

As for modernized phantoms with APG-66's or whatever, nope nope nope... 


Edited by Harlikwin
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4 hours ago, TLTeo said:
6 hours ago, upyr1 said:

The D is basically an upgraded C with the IRST removed and the ability to drop smart bombs added.

The D also had different avionics. It could fire the AIM-4D (which the -C could not), much to Robin Olds' displeasure, and it had a bombing computer with a rudimentary form of CCRP (like the Skyhawk mod essentially).

That's why I say it's an upgraded c. Externally you can't always tell them apart 

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21 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Arguing what makes the most "sense" could go on forever. DCS Vietnam isn't a thing and won't be with just the F-4, so an earlier variant isn't necessarily best. The closest things to rivaling the F-4 would be the MiG-21/23 both of which are late/post Vietnam in DCS.

 

Multiple variants would not be a bad thing, and perhaps the Phantom is a good opportunity to work out a way of streamlining multiple variations of a module. If that's not possible, I'm fine with just letting the devs decide on a version.

I wouldn't agree with your assessment.  You have the F-4, A-7, F-8, Huey, Mig-21, Mig-19, Mig-17, and potentially the AH-1 Cobra.  You also have Heatblur working on an A-6 Intruder and the Forrestal.   You have almost everything you need.  The SAMs are there for the most part.

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