AIM-7 F/M/MH Variants differences?

[BonerCat]

Basicly the title

What are the differences between the different AIM-7 variants?

To my understanding, the F is an older version of the M, with the same motor and aerodynamics, but worse seeker (is that right?)

I m especially confused about the difference between the M and the MH.

Thanks in advance

[KlarSnow]

Real World

 

F is an improved E, with a sensitive enough seeker to fully exploit the range capabilities of the radars in the F-15/14 for longer ranged shots, has some kinematic improvements as well. Essentially still an E at core though.

 

M is a essentially a completely new sparrow. M stands for Mono-pulse, as it uses a mono-pulse seeker which gives it significant seeker improvements and advantages over the E/F. Think better sensitivity and accuracy of the seeker, far better countermeasure resistance, and overall just a better seeker and guidance system.

 

MH, or H build sparrow (as you'll see it labelled some places) is a variant of the M that includes further minor seeker enhancements and adds the ability to loft, increasing its kinematic performance at range.

 

In Game

In game the primary differences are in CM rejection capability and whether or not it can loft.

CM rejection from best to worst;

Best: MH

Middle: M

Worst: F

The M/MH both seem to be able to loft off the hornet right now if you toggle that option. I cant recall if the F will or wont, I almost never fly with it.

[BonerCat]

Thanks dude!

[Bunny Clark]

It's pretty hard to find detailed information about this on the internet. From what I can tell the AIM-7M and AIM-7MH are physically identical missiles, with the H-Build using a more updated software with an emphasis on improved guidance logic.

[Krippz]

Real World

 

F is an improved E, with a sensitive enough seeker to fully exploit the range capabilities of the radars in the F-15/14 for longer ranged shots, has some kinematic improvements as well. Essentially still an E at core though.

 

M is a essentially a completely new sparrow. M stands for Mono-pulse, as it uses a mono-pulse seeker which gives it significant seeker improvements and advantages over the E/F. Think better sensitivity and accuracy of the seeker, far better countermeasure resistance, and overall just a better seeker and guidance system.

 

MH, or H build sparrow (as you'll see it labelled some places) is a variant of the M that includes further minor seeker enhancements and adds the ability to loft, increasing its kinematic performance at range.

 

In Game

In game the primary differences are in CM rejection capability and whether or not it can loft.

CM rejection from best to worst;

Best: MH

Middle: M

Worst: F

The M/MH both seem to be able to loft off the hornet right now if you toggle that option. I cant recall if the F will or wont, I almost never fly with it.

 

Thanks for the informative write-up. So while the FM improvements added to the Sparrow made a big difference; ED still has a long way to go.

[KlarSnow]

You wont find detailed information on this hardly anywhere unfortunately, and the P Sparrow is even worse. The P is essentially an iterative design of the MH, so for DCS terms better CM resistance still, but very similar if not the exact same guidance. It is really much more similar to the MH than the MH is to the M, but the M and the MH are essentially the same missile with a software change and some minor hardware changes.

 

The end result of this is that the M, MH, and P are all very very similar, and most of the stuff that changed will result as far as DCS is concerned in improved CM resistance throughout, and the lofting mechanic. Thats probly the only detail that 1)they will be able to find and 2) they will be able to model more than likely.

 

its not 100% accurate but a good way to think of the M, MH and P are like an AIM-120C5, C6,C7. They are really the same missile, just some rather minor differences usually in software, that again, in DCS terms would only result in more than likely a CM resistance change unless they do a massive overhaul of seeker stuff, but even then, the details on what is going on there that separates them is going to be virtually impossible to find so It will still probably be just slightly better countermeasure or notch resistance.

Edited January 23, 2020 by KlarSnow

[CarbonFox]

I recall the AIM-7P improvements were also focused on better performance at low altitude. What that translate to, I don't know.

[nighthawk2174]

F was the first in the new line of sparrows from the previous gen. It got the new MK56 motor which is shared by the rest of the sparrows. It got a new seeker that allowed it home in on PD waveform as well as CW. And got a slew of massive electronics upgrades. The M was next and got a new monopulse seeker and nosecone that increased its lock on ranges and effectiveness, along with giving it HOJ. Although it became incompatible with CW as a guidance method. The MH is a slightly upgraded M variant with parts from a AIM-7P. These were all electronic and improved the CCM resistance and gave the missile lofting logic.

 

 

Now in the code the F model has a really low chaff resistance (FAR lower than it should be) but is identical to the rest in every other way. The M has much better chaff resistance but is identical to the F in kinematics. The MH has the best chaff resistance and can loft, even if the loft in DCS makes the missile useless. But once fixed this will be the best sparrow variant.

[Boagord]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:34 PM, nighthawk2174 said:

 Although it became incompatible with CW as a guidance method.

 

Have you any source about it?

 

In DCS I can guide aim-7m in P-STT lock, so I assume it is a CW guidance.
 

And I found this :
https://books.google.fr/books?id=o3PTEuaoSosC&pg=PA1409&dq=aim-7m+cw+or+pulse&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPyNC4t7_xAhXQ3YUKHf5eAQoQ6AEwAnoECAkQAg

Edited June 30, 2021 by Boagord

[nighthawk2174]

9 hours ago, Boagord said:

Have you any source about it?

 

In DCS I can guide aim-7m in P-STT lock, so I assume it is a CW guidance.
 

And I found this :
https://books.google.fr/books?id=o3PTEuaoSosC&pg=PA1409&dq=aim-7m+cw+or+pulse&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPyNC4t7_xAhXQ3YUKHf5eAQoQ6AEwAnoECAkQAg

 

iirc this comes from multiple sources at this point, I don't have all of them, but I do have a F15 and F18 manuals that both state this.  From your source it is referencing the 7F which is compatible with both CW and PD signals.

[Northstar98]

On 1/23/2020 at 4:27 AM, KlarSnow said:

You wont find detailed information on this hardly anywhere unfortunately, and the P Sparrow is even worse. The P is essentially an iterative design of the MH, so for DCS terms better CM resistance still, but very similar if not the exact same guidance. It is really much more similar to the MH than the MH is to the M, but the M and the MH are essentially the same missile with a software change and some minor hardware changes.

 

The end result of this is that the M, MH, and P are all very very similar, and most of the stuff that changed will result as far as DCS is concerned in improved CM resistance throughout, and the lofting mechanic. Thats probly the only detail that 1)they will be able to find and 2) they will be able to model more than likely.

 

its not 100% accurate but a good way to think of the M, MH and P are like an AIM-120C5, C6,C7. They are really the same missile, just some rather minor differences usually in software, that again, in DCS terms would only result in more than likely a CM resistance change unless they do a massive overhaul of seeker stuff, but even then, the details on what is going on there that separates them is going to be virtually impossible to find so It will still probably be just slightly better countermeasure or notch resistance.

 

Do you know if the P has a D/L for mid-course guidance? - I swear I've seen that somewhere.

 

Kinda like the same guidance of an SM-2 (which AFAIK is D/L + INS mid-course + terminal SARH)

[KlarSnow]

The P does not have D/L midcourse guidance. It is an iterative improvement on the MH, as mentioned above all of these missiles are much more alike than they are different. There is no specific capability the P has over the M/MH, it just is "better". Really just think of the MH/P as AIM-7M2/AIM-7M3 just like AIM-120C5/AIM-120C6 are iterative improvements on the AIM-120C. Same missile, just better in terms of seeker, chaff resistance/guidance logic, etc... For DCS purposes this works out to better at resisting chaff, and maybe better at HOJ/anti-ECM stuff (pending overhauling those systems).

[Tomcatter87]

Does anyone know in which year the MH sparrow was introduced? The M model came in 1982, but the MH?

[Tholozor]

8 minutes ago, Tomcatter87 said:

Does anyone know in which year the MH sparrow was introduced? The M model came in 1982, but the MH?

c.1987

[Hazardpro]

On 7/1/2021 at 11:15 PM, KlarSnow said:

The P does not have D/L midcourse guidance. It is an iterative improvement on the MH, as mentioned above all of these missiles are much more alike than they are different. There is no specific capability the P has over the M/MH, it just is "better". Really just think of the MH/P as AIM-7M2/AIM-7M3 just like AIM-120C5/AIM-120C6 are iterative improvements on the AIM-120C. Same missile, just better in terms of seeker, chaff resistance/guidance logic, etc... For DCS purposes this works out to better at resisting chaff, and maybe better at HOJ/anti-ECM stuff (pending overhauling those systems).

 

AIM-7P block II does incorporate a midcourse up-link upgrade to the rear receiver according to a book source I have.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Hazardpro