Revisiting the Viggen

[MBot]

After spending most of the last year intensively with the fantastic Tomcat, I went back to revisiting the Viggen again for the last week.

 

The Viggen has always been one of my favorite aircraft in DCS. I think it is a very interesting design from my favorite period (70-80s Cold War), combining Apollo-era avionics with an exciting high-performance airframe against an overwhelming enemy in a high threat environment. I especially like the Swedish low-level attack doctrine that the Viggen is so closely built around. Heatblur’s module is also very well made that is, for the most part, complete and working.

 

Unfortunately, I feel that even 3 years after the initial release of the module, DCS does not offer an environment that does justice to the Viggen, especially in the context of its operational doctrine. Sure, you can make it work somehow with what we have available and the aircraft is certainly usable as a regular strike aircraft. But all my efforts to put the Viggen in its historic operational context, as a player and mission/campaign creator, have ultimately failed due to a lack of support of the DCS environment. This is not Heatblur’s fault, but it is still very unsatisfactory.

 

I have been mentioning my critique of DCS in regards to the Viggen before at various places, but let me list them here again:

 

• Theater: For me, historical accuracy and/or authenticity is very important and the Viggen just feels completely out of place in any of DCS’ theaters. Some aircraft are very operationally flexible and work well with various theaters (for example the Tomcat and the Persian Gulf map), others can be reasonably explained to show up at places they never did. The Viggen though is so tightly tied to a specific scenario that I can’t accept it anywhere else. Every time I fly the Viggen, I have the feeling that it doesn’t belong here. Nothing less than a Baltic theater will work for me.
   
   
  
• Ship classes: For an aircraft with such emphasis on the anti-ship mission profile, there is a serious lack of appropriate target ships. This is especially true considering that the Viggen offered only a second-class anti-ship capability even during its prime (compared to contemporary US and Soviet capabilities) that in turn was intended to be used against the mostly second-rate ships found in the Soviet Baltic Fleet. We therefore need such second-rate ships.
   
  Now I understand that it is not possible to model the vast number of different ships that the Viggen was expected to encounter in the Baltic. However, I think at least 3 key classes would be important for an at least basic portrayal of a Soviet invasion fleet, which was the historic signature target of the Viggen:
   
  1. Ropucha LST. These formed, among other classes, the core of the amphibious shipping that would cross the Baltic and land Soviet forces in Sweden. It seems that a very high detail 3d model of the Ropucha is already deep within DCS for a while, but for some reason this has never been activated as a usable unit.
  2. Kashin DDG. Even though these were already considered second-rate ships by the 1980s, a few of these guided-missile destroyers were the best units permanently assigned to the Baltic Fleet and would have formed the “High” in the High-Low mix of escorts. Armed with SA-N-1 SAM.
  3. Mirka FF. These light frigates were among the most numerous warships in the Baltic Fleet and would probably have made up the bulk of escorts. “Low” in the High-Low mix. Not armed with any radar guided SAMs but featuring two twin-76 mm AA guns.
   
  Now there would be more ships that would be very interesting targets for the Viggen, but with the three above (and the Krivak and Grisha classes that are already in game), a reasonable representation of the invasion fleet with its escorts could be made.
   
   
  
• Naval AAA: No ship in DCS has working AA-guns bigger than 30 mm (ignoring the WWII assets pack), even though all modern naval guns are dual purpose (anti-surface and anti-air). This is especially important for the second-rate ships found in the Baltic where 76 mm, 100 mm and 130 mm AAA would still have formed a significant part the air defense of Soviet naval forces. The Viggen with its short-ranged RB-04E would have had to face some of it.
   
   
  
• Naval EWR: No ship in DCS has working Early Warning Radar. It is my understanding that the most dangerous threat to the Viggen was considered to be enemy fighters and the main tactic to counter them was to fly at low level to avoid detection. This tactic of low level detection avoidance becomes mostly pointless though if the EWR that should guide the enemy fighters to an interception doesn’t even exist.
   
   
  
• Look-down AI: Even if above naval EWR would exist, flying at low level in DCS is still pointless because AI is capable of look-down detection over vast distances, sometimes over hundreds of km. This is true even for primitive fighters such as MiG-19 and MiG-21. As such this invalidates the Viggen’s primary attack tactic of avoiding detection by low level flight.
   
   
  
• No NOE AI: Even if above erroneous AI look-down detection capability would not exist, AI flight leaders are still not be able to fly lower than 100 m above the water and player AI wingmen are even unable to fly lower than 200-300 m above the water. As such even if low level flight was a valid tactic to avoid detection by enemy fighters, friendly AI would still be unable to perform it properly.
  

Edited January 31, 2020 by MBot
Typos

[QuiGon]

You're definitely not the only one dreaming of that! I don't have words to describe how much I would love to see those features getting implemented in DCS! I too once tried to make a campaign for the Viggen and gave up on it, because DCS just doesn't provide the environment necessary for low level interdiction operations like the Viggen does. Not having things like NOE AI, no look-down AI and also IADS (which ED said they are working on) is really a game breaker for such a type of operation.

 

For the Viggen itself the the missing theater of operations (baltic map, swedish and soviet units) is an additional problem. Heatblur once planned to supply a fitting terrain to the Viggen, but those plans have unfortunately not become reality :(

[TLTeo]

Other than the theatre (which in my opinion is not the end of the world, but of course to each his own) none of that is in Heatblur's hands unfortunately.

[TOViper]

A map could be made by HB (if they had enough resources).

 

Anyway:

In fact so many promises didn't become true (or became true after months / years).

I - for myself - have decided not to buy anymore module for DCS. Too much promises and fancy videos, too less delivered.

 

For the time now I have enough of all this. This might change, but I am not expecting it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by TOViper

[Dun_Aenghus]

Would love to have a map of the three baltic nations, parts of Sweden and Finland along with St Petersburg, would make for great scenarios.

[Volator]

 

 

• Theater: For me, historical accuracy and/or authenticity is very important and the Viggen just feels completely out of place in any of DCS’ theaters. Some aircraft are very operationally flexible and work well with various theaters (for example the Tomcat and the Persian Gulf map), others can be reasonably explained to show up at places they never did. The Viggen though is so tightly tied to a specific scenario that I can’t accept it anywhere else. Every time I fly the Viggen, I have the feeling that it doesn’t belong here. Nothing less than a Baltic theater will work for me.
   
  

 

So painfully true!

 

All other points are very valid as well (though some points might be less relevant in PvP multiplayer), but the lack of a proper Sweden/Baltic Sea scenery is the main point why I have never seriously taken a closer look at the Viggen. Funny, I consider myself an avid fan of Sweden, Flygvapnet and the Viggen in particular, and the virtual DCS Viggen has been parking in my hangar from day 1, but I simply can't bear flying it over the Caucasus map. It doesn't feel and look right at all, and the two desert maps don't even need mentioning for this Swedish beauty.

[JayBird]

So painfully true!

 

All other points are very valid as well (though some points might be less relevant in PvP multiplayer), but the lack of a proper Sweden/Baltic Sea scenery is the main point why I have never seriously taken a closer look at the Viggen. Funny, I consider myself an avid fan of Sweden, Flygvapnet and the Viggen in particular, and the virtual DCS Viggen has been parking in my hangar from day 1, but I simply can't bear flying it over the Caucasus map. It doesn't feel and look right at all, and the two desert maps don't even need mentioning for this Swedish beauty.

 

Preach it brother

[QuiGon]

Regarding the Sweden/Baltic map, I will link to a previous post of mine with the Heatblur quotes about making one: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4144955[url=https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4144955&highlight=terrain#post4144955][/url]

[Neil Gardner]

Testify! Testify!

[LastRifleRound]

I have to say I've been playing the new campaign and it is excellent. I feel like I'm in a mid 90's conflict and have been avoiding sams by ensuring TOT discipline and NOE flight.

 

The add ons you suggest would be excellent, but the tools are there for you to make something great now in my opinion.

 

Flying the Viggen out of its comfort zone is realistic. When the Viggen got it's S upgrades the Soviet Union didn't exist any more. Adapting it to fly in the post cold war battle space is a valid experience to model.

[Sharkh]

I like the Viggen but I like realism so I aggree about that it feels out of place on every map . The least on caucasus but still it does not feel real.

 

Flying the Viggen is like flying a WW2 plane at anywhere else but Normandy. Its hard to feel I am in a realisic war theatre and It feels I am just cruising in peace witha historical plane.

 

It would be great if there would be a theatre to create realistic scenarios for the Viggen. If I remember correctly there had been plans about a proper theatre for the Viggen but I did not follow if there has been any progress made or not since than.

 

 

Edit: But the campaing comming with this module does a very good job at making me forget that the caucasus probalby isn't a "natural" wartheatre of the Viggen though .

Edited February 3, 2020 by Sharkh

[TLTeo]

I honestly think it depends. It's definitely unrealistic on multi-player servers (but then again, everything is unrealistic about multi-player servers), but all of the Viggen campaigns feel pretty good to me.

[BravoYankee4]

I for sure second that the Viggen deserves a Baltic sea map to be complete. That is what it is built for and everything else is more or less wrong.

 

However one not totally unrealistic scenario would be to have some of them in a United Nations operation, like the Balkan theater during early and mid 90's.

It wouldn't be the first time the Swedish air force was flying UN marked jets ground pounding troops in a foreign conflict zone...

 

I did serve as a UN soldier there, and I can promise that we wished for some Viggens in the sky, sitting in an old APC and getting fired upon by both sides in the conflict...

 

So if there would ever be a Balkans map, that would be the first thing I would do in the Mission Editor :)

A Balkans map could host a lot of historic and present aircrafts and would be great fun.

[amalahama]

It wouldn't be the first time the Swedish air force was flying UN marked jets ground pounding troops in a foreign conflict zone...

 

 

Yes it will. AFAIK Viggen or any a/c in the Swedish AF have never participated in an international coalition.

 

 

BR

[TLTeo]

Yes it will. AFAIK Viggen or any a/c in the Swedish AF have never participated in an international coalition.

 

 

BR

 

 

Both the Tunnan and Gripen have been deployed with UN forces. Swedish Armed Forces have also deployed in a bunch of other places but without the Air Force.

 

The Viggen never did deploy abroad though.

[QuiGon]

Yes it will. AFAIK Viggen or any a/c in the Swedish AF have never participated in an international coalition.

Uhm:

 

Congo Crisis: 1960s

In September 1961, in response to an appeal by the United Nations (UN) for military support, an initial force of five J 29Bs were stationed in the Republic of Congo as a contribution to a UN peacekeeping mission (ONUC) in the region, organized as the F 22 Wing of the Swedish Air Force. It was subsequently reinforced by four more J 29Bs and two S 29C photo reconnaissance Tunnans in 1962. The J 29 was the only combat aircraft at the disposal of the UN, the J 29Bs dispatched receiving the UN identifying legend upon their fuselages. Most of the missions involved attacking ground targets with internal cannons as well as unguided rockets. No aircraft were lost in action despite large amounts of ground fire. Consensus of the crews and foreign observers was that the Tunnan's capabilities were exceptional. (The Katanga secessionists used a few Fouga Magisters and other aircraft with relatively poor air combat capabilities.) The only aircraft lost was by a high-ranking officer who made a trial run and crashed during an aborted takeoff. When ONUC was terminated in 1964, some of the Swedish aircraft were destroyed at their base, since they were no longer needed at home and the cost of retrieving them was deemed excessive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Operation_in_the_Congo#Swedish_Armed_involvement

 

 

Intervention in Libya 2011:

Sweden: The Swedish Air Force committed eight JAS 39 Gripen jets for the international air campaign after being asked by NATO to take part in the operations on 28 March. Sweden also sent a Saab 340 AEW&C for airborne early warning and control and a C-130 Hercules for aerial refueling. Sweden was the only country neither a member of NATO nor the Arab League to participate in the no-fly zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

[BravoYankee4]

It wasn't that far away with Viggens, since we had the SWAFRAP AJS 37 unit standing by for international missions during a couple of years. But they were never sent anywhere before being disbanded at 2003.