Aircraft before the 1993 tech explosion for DCS

[bies]

The most interesting things to do in such simulator are flying sexy jets/ dogfighting/ flying aerodynamically challenging aircrafts/ attacking ground targets fighting with air defence/ navigation/ communication with other players/ recreating real historical air battles.

 

In 1980s techonlogy we have:

- sexy jets like F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, MiG-29, Su-27, Mirage ✔

- dogfighting ✔

- flying aerodynamically challenging aircrafts ✔

- attacking ground targets fighting air defence ✔

- communication ✔

- navigation ✔

- real historical air battles ✔

 

Post Desert Storm air warfare:

- jets like F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, MiG-29, Su-27, Mirage are still present but already outdated surpassed by Raptors, Eurofighters, Rafales etc impossible to model anyway

- no dogfighting in era of Fox3 and high off bore missiles

- only indirect carefree computer FBW handling

- no attacking ground targets fighting air defence in era of GPS guided cruise missiles fired from outside air defence

- extensively reduced need for communication due to datalinks

- no need for navigation with GPS

- no real semi symetric air battles to recreate, just fictional conflicts or bombing helpless insurgenties

 

Is what I wrote a bit biased and simplified and can you find some gap in this armor? Yes. However, does it reflect the general trend? Yes yes.

I love planes from all eras but after Desert Strom combat flying seems to become far less intresting from perspective of virtual pilot.

Edited February 6, 2020 by bies

[QuiGon]

I am looking forward to the F4 as well, but we are going to ned a step up from Jester to make it practical for single player ...

Like with the Tomcat I would only sit in the backseat, so I wouldn't mind ;)

[QuiGon]

I couldn’t agree more with the OP. Plus these are aircraft that actually fought each other. Just look at how popular the Tomcat is, and it’s from this era. Also I can’t be the only one looking at that sexy AI F/A-18A, and thinking I want to fly it. To me it’s just a more interesting time. You still get some stand off PGMs, and Fox ones. But any CAS is gonna be up close and personal. And the air to air is probably gonna end in a merge. Plus MiG-23s, MiG-27s, Su-24s, Su-22s, and Mig-29As dueling with F-14Bs, F/A-18As, A-7Es, F-4Es, F-15As or early Cs, A-10As, and a proper F-16A just gives me goosebumps. Throw in a Fulda Gap, and Kuwait/ Southern Iraq map, and it would be legendary. But as I recently said in this forum, alas it’s not to be.

Most of what this is already post Cold War or at least end of Cold War. In regards to Cold War I'm thinking more of F-104, F-4, Vietnam and yeah, the Fulda Gap!

[JIVE74]

In total agreement with all of the above. "DCS Vietnam 1968" is what I'm holding out for (even in EA)

 

 

Less tech = Greater Challenge = More fun

[SmirkingGerbil]

Was playing on Steam before I joined these forums, so my "join date" was mid 2012 - I remember when all we had was the KA-50 or the A-10C.

 

 

I think some folks just depend too much on the advanced stand-off weps and targeting systems. I do use them in the A-10C, but she can be hella fun with a load of Hi Drag MK82's and good coordinates and Waypoints that you code into the CDU before take off . . . or just a good JTAC.

 

However, my next most eagerly awaited module? The P-47 which I have been waiting on for what now? 5 years? Started with the Kickstarter project.

 

So in effect, I am digging the vibe of the OP. I sure do like those "high tech" features on the A-10, but some of my most satisfying missions in the A-10 were taking advantage of intel, navigation, spotting by myself or other assets, and dumb bombs. Which is why I am looking forward to the P-47 in a CAS role.

[rrohde]

I am on the other side of the spectrum.

 

I'd much preferred it if ED would create modules of planes that are currently (or still) in service - so that ED could also benefit from military/government contracts to create desktop simulators for official use. We - the player base - would then in turn receive the "de-classified" module for peanuts (as we usually do).

 

ED have proven themselves with full fidelity modules of modern aircraft ( F-16, F/A-18 ), and I would love to see this trend continue where possible.

 

So for me personally, I love WWII warbirds, and then there's a large gap of disinterest, until we hit the 1980/1990 and beyond in military aviation.

 

(mind you, though - I would still buy every module of any era just to support ED and their 3rd-party developers, but I would hardly ever use them myself)

[Richard Dastardly]

I'd much preferred it if ED would create modules of planes that are currently (or still) in service - so that ED could also benefit from military/government contracts to create desktop simulators for official use. We - the player base - would then in turn receive the "de-classified" module for peanuts (as we usually do).

 

ED have proven themselves with full fidelity modules of modern aircraft ( F-16, F/A-18 ), and I would love to see this trend continue where possible.

 

So for me personally, I love WWII warbirds, and then there's a large gap of disinterest, until we hit the 1980/1990 and beyond in military aviation.

 

So you actively want to buy modules for a study sim that you *know* are incorrect? what makes you think anything about a new aircraft would be declassified anyway?

 

And yeah, old does not mean easy - old just means more involving, imo. Standoff weapons & absurdly sophisticated air defence systems keep you very remote from the task, which might be great if your life is on the line ( I sure as hell would prefer shooting from my side of the border ) but in a game, not the same visceral thrill as dodging AAA at 100ft on a cold-war era run in. We don't have the thrill of flying the aircraft, we have to get it from somewhere.

 

LGBs and targetting pods are pretty old, certainly way before 1993 - but the old pods were shockingly bad compared to current ones.

[FlankerKiller]

Most of what this is already post Cold War or at least end of Cold War. In regards to Cold War I'm thinking more of F-104, F-4, Vietnam and yeah, the Fulda Gap!

Umm, Cold War ended in 1990, so all of that is decidedly Cold War. I will admit the early and middle Cold War has a massive appeal. Korea, Vietnam, and the proxy wars would all be great. And that’s exactly the awesome thing about the Cold War. Depending of time frame early, mid, or late, you could be chasing each other around with guns, or fighting with Fox3s, AIM-154, Fox-1s. It’s all there, and plenty of land and sea action as well. And being able to see that progression would be awesome. They could fleece us for years with new modules, and maps.

[ngreenaway]

Yeah rare but, let's face it, as long as DCS is concerned, all that matters is "was it a thing, or was it not?"

 

Perhaps, but somehow I don't see heatblur allowing us to load up HAWK missiles onto our tomcats ever

 

We're even less likely to get Patriot missiles strapped to our f-15s

 

And yes, one of those was a thing. The other had quite a budget. Plenty of renderings, but I haven't seen any actual photos

Edited February 6, 2020 by ngreenaway

[Coxy_99]

Just join cold war server or also DDCS with fox1 only.

[flanker1]

we finally need cold war era red side stuff... the disbalance is not good for dcs and the price is loosing customers

[Coxy_99]

we finally need cold war era red side stuff... the disbalance is not good for dcs and the price is loosing customers

 

Wags already stated down to 3rd parties. Then you need to ask yourself will it sell and will it help the 3rd party business, Would you buy an early SU model or an A-4 F-4........ Well you would buy the F-4 so as a business model you make what sells.

[jasonbirder]

Super Etendard - put it alongside the F8 Crusader (when it arrives) and you have an Air Wing for a Clemenceau/Foch Carrier - would go on RAZBAMs South Atlantic Map and would slot right into a Persian Gulf 1980s Campaign environment too!

 

Radar, Exocets, Carrier Ops...whats not to like!

[Jonne]

Just join cold war server or also DDCS with fox1 only.

 

Removing the AIM-120 does not make the F-16 or 18 we have in DCS a 1980's aircraft. You will still have GPS, HMS and a generally way to modern avionic suite.

[speed-of-heat]

maybe that's what we need; enforceable era mode ... we know that the aircraft we have was not tey way they were built when they came of the line but actually more what they had at the end, it would be great to say I want to fly in 1984 and have that limited to aircraft and weapons and equipment available in that time period.. I suspect that would be a big lift from a software engineering point of view, though :(

[Jonne]

Well it is still way easier changing certain avionics, than creating a whole new module. Kind of what we have with the removable RWR in the MiG-19P, or the missile warning system in the Mirage (which should not be there at all though).

 

Restricting weapons should not be that big of a task either. We can do it ourself through the ME, but that is quite a PITA, the way it currently works.

 

With the GPS, we already have one feature, which is dependent on mission date.

[bies]

IIRC Matt Wagner said it may be possible to add earlier F-16C block 30 when block 50 will be finished. Depending on particular standard it could be a cold war late 1980s jet, even a bit more maneuverable and even a bit better accelerating than block 50 due to being about 500 kg lighter and still using GE engine.

Edited February 7, 2020 by bies

[Jonne]

If that will happen, I hope it is going to be an of the shelf version. The Block 50 is not that much younger, but the DCS variant was modernized putting it way beyond the 90s.

[metzger]

+1.

 

In addition, the more modern the scenario is, the more complex is to simulate realistic battle scenarios due to the very complex modern air combat doctrines and air and ground assets participating in a modern operation, most of which we don't and probably will never have in DCS.

Right now anything different than sophisticated squadron such as 132nd, is more like having a 2005 a2a/a2g attack platform in 1950 tactical knowledge, missile defense and supportive assets.

 

One reason why modern A2G might feel boring is total lack of proper Integrated SAM system. But then if we have it, it will make a proper air operation even more complicated and difficult to simulate.

[veenee]

Unfortunately planes like Hornet sell much better than more interesting and challenging to fly airframes, so ED will keep concentrating on them, understandably.

 

It's a shame but that's life I guess.

[twistking]

Unfortunately planes like Hornet sell much better than more interesting and challenging to fly airframes, so ED will keep concentrating on them, understandably.[...]

Yes, but there will definitely be some market saturation. I think there is still some room for modern redfor, but with the F-15E completing the teen series, we will properly see less interest in modern blufor.

[Hunter Joker]

Totally agree!

[Volator]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP (except that A2G stuff was boring - putting Mk.82s on a target precisely in the F-5E can be very frustrating, yes, but "put the thing on the thing and pickle" is definitely less challenging).

 

I think the Cold War era was - in terms of combat aviation - the most fascinating era.

[WinterH]

Perhaps, but somehow I don't see heatblur allowing us to load up HAWK missiles onto our tomcats ever

 

We're even less likely to get Patriot missiles strapped to our f-15s

 

And yes, one of those was a thing. The other had quite a budget. Plenty of renderings, but I haven't seen any actual photos

 

Well, I wasn't as specific as I could be in my wording but what I meant was more along the lines of being a thing as in actually entered service with the specific version being developed for the module, or at least the capability was %100 there with no ifs or buts. So that would preclude HAWK on USN F-14B and even A :)

[Jonne]

It could not carry AMRAAMs. The Block 50 was the first to do so out of the factory.