F18 RADAR is driving me insane!!

[victorlima01]

I had no idea DCS radars could simulate so may variables from real life. Just to be clear: in DCS cross-section, aspect, altitude, terrain masking and all that jazz actually matter? I had no idea it was simulated to that extent

[Exorcet]

I had no idea DCS radars could simulate so may variables from real life. Just to be clear: in DCS cross-section, aspect, altitude, terrain masking and all that jazz actually matter? I had no idea it was simulated to that extent

Most things in DCS have a RCS. You can detect missiles in some cases, and the F-117 is stealthy and can evade fighter radar. Aspect changes detection range and what radar mode is most effective. Altitude and terrain masking matter as well.

[victorlima01]

That's pretty awesome. Thanks for clearing it up.

[blunt_waco]

[sOLVED] F18 RADAR is driving me insane!!

 

Best community ever with no exaggeration. I never posted anything here without getting an overwhelming help and support from you guys. I have never seen such community anywhere else.

 

After playing with bars, B-Sweep and distance, paying close attention to numbers on top/bottom of TDC and using the Active Pause, I finally understood how the RADAR works and I was able to find targets on RADAR :joystick:

 

I can't thank you enough guys :thumbup:

[Burger]

And thank YOU for asking the question in the first place - otherwise I wouldn't have discovered that radar simulator - like you said, "amazing" (thanks =4c=Nikola). Makes me shudder how much useful stuff must be floating around out there that we don't know about... :doh:

[GIGA_HORSE]

So I am still trying to figure hornet out. Great plane, flies great, amazing ground pounder, can carry a boatload of ammunition. Jack of all trades, however, its radar feels clunky, loses track frequently. I own JF17 as well and its radar even though it is not as powerful and doesn't see as far, but its operation is much easier, more intuitive, for starters you don't need to takes hands of throttle and stick to operate, it, adjust distance, scan width and azimuth. I mean in hornet in RWS you can't change azimuth. Is it just not modeled yet or it is like that in real life? I know you can do it in TWS, but TWS is less sensitive and thus I prefer RWS. So it just feels odd that US has built such a great and deadly fighter and gave it a radar that is so tedious to operate. I mean I can't imagine pilots during combat instead of having their eyes on the target, spend a considerable amount of time looking down, trying to find and press correct buttons on MFCD, that takes the attention away from the target and wastes precious time.

[Fri13]

Try narrowing your scan volume if you have an idea of where the target is. Keep in mind that large scan volumes might not be able to continuously track a radar contact. For example 140 degrees and 6 bars might find a target only on the 2nd bar sweep, once that sweep is done it will miss the target until it gets back to the 2nd bar again, which can take long time.

 

That is function of the memory time. The radar will sweep it program (bars * azimuth) and when done, it will update its results on radar scope. Now larger the program is, more time it takes to complete it.

 

But radar scope can be set to have memory, where found targets are kept X seconds, after the timer the target is forgotten.

 

So having a 2 second memory is bad if it takes 12 seconds to complete the whole program. You will then lose targets after 2 seconds and can't target them anymore.

Extending memory time to 2-4-8-16-32 seconds makes possible to see the targets on scope while radar search new contacts, but memory starts to trick radar as same target can appear on two bars, or it can perform turn and appear as two contacts, old echo in memory and new fresh just detected.

 

But having a long memory with fast scan rate helps visually to see the target behavior, instead just one target on screen at once.

 

Why AESA is amazing as one can keep tracking each target continually while searching new ones simultaneously.

And able to adjust beam power per target based their range and attitude makes even more possible to have low probability of detect as radar emission strength is so low.

[Raisuli]

The other issue I've found is PRF can have a huge impact. Ran into this in an A2A mission I set up; had no trouble picking up the first aircraft, but the second and third flew right by without ever registering a blip. Turned out one of the A2A modes (guns, I think) changed the PRF and I had to set it back. Things started showing up after that.

 

 

Still learning this beast myself.

[Bunny Clark]

I own JF17 as well and its radar even though it is not as powerful and doesn't see as far, but its operation is much easier, more intuitive, for starters you don't need to takes hands of throttle and stick to operate, it, adjust distance, scan width and azimuth. I mean in hornet in RWS you can't change azimuth. Is it just not modeled yet or it is like that in real life?

The Hornet radar is very much not done yet. I'd guess about half the A/A radar features are even in the game at all, and some of the ones that are there don't work properly. When it's finished the Hornet will have a very sophisticated radar that is quite intuitive to use, though it works quite differently from the F-16 or JF-17.

 

You can, technically, operate nearly every radar control without taking your hands off the throttle. Placing your TDC cursor over most of the the radar controls around the edge and pressing TDC depress will allow you to change them without hitting an OSB. In some cases it's even more convenient to work this way - placing the cursor over the elevation bars option for example will give you a list of all available options to select from, rather then stepping through them in order.

[Infiltrator]

For me the Hornet's attack radar is totally broken. It's frustrating as hell then you can't lock an enemy jet up when you have the element of surprise. For nowe I've given up with the Hornet because of the radar.

[jamesgmills]

I'm very new to flying the Hornet, so it's likely user error, but is it normal for me to lock up a target and then to continuously lose that lock? The first thing I checked was that I wasn't accidentally bumping my undesignate button or have it bound to something else inadvertently.

 

I'm glad I popped into this thread at any rate, as I'm learning a lot here that the included training missions and Chuck's guide didn't expand on. Thanks for sharing such great information.

[Harker]

For me the Hornet's attack radar is totally broken. It's frustrating as hell then you can't lock an enemy jet up when you have the element of surprise. For nowe I've given up with the Hornet because of the radar.

What do you mean you can't lock? Are you aware of the different aspects of the radar when it comes to designation and tracking and target sharing over Link 16 with MSI? Namely, how L&S designation works, the mechanics of LTWS and TWS, how to use fast acquisition or auto acquisition?

 

Link 16 and donated contacts: Not all targets you see on your radar scope are actually detected by your radar. Some contacts are detected only by you (bricks), some contacts are you+network (full HAFU symbols that can be interacted with), some are only from the network (donated HAFUs, either smaller - AWACS or only bottom part of HAFU - friendly fighters only). The latter ones cannot be locked etc, because you're not detecting them yourself.

 

L&S designation and different acquisition modes: If you are in RWS with LTWS enabled or in TWS, the Undesignate button will step through targets in order of rank and make them the L&S. Otherwise, you can manually designate any target as the L&S by hovering the TDC over them and pressing TDC Depress. That does two things: 1) displays targeting info on the Radar page and on the HUD and 2) focuses the scan volume on the target in TWS AUTO. It does not track them in STT. You can enter STT either by TDC Depress again on the L&S (not the recommended way), TDC Depress on a brick in RWS without LTWS enabled or by using fast acquisition or auto acquisition, accessible with SCS Right (if your Radar page is on the right DDI). This post explains the process: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4226840&postcount=7

[Harker]

I'm very new to flying the Hornet, so it's likely user error, but is it normal for me to lock up a target and then to continuously lose that lock? The first thing I checked was that I wasn't accidentally bumping my undesignate button or have it bound to something else inadvertently.

 

I'm glad I popped into this thread at any rate, as I'm learning a lot here that the included training missions and Chuck's guide didn't expand on. Thanks for sharing such great information.

Look at my post above, see if any of the things I mention applies to your case. You can lose the lock if you're not in STT and your radar takes too long to detect the target between sweeps, for example, especially if your timeout setting is low (accessible through the DATA sub-page of the Radar, top right number - 2,4,8,16,32).

 

Other reasons you might loosing lock even in STT is the target notching you (oversimplification: Pulse-Doppler radars have a notch filter that disregards objects flying in a ~90 degree aspect to you or flying away from you at the same speed as you, so the closure rate is almost zero) or the target jamming you.

[Raisuli]

For me the Hornet's attack radar is totally broken. It's frustrating as hell then you can't lock an enemy jet up when you have the element of surprise. For nowe I've given up with the Hornet because of the radar.

 

 

It's not terribly Quake, is it? Had to get within 40 miles to pick up a pair of Me-109K4s yesterday, but I knew where they were at 90 miles (map view). So far all of my testing says yes, it works, but you have to understand the limitations and understand a little bit about how radar works and the trade-offs associated.

 

 

 

Bugged? Maybe. The people who've flown the real thing may or many not speak up on that, but I can generally get what I need from it. Well, there was that time my wings fell off without any warning, but that might be because I was doing SEAD and had the RWR volume turned all the way down. Probably a bug, though.

[falcon_120]

For me the Hornet's attack radar is totally broken. It's frustrating as hell then you can't lock an enemy jet up when you have the element of surprise. For nowe I've given up with the Hornet because of the radar.

You dont know how to use it, sorry to be harsh. I have hundreds of our in SP and MP and thd f18 radar is a beast, never let me down.

 

Your inability to use is most probably due to a bad understanding of antena elevation management and how the radar cone works.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[Arctander]

You dont know how to use it, sorry to be harsh. I have hundreds of our in SP and MP and thd f18 radar is a beast, never let me down.

 

Your inability to use is most probably due to a bad understanding of antena elevation management and how the radar cone works.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

Please send me the super secret EEA branch you are on with Hornet ACM Radar modes that work, where range gates are respected, and a second hornet joining in a multiplayer server before you is detected without having to cycle radar modes. Also one where the radar azimuth doesn’t get locked when moving from tws to rws, and the PRF doesnnt sometimes get stuck in PDI mode when you don’t have Sparrows on board.

 

There are FAR too many bugs and issues with the Hornet radar to say ‘it’s never let you down in hundreds of hours’.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Arctander

[jamesgmills]

Look at my post above, see if any of the things I mention applies to your case. You can lose the lock if you're not in STT and your radar takes too long to detect the target between sweeps, for example, especially if your timeout setting is low (accessible through the DATA sub-page of the Radar, top right number - 2,4,8,16,32).

 

Other reasons you might loosing lock even in STT is the target notching you (oversimplification: Pulse-Doppler radars have a notch filter that disregards objects flying in a ~90 degree aspect to you or flying away from you at the same speed as you, so the closure rate is almost zero) or the target jamming you.

Thank you for being so patient and thorough in your answer. It sounds like I'm losing them due to the time between scans, which I hadn't accounted for. I can probably rule out getting notched as they were hot at the time, but could be jamming at fault as well. As sk000tch explained in the link you shared, I've fallen into the bad habit of using TDC depress over L&S, yes. I'll spend more time with the manual and running through the training missions, though I could've sworn the built-in missions were what taught me to designate that way :wallbash:

 

I'm miles away from perfect and only inching my way there, but at least I'm traveling in the right direction. Appreciate the nudge along the path!

[LeCuvier]

sorry, but what's L&S?

[Tholozor]

Lock & Steering target. The L&S target will be designated with a star on the HAFU symbol in TWS or LTWS.

[Zyll]

Why exactly is using TDC depress on an L&S target incorrect? Honest question

[Tholozor]

Probably because it's more time-consuming than using fast acquisition, and leaves room for error if you end up accidentally switching the L&S target when you intended to go STT.

[Bunny Clark]

Why exactly is using TDC depress on an L&S target incorrect? Honest question

There is more functionality that's not added yet where multiple re-presses of auto acquire will reject the currently acquired target and attempt to acquire the next highest priority target. I do not believe this function works unless the current target was acquired with auto acquire.

[fredclan]

 

gamechanger video

[falcon_120]

Please send me the super secret EEA branch you are on with Hornet ACM Radar modes that work, where range gates are respected, and a second hornet joining in a multiplayer server before you is detected without having to cycle radar modes. Also one where the radar azimuth doesn’t get locked when moving from tws to rws, and the PRF doesnnt sometimes get stuck in PDI mode when you don’t have Sparrows on board.

 

There are FAR too many bugs and issues with the Hornet radar to say ‘it’s never let you down in hundreds of hours’.

 

So let me clarify because you are bringing several issues:

 

1-BVR radar modes works like a charm for me and never let me down, i can detect everything at incredible ranges, unless the enemy is in a perfect beam, other than that is amazing, even more now with TWS capability which works even better than in the viper (less time to build tracks)

2-Close combar modes like vertical, boresignt and gun work really well... if you have visual on the bandit. It is true that sometimes to pick up far away targets specially when you dont see what you want to lock, and mess around fliying with it on. A very easy workaround is to turn them on when they are close to you and you have tally, or even better use it with the JHMCS which works great.

3-Aacq has this annoying bug of picking targets further away than the closest bandit, even so, you can avoid this a lot when you reduce your azimuth scan to 20 degress and use MIDS simbols to face only the target you want.

[Arctander]

So in fact, in hundreds of hours, the Hornet radar is unreliable in the BVR to ACM modes, and you didn’t even address the MP bugs I mentioned that ED have confirmed exist.....