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Su-27 vs AI F-15 (guns only)


Doc3908

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Hi guys,

New guy here, so please pardon me if this has been covered before. I've been trying to defeat an F-15 controlled by "excellent" AI in a guns-only fight, and I just can't pull it off. The fight always ends the same way: We chase each other around, then I'm guessing he runs out of gas and ejects and I fly home on fumes. The expert-AI flies like a UFO - unbelievable turn rate and infinite vertical. By comparison, setting the AI to "high" (one down from "excellent") makes the fight interesting, but very doable - I can get the F-15 99% of the time (see video below). Set on "high" the AI flies much more smoothly and, from my perspective, more realistically. It's still a challenging fight without feeling I'm flying against the aliens from "Independence Day".

 

Anyway, here's a video of an engagement against a F-15 with AI set to "high":

 

Doc

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The AI has some issues. The difficulty basically controls how close to the limit of the aircraft the AI will perform, but the aircraft limits are generally too high and lack risk (from stalls, departure, etc). This is why Excellent can seem a bit magical. The AI is getting an overhaul in terms of tactics and flight model, we don't know when these will arrive yet.

 

 

As for Su-27 vs F-15 one thing to note is the Su-27 has much larger fuel tanks. If you fill both planes to 100% fuel, the Flanker is at a disadvantage. The other thing is that the F-15 is generally better at high speed. If you drag the fight to low speed you might find it a little easier though I haven't flown the Flanker against the Eagle in a while.

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If you haven't yet, I recommend downloading TacView. As a few others have said, the 15C does really well at high speed. The SU-27 and SU-33 do very well in relatively slow fights. Every plane is going to have its sweet spot. 18C, 33, 27 do well in relatively low-speed fights. 15C and 16 do well at higher speeds.

 

 

I think this could be useful too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

 

Also, I think the community considers this a pretty solid reference:

Art of the Kill. Worth watching the whole thing

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Art Of The Kill:

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AI uses simplified Standard Flight Modeling and does not represent either aircraft performance nor how a human would fight. That however does not make it impossible or not fun :)

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Having default 59% fuel Su27 against an excellent AI F-15 is pretty easy, just keep your energy up and use lag pursuit to stay at his six then pull your nose on and gun him when he is high and slow.

 

You want to see how it really flies find a player who really knows how to use an F-15, it is 10 times harder a whole different World.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys,

Just a quick update: You are all absolutely correct. I used to carry two R-73s (just in case, though I never ever used them) and full load of fuel going up against the F-15. I got rid of the R-73s and set the fuel to 70%. Now flying agains the excellent AI F-15 is a MUCH easier - I can usually get the bandit in a minute or two tops. Unbelievable what a difference the added weight makes to the flight characteristics of the Su-27.

Thank you all very much for all the help and advice!!

Doc

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Hi guys,

Just a quick update: You are all absolutely correct. I used to carry two R-73s (just in case, though I never ever used them) and full load of fuel going up against the F-15. I got rid of the R-73s and set the fuel to 70%. Now flying agains the excellent AI F-15 is a MUCH easier - I can usually get the bandit in a minute or two tops. Unbelievable what a difference the added weight makes to the flight characteristics of the Su-27.

Thank you all very much for all the help and advice!!

Doc

 

I'd recommend keeping the R-73's and further reducing fuel to compensate. In terms of raw performance, in this case maximum instantaneous and sustained turn rates, the Su-27 enjoys a small advantage over the F-15C. Additionally the ability to turn off the AOA/G limiter (hold the W key, the limiter is off while the key is held down), or for the really brave flying in direct control mode (press "S", not recommended until you're *extremely* familiar with how the Flanker behaves) gives you a significant advantage in nose authority. This combined with the off-boresight capability of the R-73 and the helmet mounted sight gives you a very significant advantage in a close WVR fight.

 

The R-27R / ER are also particularly susceptible to spoofing by chaff (in-game, accurate data on real world use is nearly impossible to find) makes the R-73 even more valuable.

 

My normal weapons load for a "mission" (as opposed to a known WVR arena-type fight) is 4 x R-27ER, 2 x R-27ET and 4 x R-73. Occasionally I'll sacrifice two of the R-73s for the ECM pods, they do have their uses.

 

For a short range interception or scramble type mission 4 x R-27ER and 4 x R-73 with a significantly reduced fuel load - usually ~40% or under in this scenario.

 

You're absolutely right though that reducing all-up weight has a significant impact on how agile the Flanker can be.

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Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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