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[WIP] Radar can´t be notched


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Speculate or assume all you want about it’s capabilities, the devs will look at it when a track is uploaded. Per Foxwxl it’s suppossed to have a very good memory mode, it will absolutely not detect things that are already in the notch(try picking up helicopters), what you are seeing is it’s memory mode picking up lost locks https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=263310 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4245506#post4245506

 

As for MWS it was the rwr picking up the Phoenix in Caps test, he didn’t know how to tell the tell the difference, if t was MWS picking it up it would only say M. If he tested the A-10C MWS like the viewer suggested he would probably find it’s MWS functions exactly the same, and that it is a limitation of DCS in how MWS are treated, not Chinese propaganda. Oh And you can’t blame the RWR on overpowered Chinese propaganda anyways, the RWR is the Spanish Indra ALR-400, so blame the Spanish. As for missiles you can blame the Italians for giving a license to produce the Aspide missile in China and decades of improvement since then. Blame the Italians there, it’s CM resistance still sucks compared to AMRAAM.

 

As for data they verified the FM at Chengdu, they got the real coefficients for everything from “somewhere,” yes there is not as much data as other older planes out there, but I don’t think that’s the best reason to say it’s over powered propaganda. Hell how many devs actually go to the factories that make the weapons to model them correctly.

 

Over powered? It’s kinectically beaten by F-16 in all conditions but rate of G onset, that’s basically it’s only advantage and it only has a max of 8G . I have no idea why you would call it FC3, if it’s so over powered for propaganda why is it G limited to less G then a peacetime Tomcat at high speed? In guns its disadvantaged becuase it’s gunsight sucks as much as Mirage and the gun even points downward a couple degrees. Or if it’s so overpowered why is to limited to Mach 1.6. Why is it so cheap it doesn’t even have HMS or high off boresight missiles. So overpowered with only two CM buckets? Hell it can’t even have more then one comm channel and datalink open at the same time. If it’s so overpowered why does its radar have no EXP mode and can only fire on two targets at once with only +/-30 degrees scan elevation when all the other fourth gen American planes have 60 degree gimbals. Why is it’s radar have tighter bar grouping and less bar elevation. It has a lot of limitations that are not immediately obvious and are certainly there in the sim, you can check the radar LUA, can’t look more then 30 degrees up:)

 

If you want to help fix what’s “overpowered” for propaganda purposes the best thing you can do is open a bug report on their forum. I can’t believe people have so little faith in a design that originated with Grumman, yet the Tomcat is so truly awesome it should’ve never gone out of production.

 

If there’s evidence of where it’s “error in capability falls to the side of better performance,” please post it on Deka forum for us all to see and for the devs to correct it.


Edited by AeriaGloria

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he didn’t know how to tell the tell the difference, if t was MWS picking it up it would only say M.

 

 

It's stuff like this that shows how unreliable the GR videos are. It can be fun content, but it's nowhere near rigorous enough to make solid claims about anything in DCS.

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I fly the Jeff a lot, and you can absolutely notch the radar and break locks. Good players do it to me all the time.

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IMO, I'm afraid the behavior on the F-16's AN/APG-68(as the reference) is completely wrong in the video.

 

If you have any F-16 real plane manual, it will show U the AN/APG-68V5 and AN/APG-66V2 have a function called COAST in STT, which the radar will have a 4 secs memory time and will try to relock the target automatically within the time limit if possible when the target getting close to notch.

 

So if the radar's dopper gate is quite small(not the 120kts of AWG9), and the target left the dopper filter area too fast(target can distinguished be from the main beam clutter), the radar will not easily drop the track.

 

Now back to DCS, U can already experienced this with a F/A-18C's APG-73, when the target is notching, the TD box will go segmented indicate the coast mode, if the target turned out too fast, the TD box will go solid again indicate the resume of radar track. Target lock will not be dropped immediately if radar can resume the track fast enough.

 

The F-16's system is still at early stage at this time, so it's not a good reference if U want to test notching.

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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Rule no. 1: Never ever trust any claims, numbers or promises coming from China or chinese companies.

 

Rule N°2 : Never ever trust any claims, numbers or promises coming from USA or US companies.(in fact need to be rule n°1)

 

Their so called "revolutionary" stealth fighter J-20

You mean like the so called "revolutionnary" steath" F-117 :lol:

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Rule N°2 : Never ever trust any claims, numbers or promises coming from USA or US companies.(in fact need to be rule n°1)

 

 

You mean like the so called "revolutionnary" steath" F-117 :lol:

 

The F-117 was revolutionary at the time it was developed. If you're old enough you should remember the Iraqi curtain fire over Bagdad, at the beginning of the Golf War. All the AAA fire didn't hit a single F-117, because radar simply couldn't "see" it. In my opinion that was revolutionary.

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The F-117 was revolutionary at the time it was developed..

No

The F117 was killed by a serbian SA-3 (russian technology from...1960):)

 

All the AAA fire didn't hit a single F-117, because radar simply couldn't "see" it. In my opinion that was revolutionary.

You mean only old serbian radars can see it,

who can believe that ? :)

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Due to lag of time i asked Cap if he can do a video on it. I think its on yt now and he made his own thread so you can close this one.

 

No one has uploaded a track but here’s this response https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4245985&postcount=6

 

Point is if Cap wanted to test it again properly he should test it against F-18 radar which is finished and has COAST/MEM function for four seconds. If Cap did this test he would find the Hornet radar behaving the same as JF-17. Not seeing it maintain lock the instant someone enters the notch but seeing how long it can maintain lock once someone is in the notch would be the thing to test, whether fourth seconds or 30. It would be interesting to find out how long the COAST/MEM function works for in JF-17, but unfortunately I don’t see Cap doing that test.

 

The Grim Reapers are a fun bunch of people, but their test doesn’t say much, I mean during the MWS system video he was singing to himself about finding bugs with the Chinese as if it makes him happy, I could get past that if the tests were rigorous and researched but it just shows bias to me.

 

EDIT: looked at the video comments. Someone pointed out that in Deka’s Radar video that it is stated the radar can hold memory for up to 10 seconds, and that Cap should have tested it to beyond ten seconds. Caps response was that “I don;t buy it, but will investigate.” I hope he does and learns a bit about the planes he’s been flying, will watch if he re does it, but if it’s like all his other “finding bugs with the JF-17” videos that are flawed and never re done I don’t expect it to be. It’s like he has it out for this plane


Edited by AeriaGloria

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IMO, I'm afraid the behavior on the F-16's AN/APG-68(as the reference) is completely wrong in the video.

 

If you have any F-16 real plane manual, it will show U the AN/APG-68V5 and AN/APG-66V2 have a function called COAST in STT, which the radar will have a 4 secs memory time and will try to relock the target automatically within the time limit if possible when the target getting close to notch.

 

So if the radar's dopper gate is quite small(not the 120kts of AWG9), and the target left the dopper filter area too fast(target can distinguished be from the main beam clutter), the radar will not easily drop the track.

 

Now back to DCS, U can already experienced this with a F/A-18C's APG-73, when the target is notching, the TD box will go segmented indicate the coast mode, if the target turned out too fast, the TD box will go solid again indicate the resume of radar track. Target lock will not be dropped immediately if radar can resume the track fast enough.

 

The F-16's system is still at early stage at this time, so it's not a good reference if U want to test notching.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for getting that straight, foxwxl!:thumbup: It was really painful seeing this GR video on YT with nothing but bs in it (sorry GRs). With a little more research it surely would have been possible for some of these gentlemen to enlighten themselves about the principles of modern radar technology and the above mentioned radars and their implementation in DCS. Still scratching my head by the way why so many people seem to think that you guys at DEKA must be in error all the time considering the development state of some of the ED modules (...do I really need to mention things like the steering dot and DLZ calculation?:D).

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IMO, the APG-73 AA function is more complete than the Jeff, it can show U the COAST and the Notch very clearly. And Jeff is still much WIP ,the radar behavior still need to be tweaked and updated.

 

Anyway, our radar engineer will continuously improve the radar's behavior and performance. But right now his major job is bug fixing.

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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Thank you for getting that straight, foxwxl!:thumbup: It was really painful seeing this GR video on YT with nothing but bs in it (sorry GRs). With a little more research it surely would have been possible for some of these gentlemen to enlighten themselves about the principles of modern radar technology and the above mentioned radars and their implementation in DCS. Still scratching my head by the way why so many people seem to think that you guys at DEKA must be in error all the time considering the development state of some of the ED modules (...do I really need to mention things like the steering dot and DLZ calculation?:D).

 

EA module will always have some bugs, including the Jeff.;)

 

Although the radar behavior should not work like the F-16 (immediately drop track when target close to notch) in the video (basically because of the incomplete of APG-68 coding), the Jeff's radar behavior is also not very satisfactory IMO(it should behave like the APG-73 in certain way), and need to be improved.

 

So, GR's video is still helpful in one way or another.:D We are grateful that people do care and love this module.

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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Thanks, if COAST/MEM functions show on the TD box like APG-73 that will be really cool. Here’s the radar instructional video, it should start at about 6:10 to be where the 10 second memory time is stated, if anyone is interested. Would be cool to have the GR video done again like Mi-8 armor video


Edited by AeriaGloria

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No

The F117 was killed by a serbian SA-3 (russian technology from...1960):)

 

 

You mean only old serbian radars can see it,

who can believe that ? :)

 

You should always find out about a topic before you say anything about it. Have you ever read about how the Serbs shot down the F-117? Every aircraft has a radar signature. It is only smaller the more stealthy an aircraft is. The radar signature of an F-117 can be received with any radar system. The Serbs had precise information about the F-117's entry and exit corridor and the approximate time. They simply parked an anti-aircraft system in the corridor and waited to get the smallest radar echo. In such a scenario any other stealth aircraft would have been taken out of the sky, whether F-22, F35 or Su-57.


Edited by norbot

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Here’s the radar instructional video, it should start at about 6:10 to be where the 10 second memory time is stated, if anyone is interested.

Thanks, I knew I'd read/seen something about the JF-17 radar's memory mode but had forgotten where.

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Dude its been covered in detail stop spamming us about it. You can notch the radar and its rwr picking up the missile not the mws.

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You should always find out about a topic before you say anything about it. Have you ever read about how the Serbs shot down the F-117?.....The Serbs had precise information about the F-117's entry and exit corridor and the approximate time. They simply parked an anti-aircraft system in the corridor and waited to get the smallest radar echo. In such a scenario any other stealth aircraft would have been taken out of the sky, whether F-22, F35 or Su-57.

 

Ahaha, everyone knows about this story for children, it's just like always, US propaganda version

to cover up their incompetence.

 

If you want the true story, ask lieutenant "zoltan dani" commander of Serbian SAM forces.

To sum up, he didn't even know that they shot down a F-117 and i remember the serbian slogan "Ooops, sorry we didn't know it was a stealthy fighter" :lol:

 

Ok, i am done with your "stealthy revolutionnary F-117" :) you can believe what you want, it will not change the truth.

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...

 

Ok, i am done with your "stealthy revolutionnary F-117" :) you can believe what you want, it will not change the truth.

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking about your story. :)

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Off-Topic

 

I can’t believe people have so little faith in a design that originated with Grumman, yet the Tomcat is so truly awesome it should’ve never gone out of production.

 

I have always wondered that has anyone done a economical research about F-14D taken out of service because price, that how much it would have been difference to maintain it in the fleet instead F/A-18 platform and F-22 design as well F-35 design in total?

 

The F-14 was very expensive platform, but how much difference it would have truly made in 20-30 extra years?

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bugs el range on TDC and 3/9 notch check

are fixed internally, to be tested.

 

Ehhh, before you add that notch check, please remember to add the MEM functionality and background/terrain noise check.

 

I don't think a radar would lose lock at a target flying way above the emitter simply because he turned sideways

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Ehhh, before you add that notch check, please remember to add the MEM functionality and background/terrain noise check.

 

I don't think a radar would lose lock at a target flying way above the emitter simply because he turned sideways

 

MEM was there already, rws MEM 4 worked since day 1.

notch check sequence need more test to work properly.

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