How to turn the AJS 37 into an AJ 37?

[Leviathan667]

Hi,

 

I'd like to make sure I got all the steps (short of the real thing) to turn the AJS into an AJ:

 

• Turn off TERNAV (Input TAKT 581)
  
• Do not use RB-15F and Bk-90 weapons
  
• Anything else?
  

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited list following the comments received up to 20200216 at 2140z

 

• Turn TERNAV off (Input TAKT 581)
  
• Cannot not use Rb-15F, Bk-90 and Rb-74 weapons
  
• Can only use Rb-24, Rb-24J and Rb-75 on stores S7V and S7H
  
• Cannot concurrently use Rb-24 and Rb-75
  
• Cannot use more than 8 Lysbombs or SB-71 if loading the plane with Rb-24 missiles
  
• Cannot use the data cartridge. Have to setup the flight plan manually with the data panel
  
• Cannot use SPA mode
  

Edited February 16, 2020 by Leviathan667

[tykbry]

Only use old sidewinder, and don't use maverik

[renhanxue]

Maverick is OK, it was integrated on the AJ 37. Rb 74 is out though, you're right on that part.

 

 

In practical terms I think that should be it, I can't think of anything else off the top of my head that's relevant to DCS. Technically you shouldn't use the data cartridge either and just manually enter the flight plan yourself, but that's just pointless self-flagellation IMO.

[Leviathan667]

So there was no cartridge to download flight plans from on the AJ37? The cartridge tech is so 1960/1970 I thought that the AJS inherited this "primitive" way feeding it's computer?

[renhanxue]

So there was no cartridge to download flight plans from on the AJ37? The cartridge tech is so 1960/1970 I thought that the AJS inherited this "primitive" way feeding it's computer?

No, the cartridge is a 1990's thing, there was no way you could fit that much memory into something that small in the 1960's. The original ferrite core memory for the CK37 in all its glory was a box roughly the size of a microwave oven that weighed something like 15 kg. This contained 8192 28-bit words, or about 28 kilobytes in modern units. The data cartridge has 8 megabytes of storage powered by a 3,5 V battery. The entire TERNAV system is on the data cartridge, both the altitude database and the TERNAV program itself.

 

 

Oh and I forgot one thing, you can't carry the U22/A pod on the AJ 37, and even if you could, you can't do ELINT missions on the AJ 37 either because the RWR data is saved to the cartridge, not to the pod or to the CK 37.

 

 

 

 

As an aside, how do you load flight plans into other aircraft that are contemporary with the AJ 37? I don't think I've recalled hearing anything about things like data cartridges for the F-14, for one.

Edited February 16, 2020 by renhanxue

[Skyracer]

The AJ could only carry two sidewinders. Since i am lazy you have to translate "före AJS-mod" yourself.

But yeah chart explains it all

Edited February 17, 2020 by Skyracer

[Skyracer]

Another one..

[renhanxue]

Right, only two rb 75/rb 05 too.

[Leviathan667]

Thanks for the very comprehensive replies, renhanxue & Skyracer :)

[frosen]

How do you update the INS if the TERNAV is off?

[TLTeo]

How do you update the INS if the TERNAV is off?

 

 

With radar or visual fixes

[Leviathan667]

How do you update the INS if the TERNAV is off?

 

To add to what TLTeo said:see the RC2 manual, p. 264 to 266

[Harlikwin]

Hopefully this could be somehow turned on as an option for cold war MP servers.

[Machalot]

On 2/16/2020 at 10:36 AM, renhanxue said:

As an aside, how do you load flight plans into other aircraft that are contemporary with the AJ 37? I don't think I've recalled hearing anything about things like data cartridges for the F-14, for one.

I think the RIO typed them in.

[Northstar98]

Yeah, the RIO types the coordinates in, though in the Tomcat there aren't many waypoints - certainly a lot less than the Viggen.

The Tomcat only has 3 'flight plan' waypoints + own position for INS, fixed point, initial point, hostile area, surface target and home base IIRC.

The Viggen has 9 navigation waypoints, 9 Bx points (kinda like mark points if you will), a takeoff waypoint, up to 2 landing waypoints. It can also have 8 reconnaissance points (corner and centre points) as well as a pop-up point (though you could in theory select all the navigation waypoints as targets and have a pop-up for each AFAIK).

Though the AJ 37 could in theory be a fairly easy variant for HB after they complete their current projects and fix the current aircraft, with removing stuff being the only thing to do. Though they probably would have to model the cockpit to remove the data-cartridge slot (though they could while they're at it, put the EP13 control panel in and fix the textures on the countermeasures switch on the canopy frame).

Edited July 3, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Sideburns]

Very interesting, cheers for collating. Going to go give my AJ-37 a try

 

[Leviathan667]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:02 AM, Northstar98 said:

[...]

 

Though the AJ 37 could in theory be a fairly easy variant for HB after they complete their current projects and fix the current aircraft, with removing stuff being the only thing to do. Though they probably would have to model the cockpit to remove the data-cartridge slot (though they could while they're at it, put the EP13 control panel in and fix the textures on the countermeasures switch on the canopy frame).

 

 

I may add SPA mode should also be removed from the mode selector and TERNAV from the CK's capabilities.

 

@IronMike

@Cobra847

 

Can we ask you to add this "downgrading" of the AJS 37 into an AJ 37 to your roadmap, pls?

[frosen]

1 hour ago, Leviathan667 said:

 

I may add SPA mode should also be removed from the mode selector and TERNAV from the CK's capabilities.

 

@IronMike

@Cobra847

 

Can we ask you to add this "downgrading" of the AJS 37 into an AJ 37 to your roadmap, pls?

 

The CK data panel should also be changed then.

[IronMike]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:06 PM, Leviathan667 said:

 

I may add SPA mode should also be removed from the mode selector and TERNAV from the CK's capabilities.

 

@IronMike

@Cobra847

 

Can we ask you to add this "downgrading" of the AJS 37 into an AJ 37 to your roadmap, pls?

 

Thank you for the suggestion, guys. We will take a look if this would be an option for us, but no promises for now, so you do not get your hopes high.

[frosen]

4 hours ago, IronMike said:

 

Thank you for the suggestion, guys. We will take a look if this would be an option for us, but no promises for now, so you do not get your hopes high.

 

I guess this request only applies to the real puritans ... maybe it's better that you commit your resources to the demands of the greater community like J 35 Draken or JA 37? 

[Leviathan667]

10 hours ago, IronMike said:

 

Thank you for the suggestion, guys. We will take a look if this would be an option for us, but no promises for now, so you do not get your hopes high.

Thanks IronMike

[bies]

Having slightly modified AJ-37 as variant, like F-14A, would be fantastic expanding Viggen's timeframe considerably into cold war era when Viggen truly shined.

 

I keep my fingers crossed.

Edited May 27, 2021 by bies

[TLTeo]

That would be cool! Imagine actually having to take care of the nav system like people claim we have to do, rather than let TERNAV do all the hard work

[Northstar98]

On 5/26/2021 at 6:54 PM, frosen said:

 

I guess this request only applies to the real puritans ... maybe it's better that you commit your resources to the demands of the greater community like J 35 Draken or JA 37? 

IIRC I'm pretty sure the JA 37 is off the table anyway due to a lack of data (which is also why they can't do a JAS 39, as some of its systems have some commonality with the JA 37).

While I would absolutely love to get an J 35D/F/F-2/J, it will be something completely new, we only had a 3D model in the works so far for an AI model; by comparison, at least on paper, the AJ 37 should be a fairly easy variant to do, being an almost entirely copy and paste job of our current AJS 37, with only a couple of fairly easy changes such as alterations to the cockpit (remove data cartridge slot and SPA related stuff), removal of certain weapons (BK90, Rb-15F, U22/A, unsure about the Rb-74), as well as the removal of the CK 37 addresses for them and finally remove TERNAV from the CK 37.

The rest is identical AFAIK (same RADAR, same external model, same FDM, same engine, same RWR and apart from above, the same cockpit).

The reason for the AJ 37 is it was the variant that had the longest service life and is much more appropriate for the Cold War (the AJS 37 is mid 90s)

Edited July 3, 2022 by Northstar98
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[renhanxue]

IIRC the JA 37 flight manual has a 1981 publish date so with the standard 40 year declassification term it should in principle be possible to get it declassified now without too much trouble. Better be prepared to wait a year or so for the national archives to handle the request though.

Edited May 28, 2021 by renhanxue