Eurasian medium fighters (what would you like to see?)

[Avimimus]

Out of curiosity, if you had your own firm and were given permission to produce a spin off of DCS:BS, which medium fighter aircraft would you like to see?

 

These polls will be going up in groups of three once every two weeks.

To comment/design future polls see: http://forum.digitalcombatsimulator.com/showthread.php?t=198

[RedTiger]

First vote!

 

MiG-29!

 

Sorry Eurofans. :cry: :P

[Eagle Driver]

For me it was split between the M2K and the Fulcrum. Although I really like the Mirage about a thousand times better than I could ever like the MiG, which has no place in the skies anyway, there is the home-turf advantage for ED. A MiG-29 has already been modelled, which means that ED has a lot of basic information already for creating a DCS-level MiG. However, I do really like the Mirage on a bunch of levels, the MICA-IR is something to cherish. Anyone whose seen clips from that one French movie I can't pronounce the name of would instantly want to fly the mirage as it really is very elegant in its looks both interior and exterior. Practically speaking, doing both would likely be the best choice as it would give the proper NATO/USSR balance without having to create YET ANOTHER F-16.

I voted Mirage 2000.

[forlorn]

Mig-23 - workhorse power, yeah! :D

[zone 5]

Mig 29. It's the premiere medium fighter the USAF faced in Gulf War 1, Allied Force and was the fighter Western airforces were most likely to face. Home turf advantage of DCS being Russian plus the fact the basic Mig 29 is completely compromised (USAF recovery operations from Gulf War 1, declassified manual on amazon!) means we have an opportunity to have an unprecedented level of accuracy in a medium fighter. Great for Blue / Red matchups and the basic model looked fantastic in lomac, one can only guess how good the models in development for blackshark when it was perceived as a lomac add on looked. Its a quick aircraft (intheory) for dcs to model. Avionics are already done and physical model was reportedly in development.

[RedTiger]

Mig 29. It's the premiere medium fighter the USAF faced in Gulf War 1, Allied Force and was the fighter Western airforces were most likely to face. Home turf advantage of DCS being Russian plus the fact the basic Mig 29 is completely compromised (USAF recovery operations from Gulf War 1, declassified manual on amazon!) means we have an opportunity to have an unprecedented level of accuracy in a medium fighter. Great for Blue / Red matchups and the basic model looked fantastic in lomac, one can only guess how good the models in development for blackshark when it was perceived as a lomac add on looked. Its a quick aircraft (intheory) for dcs to model. Avionics are already done and physical model was reportedly in development.

 

I hope if we get a Fulcrum, its a more modern one. Less like a Cold War export MiG-29 (in other words, a down-graded crap fake MiG) and more along the lines of the MiG-29SMT multirole fighter. Something more advanced but also likely to actually be fielded.

[Squirrell]

the SMT would not be a good choice for the simple reason that there would be too much guess work required to model it accutarely, which in turn would NEGATIVELY affect gameplay

[RedTiger]

the SMT would not be a good choice for the simple reason that there would be too much guess work required to model it accutarely, which in turn would NEGATIVELY affect gameplay

 

There's guess work involved in EVERY sim. Much of the information is classified. Are game developers really privy to the Rmax range and NEZ of the AMRAAM? No...but that doesn't stop them from trying to model it, even if they do it poorly in some cases. :music_whistling:

 

If ED can model rather rare stuff like the Ka-50 and the Su-25T, why can't they model a rare and more modern MiG? Did they just randomly stumble upon a bunch of information about those two aircraft -- enough to create a super-detailed sim?

[Squirrell]

The purpose of dcs is to eliminate inacuracy and promote detail and accuracy, surely you would agree they are privy to MORE infromation about the MiG-29 than the MiG-29SMT because the information needed to accurately model the MiG-29 is de-classified?

 

As DCS's objective is to provide gamers with the accuracy they desire, they would be better served bringing out a model like the MiG-29, regardless of whether it is in service or not, than the MiG-29SMT because they have the information required to accurately model it, and accuracy is what the game promotes.

 

I personally would prefer to have an older model like the MiG-29 modeled ACCURATELY in the short term, over having nothing or inaccuracy.

 

Good things take time RedTiger, wouldnt you like to at least fly an accurate and detailed MiG-29, even if it is older, while you wait for an accurate model of your precious SMT??

[zone 5]

While there' guesswork in every sim, where does it end? With a Mig 29 we can be fairly sure of its R27s rmax and rmin values, the Slot Back's nominal detection ranges etc. Though Ed has done a magnificent job of modelling arguably modern and obscure aircraft like the Su 25 and Blackshark neither has advanced modern multimode radars. The Su 25 / Blackshark weapons system is primarily optical, as such it can be modelled quite accurately. Now the SMK radar? Do we even know which radar it is? It could be Slot Back, Topaz M or Zhuk. Russia barely has any upgraded so that leaves Algeria with equipment standards we dont know for certain. Who knows anything about Zhuks operating modes for instance? China perhaps, Ed unlikely. For a survey simulation this probably doesnt matter but DCS is clearly aiming for unprecedented detail. Thats why the Apache is A model not Longbow. No user manuals, no high fidelity avionics flight models so while it would be nice to have, an SMT is unlikely.

[Haele]

Voted for the Viggen, it really is something a bit special and not something you often see in sims.

[Malleus]

Mig-29. I'd be fine with an M or SM variant, if the SMT is "too new". But it definitely should be one of the multirole models.

[RedTiger]

While there' guesswork in every sim, where does it end?

 

The day that no information is classified, obviously. ;)

 

With a Mig 29 we can be fairly sure of its R27s rmax and rmin values, the Slot Back's nominal detection ranges etc. Though Ed has done a magnificent job of modelling arguably modern and obscure aircraft like the Su 25 and Blackshark neither has advanced modern multimode radars. The Su 25 / Blackshark weapons system is primarily optical, as such it can be modelled quite accurately. Now the SMK radar? Do we even know which radar it is? It could be Slot Back, Topaz M or Zhuk. Russia barely has any upgraded so that leaves Algeria with equipment standards we dont know for certain. Who knows anything about Zhuks operating modes for instance? China perhaps, Ed unlikely. For a survey simulation this probably doesnt matter but DCS is clearly aiming for unprecedented detail. Thats why the Apache is A model not Longbow. No user manuals, no high fidelity avionics flight models so while it would be nice to have, an SMT is unlikely.

 

You make a good point about the MiG-29SMT, to be sure. Its one that I didn't consider. For example, if we know at least what type of radar a plane has, it can be modeled with publicly available figures. If this isn't even available, then yes, it would be a guess.

 

I'm with you, Squirrell, and others about the realism factor - believe me!

 

To play devil's advocate, this is going to make things difficult for ED. What they are trying to do here is a make a study sims series with a number of aircraft that you'd usually only see in a survey sim! If there's going to be zero guess work, what will be the outcome?

 

I foresee that ED will have very limited choices in what they put in DCS. Maybe this is for the better. I just hope the choices are appealing to me.

[Weta43]

I'm fairly sure that I read in an iterview with one of the ED team that the reason they said they would do a Mig-29 variant (& presumably instead of starting with what must be their emotional favourite the Su-27) is that they had come to an arrangement with MIKOYAN-GUREVICH for them to provide information regarding a version of the MiG-29 for the sim.

If MiG are providing accurate info (& it will at least be in part for the publicity), presumably it won't be for the weakest variant they produce...

[The_GOZR]

Mirage 2K and MiG29 ;)

[HungaroJET]

VIGGEN :thumbup:

 

I love that machine...chiefly when it accelerate backward :)

 

...but 1st let the Fulcrum fly ! :D

[RedTiger]

I'm fairly sure that I read in an iterview with one of the ED team that the reason they said they would do a Mig-29 variant (& presumably instead of starting with what must be their emotional favourite the Su-27) is that they had come to an arrangement with MIKOYAN-GUREVICH for them to provide information regarding a version of the MiG-29 for the sim.

If MiG are providing accurate info (& it will at least be in part for the publicity), presumably it won't be for the weakest variant they produce...

 

This is another reason why I brought up the SMT. I also fairly sure that I've heard the same thing.

 

Military based games are already unofficial publicity for various arms manufacturers (how many games can you name that have had the MP5 submachine gun, or at least a copy of it?), it would be awesome to have Mikoyan give their stamp of approval to a MiG-29 DCS module! :thumbsup:

[zone 5]

The IDEAL situation would be the original Mig 29 modeled plus the SMT variants. Remember the SMT comes in several models. Baseline, with hump and with newer radars. The advantage for Ed is they already have a very nice Mig 29 3d model of the standard Mig 29, and then could add the hump and zhuk radar. Personally though anything with Zhuk or the hump are problematic from a flight model and avionics fidelity viewpoint. Only the standard Mig 29 can be modelled with near total accuracy so I hope this is the model Ed goes with. An SMT and MRCA variant would make fantastic future modules as more info becomes available.

[zone 5]

oops link for above pics http://www.lockon-models.com/index.php?showtopic=116

[kapuhy]

Viggen-you don't see it to often, MiG-23 next in line-probably not to big chances :/

[MBot]

That is again a hard poll with lots of great choices. I am torn between the Mirage 2000 and F1. For ground attack I'd prefer the F1 but as it is about a pure fighter I went with the Mirage 2000.

 

If it had to be Russian I would take the MiG-23. The MiG-29 seems to be very popular, but somehow it doesn't have the special something to me.

[Eagle Driver]

Wow, I almost want the MiG after seeing that model, that is delicious! Then again, a Mirage 2000-5 done up like that *sigh* that would be great.

[Weta43]

Did you notice that between the 2 polls :

Eurasian medium fighters (what would you like to see?)

&

Anglo medium fighters (what would you like to see?)

You have offered a choice between 9 blue aircraft & only 2 Red.

 

Mirage F-16, F/A-18, Mirage F1, Mirage III, Mirage 2000, F4F, Harrier, Tornado and Viggen, but no MiG-27K,

maybe a MiG-21 variant

 

"The Dutch pilot Leon Van Maurer, who had more than 1200 hours flying F-16s, flew against MiG-23ML Flogger-Gs from air bases in Germany and the U.S. as part of NATO's aerial mock combat training with Soviet equipment. He concluded that the MiG-23ML has superiority on the vertical plane over early F-16 variants, is just slightly inferior to the F-16A on the horizontal plane, and has superior BVR capability."

[GreyStork]

If I had to choose one from the poll (only 4th generation fighters), I'd say Mirage 2000. On the other hand, if I could pick any aircraft, I'd say Su-35 Flanker-E, with second place going to MiG-35 Fulcrum-F. I'll throw in the Rafale on a third place as well.

[Guest Flyboy77]

MiG-29 but it better be a SMT or higher.

 

The fighter that I would like to see the most is the MiG-35 but it's to new.