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Dogfighting tips, tricks, tutorials


Dannyvandelft

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I'm still fairly new to DCS and sim flight in general. I fly in VR with the Rift S if that matters, but in a turn fight I keep losing the plane. I'll be on a bandit, or trying to turn inside it, mainly in the instant action F-16 guns only mission, and at some point I just lose too much energy. I like the challenge, but I could use help.

 

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As far as tutorials go, I'd suggest looking up some videos on youtube by Jabbers and even a few by Grim Reapers that are pretty helpful.

 

As for some tips, the simpler means to dogfighting in an F-14 is to remember it's ideally an energy fighter. Trying to out turn highly manuerable aircraft like F-16s, Mig-29s etc is going to be extremely challenging, though not impossible. It's probably recommended for beginners to work on out running and/or out climbing the enemy to reset the engagement, then turn back in with quick passes. Of course this may not work so well against other energy fighters.

 

If you're really interested in working on turning performance, you'll need to make good use of the flaps and slats. Which can greatly reduce the F-14s turning circle. Though you'll wanna be careful to try not to damage the slats in particular, as turning at high speed with them deployed can cause them to get stuck. Though that'll hardly cause you much problems, outside of alittle more drag.

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I'm still fairly new to DCS and sim flight in general. I fly in VR with the Rift S if that matters, but in a turn fight I keep losing the plane. I'll be on a bandit, or trying to turn inside it, mainly in the instant action F-16 guns only mission, and at some point I just lose too much energy. I like the challenge, but I could use help.

 

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F5 helped me when I started, just to build situational awareness. It shows the enemy aircraft in relation to you. Other than that, like below, learn the dogfighting capabilities of the aircraft. At low speeds, <250 kts, the F-14 can turn with most planes. Few can keep up with it. Practice, practice, practice...

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As for videos, checkout Growling Sidewinder’s channel. He does some of the best dogfight analysis of DCS. You don’t have to restrict yourself only on the ones about F14 as the concept is the same for all aircrafts. Learn the idea and apply it on the F14, which luckily is a very capable dogfighter that can do everything decent except rolling.

 

In terms of capabilities, I beg to differ with Marxman. Tomcat is by far the best modern turn fighter in game IMO. It can achieve its peak sustained turn rate (which is on par with other fighters) at 300-350 kt range, which is low and results in a smaller turning circle. Moreover, with use of landing flaps Tomcat keeps its turning performance at airspeed as low as 200-250 kt. Another benefit of a low sustained turning speed is that when you get too slow, you don’t need a lot of effort to get back to speed. In fact, against an AI fighter at my 6 which is not a WWII fighter or a Mig15 I can confidently swing my nose around quickly and show him my middle finger.

 

As for acceleration and climbing performance, the Tomcat is good but not as good as an F15/16 or Mig29. Can it keep up in a high speed vertical fight? You’ll have to try with another human opponent. Against AI, with proper stick and throttle management it can keep looping with anyone and eventually win the loop.

 

Then you have the AoA performance, pull your stick and turn with rudder. As long as you refrain from using lateral stick, you don’t get the annoying wing rock.

 

The only downside of Tomcat in terms of knife fight capability, is its roll rate. Don’t expect to win a flat scissor against anyone that’s not an AI.

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Experiences can vary, but by no means do I disagree with the full turning capabilities of an F-14. I recall a recent video by Grim Reapers of a guy who really knew his stuff when it came to the Tomcat, that managed to out turn 3 F-16s in a gun fight. The plane is perfectly capable of some amazing stuff, it just takes alot more effort then most highly manoeuvrable aircraft to do so. Atleast in my experience.

 

It is also true that energy retention is more forgiving with the Tomcat than some aircraft. Though during a turn fight, one of the most important things I found to keep an eye on is the wing sweep. You hit the throttle for too long, and those wings will close on you, killing that turning performance. So keep a close eye on that wing sweep indicator when you choose to add some power to your turn.

 

I have a buddy who often RIOs for me in the F-14, and is kind enough to regularly read out the TAS and wing sweep position during dogfights. Which really is a big help, due to the lack of info on the HUD. So don't hesitate to practice the aircraft with a human RIO, assuming you're able to. It's a good way to learn in the beginner stages for sure.

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I recommend finding Art of the Kill by Pete Bonani, it was the book that helped me the most with the fundamentals. It can be found free online and isn’t too long. Keep in mind it’s meant for the F-16 but it’s all concepts so once you get a handle on it you can adjust it for the Tomcat.

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Oh, please, not the landing flaps advice. You use maneuvering flaps instead at lower speeds, which you can manually control with DLC wheel on the stick.

 

Some tips:

- don't pull too hard (keep up to 17 units of AoA), pull more to slow down and tighten the turn, less to accelerate

- keep the speed around M0.5-0.6

- if it rattles too much you're either too slow or pulling too hard

- if you hear squeeks and blacking out you're too fast and pulling too hard

- don't mix lateral with longitudinal movement on the stick - but it's fine and recommended to use rudders for rolling during high AoA pulling

 

If you train with F-16 AI and it's too hard on you, train with Su-27 first - it's way easier. Remember AI uses simplified flight model and it's not good representation of aircraft performance but it's still possible to win. You can also try reducing your fuel quantity in ME - it's a great difference flying lighter aircraft.

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Oh, please, not the landing flaps advice. You use maneuvering flaps instead at lower speeds, which you can manually control with DLC wheel on the stick.

 

Some tips:

- don't pull too hard (keep up to 17 units of AoA), pull more to slow down and tighten the turn, less to accelerate

- keep the speed around M0.5-0.6

- if it rattles too much you're either too slow or pulling too hard

- if you hear squeeks and blacking out you're too fast and pulling too hard

- don't mix lateral with longitudinal movement on the stick - but it's fine and recommended to use rudders for rolling during high AoA pulling

 

If you train with F-16 AI and it's too hard on you, train with Su-27 first - it's way easier. Remember AI uses simplified flight model and it's not good representation of aircraft performance but it's still possible to win. You can also try reducing your fuel quantity in ME - it's a great difference flying lighter aircraft.

Managed to get a kill on the F-16, been training every day so far. Getting better. I'm actively using the rudder to help control the plane and it's making a huge difference. The SU-27 I downed on the second try.

I wish we either had airspeed on the HUD or Jester calling out speeds. Sometimes I'll be chasing and I'll bleed too much energy and she'll drop her nose in an instant.

 

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Just the way it is with the 14. Hud sucks, kias gauge sucks. You have to learn the shakes of the cockpit, eyeball the aoa tape, and get a sense of motion from terrain.

 

I personally wouldn't recommend starting dog fights with flaps. You need to learn how to fly the plane before you start throwing flaps around. Learn how to fly, as in, what your turning air speed should be, why you stay horizontal vs going vertical, how much aoa you pull in the turn, etc etc.

 

Also realize that the AI has bad tactics and broken flight models. The hardest ai to gun duel is probably the F-5 because it acts like a UFO and ignores physics. You'll need to ultra manage your energy and not play the vertical loop game because you aren't a ufo like it.

 

 

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Managed to get a kill on the F-16, been training every day so far. Getting better. I'm actively using the rudder to help control the plane and it's making a huge difference. The SU-27 I downed on the second try.

I wish we either had airspeed on the HUD or Jester calling out speeds. Sometimes I'll be chasing and I'll bleed too much energy and she'll drop her nose in an instant.

 

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Good job, don't give up! :thumbup:

 

Soon you'll learn to read and listen to the signals she is sending you through the audio-video feed backs and you won't even need the AoA meter. And if you fly in VR, you won't even need a radar lock to shoot down bandits with guns :thumbup:

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I'm still fairly new to DCS and sim flight in general. I fly in VR with the Rift S if that matters, but in a turn fight I keep losing the plane. I'll be on a bandit, or trying to turn inside it, mainly in the instant action F-16 guns only mission, and at some point I just lose too much energy. I like the challenge, but I could use help.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

Check out DCS Debrief on YouTube for tips...my page is mostly about basics and user settings for DCS...but TYRO has a good start on some of the BFM/ACM Basics.

 

Oh, almost forgot, you can never go wrong watching the Grim Reapers...good stuff there! If ya know what I mean?


Edited by =JUICE=

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Two types of fight, the turn fight and the energy fight. Turn fights are usually only done by small, lightweight aircraft, while energy fighting can be done by any aircraft. Either can dominate the fight if you sucker the other guy into fighting the way you chose.

 

It helps immensely in an either type of fight to have some minimum speed you won't go below. I would be willing to bet that not having a minimum speed is your main problem, as you're likely stalling the jet. Especially in an energy fight, it's easy to lose your concentration and find yourself pulling into someone, not realizing that you're hemorrhaging energy and piling on drag.

 

Probably way too advanced for you right now, but a title to keep in mind is Aerial Attack Study by Col. John Boyd. The man was a great aerial and otherwise tactician, known as 40 Second Boyd. He could start out ahead of an opponent, and in 40 seconds from the "Fight's On!" call, he'd be on their tail. The guy knew his stuff.


Edited by KiraTheCat
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Oh, please, not the landing flaps advice. You use maneuvering flaps instead at lower speeds, which you can manually control with DLC wheel on the stick.

 

 

In the Grim Reapers video they specifically address the landing flaps as opposed to maneuvering flaps and use it to great success for instance against the (3) F-16s (although really it wasn't 1V3 is you think about it since one of the F-16s went into the ground early in the engagement).

 

 

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In the Grim Reapers video they specifically address the landing flaps as opposed to maneuvering flaps and use it to great success for instance against the (3) F-16s (although really it wasn't 1V3 is you think about it since one of the F-16s went into the ground early in the engagement).

Yes, it worked there but the guy would probably win anyway:

- not using full flaps tricks

- if they switched aircraft

- if there were even more less-experienced pilots against him.

 

It does come with some pros and cons.

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I'll try to find time to make a tutorial in English, which is not my native language. Anyway, here's a simple video I made from a BFM gunzo against an AI F-16C. On that one, most of the time, speed is quite high and AoA quite low, which is not always the case and also depends on the AI's behavior at the moment. I never use landing flaps in combat, and let the CADC manage the wings. I just use maneuver flaps (with the DLC thumbwheel) before each of the the three gun bursts which conclude the fight.

 

I think there is one important tip, whatever the fighter you're flying on: don't try to keep the bandit in your HUD. You'll waste your energy rather quickly. You'll only need him to spend one second in that HUD to get the kill. Be patient and build up that situation by flying your bird properly.

 

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