S D Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 This is very narrow minded Yoda1875. You assume that we can't find out, that it's hidden and that for some reason it's a coca-cola secret. No one wants or is asking for the compiled C code, we want to know the areas that have been changed so we can be more effective in our testing back to ED. Being focused to faster find and report issues in YOUR product. It's not a secret what they give us, it's the product itself. We get it, we use it and we find the issues plain as day. It's not unreasonable to simply say that "we refactored statics in the global mission environment to report to the namespaces of airbases better". It doesnt say what the code is, we don't need either the exact code they changed or the compiled code, just the areas they meddled with so we can check them, so that Open Beta is actually tested properly. Because it sure as hell isn't tested properly before it arrives, and the proof of that is in history. Any Lua changes are open code anyway. What ED currently do, is throw us a black box mystery every week and let fall over, then we troubleshoot why, duplicate our seperate efforts, report it multiple times it back, bury the forum and real issues in noise and mess, plunge moderators into frenzies, which costs us ALL time that could be avoided by having a reasonable data led approach. Remember we give them problems, they demand data like tracks and steps to reproduce? Well THEY give us problems too and we get none of the same courtesy back: Nick Grey, 1 month ago: Symbiotic does not mean equal, fair, intelligent or optimised. We have a completely one sided approach where ED do not discuss the majority of changes with us, yet we are completely open and detailed about what we find, in the SAME FORUMS. But the burden is on individuals working on their own without any clue as to what is coming. I'm asking we be efficient about this process, not for more QA. There is nothing wrong with being efficient and not wasting people's time. Might I remind everyone: ED are not just asking for our help, they need our help in testing They have one of the most complex sims/applications out there with a large codebase They currently provide one of the shortest and abbreviated change lists of any game developer in the public eye They opted for the open development model to all our benefit They frequently never mention new complete features, fixes or known issues, despite mentioning 'some' (got see the unofficial post for hidden features) We don't need a list that says "Cow in, textured, Cow texture broke, Cow now removed" more something like Refactoring X feature, added placeholder paratrooper event, added kill events, changed event ID's, changed airbase ID's. Their customer base is actually a few pegs up the evolutionary tree, folks capable of recalling multiple complex processes, talking whilst listening to two conversations and operating a simulation jet with reasonable accuracy simulataneously There are bundles of developers writing code, creating content, textures, models for their game Nothing I asked for was unreasonable, impossible, never been done before, or breaches a covenant. Everything I asked for benefits everyone, even if the average next Starfighter pilot couldnt care a less what even a static is or why airbase ID's are relevant, this is the start of where things get fixed and the speed with which it is done so that servers and missions and future missions and modules and content is better, faster. Agreed Pikey Few more people need to realise how handicapped currently the scripting community actually are. There certainly isnt anything like the kind of communication there should be, to be honest, needs to be. For effecient feedback/testing of under the hood issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 20, 2020 Author ED Team Share Posted March 20, 2020 not a trace of "playerID fixed" in changelog??? It is fixed thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngreenaway Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) Yet again, the eternal question... Why do users on Stable have to wait months and months and months for simple fixes like Is it absolutely necessary to get the updated Night Lighting/Super Carrier module etc working before that huge chunk of your user base gets some simple DLC fixes? Not really a fair question. "Patience" is the watchword of Stable, and this period of "months and months and months" between updates is pretty unprecedented. Previously it was stable update about every 3 weeks average. And if for no other reason than proper version control, yes it is necessary. I do electronic maintenance on industrial machinery, and we have one supplier who tends to play fast&loose with version control when doing updates...well, that was until a near catastrophic failure, and we locked them out (one of their patches was made to an earlier version of the software -they were working with multiple versions in-house - which wiped out vital information from a previous patch made for a later version of the software) It may suck having to wait, but that's what we have to do. Heck, it seems the Jeff may be out of early access before us early adopters on stable get to see it, but it is what it is. It may suck for some of us not having hotfixes the way you mentioned, but from a big picture perspective it's better to have 2 versions out in the field rather than a whole chaotic mishmash of versions by allowing all 3rd parties to release updates to stable whenever they pleased Edited March 20, 2020 by ngreenaway [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaTzo Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 The same performance as previous 2.5.6 iterations. Caucasus its unplayable, it sames something related with high CPU usage and terrain loading (huge stutter when use TV sensors maverick or TGP, looking to the horizon). Not encouraging. Won't be able to fly until tonight. Going to clean out my metashaders and fxo folders before I try it. F-14B, A-10C,F-18C Lot 20, F-16C, UH-1H, SA342, Spitfire LF Mk IX, F-15C, Mig-29, Supercarrier, Nevada, Persian Gulf i9 9900k 5.0GHz, 32GB RAM, 1080Ti, Rift S, Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind pedals, Dual Monitors 4K & 1080 Every Day, Someone Uses Cute Krispy Snacks [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tees Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 We are working with HB on the issue, but could not fix it for this patch. Thanks Just reverse mechanic of cat 3 patches back 303 & Friends discord Hangar : JF-17 Thunder, F-16C Viper, I-16, Christen Eagle II, F-14 Tomcat, Supercarrier, WWII Assets Pack, F/A-18C Hornet, AJS-37 Viggen, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, F-5E Tiger II, M-2000C, MiG-15bis, Bf 109 K-4 Kurfürst, Fw 190 D-9 Dora, F-86F Sabre, Flaming Cliffs 3, P-51D Mustang, A-10C Warthog,SA342 Gazelle, UH-1H Huey, Mi-8MTV2 Magnificent Eight, Black Shark II, Persian Gulf Map, Normandy 1944 Map, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just reverse mechanic of cat 3 patches back :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 If the DCS patchnotes actually said what they changed in DCS, then the folks that don't understand would see why it's so slow to get to stable and why we get pushed into "OB as live". There is so much under the hood maintenance and change in DCS core that just never comes to light. We see just a fraction of the effects, feel such a fraction of the bugs and are prvy to such a small amount of the total drama that goes on. It takes some experience and a leap of faith to imagine the scale of it all, so it does bug me, that people moan about delays to the supercarrier or whatever module whilst being oblivious to it all. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 It would be nice to see all the change details in the patch notes, but I do not expect it, because it can be hard to document something that is under constant development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbirder Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 It may suck for some of us not having hotfixes the way you mentioned, but from a big picture perspective it's better to have 2 versions out in the field rather than a whole chaotic mishmash of versions I don't disagree...but why can't ED release these fixes onto stable - there'd be only 2 versions...and changes to .miz/.cmp files wouldn't in anyway introduce bugs/changes to the game itself. If you've got 2 versions: Stable & Open Beta there's no golden rule that Stable has to equal the previous Open beta is there? Its quite possible for ED to release a newer version of Stable with a subset of the Open Beta ffixes without any negative impact on version control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 20, 2020 Author ED Team Share Posted March 20, 2020 I don't disagree...but why can't ED release these fixes onto stable - there'd be only 2 versions...and changes to .miz/.cmp files wouldn't in anyway introduce bugs/changes to the game itself. If you've got 2 versions: Stable & Open Beta there's no golden rule that Stable has to equal the previous Open beta is there? Its quite possible for ED to release a newer version of Stable with a subset of the Open Beta ffixes without any negative impact on version control I am sorry our update system does not work that way. We update and test in public open beta, once we are happy we will update stable. With 2.5.6 we have had some issues and it is best not to push them to the stable build. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velosocuba Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 It is fixed thanks no it isnt fixed, ive just played in Apenwolfs cold war server and the scoreboard was crazy, i shot down 2 planes and got killed twice and it didnt apeared like that nor the points were registered. Havent tried other server yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Not encouraging. For me, the performance did seem better. Have not done any F/S comparisons, though, so by feel only. But still. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 With me it's 4.9GB... It depends on what you've got installed. Mine was about 4.2 gigs IIRC. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbirder Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I am sorry our update system does not work that way. We update and test in public open beta, once we are happy we will update stable. With 2.5.6 we have had some issues and it is best not to push them to the stable build. Well obviously - but the question as to why 3rd party changes to .miz/.cmp files, new documentation etc couldn't be bundled into a new Stable Release Version, whilst you're working on the issues to the 2.5.6 Core remains... Your release schedule doesn't currently work like that...why can't it work like that in the future? Historically your release schedule to stable has lagged only a short way behind changes to open beta...if that process can be changed to reflect current difficulties ...why can't the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) I don't disagree...but why can't ED release these fixes onto stable - there'd be only 2 versions...and changes to .miz/.cmp files wouldn't in anyway introduce bugs/changes to the game itself. Because they are 2 different versions, the fixes are available for 2.5.6 might not work with 2.5.5 stable. They are released to the open beta first as it's designed purpose is for large scale public testing, the point of stable is to well, be stable and not have untested (by the public at large) roaming around. Once open beta gets to a state where stuff is working more-or-less how it should, then stable gets an update. Key-phrase: More or less, stable isn't bug free or feature complete, but the features that have been tested and passed on open beta make it over promptly. I'm guessing the reason why we can't go around mixing and matching versions with the same fix is that they might not work on 2.5.5, given that they're designed for 2.5.6 - which is somewhat, a different kettle of fish compared to the current stable build. That's why they're put out into the open beta, so said fixes can be tested and verified by the public at large - at least that's its intended purpose. Regardless, 2.5.6 has caused some unprecedented issues and until they get resolved I'm not expecting a stable update. I'd much rather all resources, where applicable, go to sorting 2.5.6 out before touching stable. Once 2.5.6 is better behaved, then I'll expect a big stable update. For a disclaimer, I exclusively play stable, so I know the patience required, but that's all there is to it, patience. My hardware isn't really suited to testing beyond small things (I mean, I don't even have a throttle or a rudder), and I seem to get better performance on stable than open beta. Edited March 20, 2020 by Northstar98 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbirder Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Because they are 2 different versions, the fixes are available for 2.5.6 might not work with 2.5.5 stable. Really? EG: New User Manual wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: Removed unused units and replaced them with static models wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: English and German Documentation added wouldn't work in 2.5.5? Etc etc There is no reason they and many others couldn't be added into stable other than inertia.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Compression. Something that is completely unknown for files hosted on a http download. Patch notes looking good though. Sitting in a 3rd world country waiting for the download Hope the performance gets better again Is it absolutely necessary to get the updated Night Lighting/Super Carrier module etc working before that huge chunk of your user base gets some simple DLC fixes? I wish you Stable drivers could just get the latest 255 version meanwhile... Of course you could always switch to that one manually... but not everyone does that. Sadly, the patch has made no difference to the poor VR performance introduced by 2.5.6 that is being experienced by a lof of - not all - people. Doesn't sound too optimistic, but I'll see myself Nick Grey, 1 month ago: We run approx 4.7 Mio lines of code which is only ten times less than Windows OS and with a DCS core programming staff of only 23 guys, we are hundreds of times fewer proportionally than the Windows team at Microsoft. He forgot the most important thing when comparing DCS to a certain constant early access product by MS that shall not be named (1.15)™. "We have a thousand times less bugs than them!" That latest iteration is literally the worst POS (S for Software :P) I've ever seen in my life, except for Discord maybe. ED are doing a MASSIVE job here. But I agree they should communicate better especially in regards to what the community makes out of DCS since this is literally what it takes to make DCSMP what it is. Even though just an extremely small pertrillionage of the customer base even remotely understands what can all be done with the scripting engine, their work is something the whole MP community relies on. Changing the API silently is not what a gentleman does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 20, 2020 Author ED Team Share Posted March 20, 2020 no it isnt fixed, ive just played in Apenwolfs cold war server and the scoreboard was crazy, i shot down 2 planes and got killed twice and it didnt apeared like that nor the points were registered. Havent tried other server yet. Make sure the server is updated to the latest version. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 20, 2020 Author ED Team Share Posted March 20, 2020 Really? EG: New User Manual wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: Removed unused units and replaced them with static models wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: English and German Documentation added wouldn't work in 2.5.5? Etc etc There is no reason they and many others couldn't be added into stable other than inertia.... Again Our update system does not work like that. our builds have version numbers, not individual file updates, they are done in whole as large updates. managing individual file updates for each build would not work for us, the amount of code and data is to massive. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0414 Wee Neal Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 My performance improved considerably with this patch. Hardly any stutters now. Desktop PC: Intel i7 14700K, MSI Z790 MAG Tomahawk MOBO, 64Gb RAM , GPU Nvidia RTX 3080ti Windows 11, VPC joystick, Crosswind rudder peddles, HP Reverb G2, VPC Collective, DOF Reality H2, Gametrix seat, WinWing panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
despinoza Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 My performance improved considerably with this patch. Hardly any stutters now. Still downloading. Please don`t be a placebo Ryzen 3700x - 2080ti - 16GB 3200 - 500G SSD - OCULUS RIFT S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintifaxl Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 The Anton getting the F-8 and G-8 variants in 2020 or later? Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Well obviously - but the question as to why 3rd party changes to .miz/.cmp files, new documentation etc couldn't be bundled into a new Stable Release Version, whilst you're working on the issues to the 2.5.6 Core remains... Your release schedule doesn't currently work like that...why can't it work like that in the future? Historically your release schedule to stable has lagged only a short way behind changes to open beta...if that process can be changed to reflect current difficulties ...why can't the other?The issue as I see it is that you now have an additional branch of development to manage. Stable plus some changes and stable and more changes. Both need regression testing and inevitably slows down the development process. I can see it is frustrating waiting for new things that should work fine in stable but by its very nature adds risk to the stability of the stable version which when said in those terms is simply not viable. In the scheme of things this isn't like a mobile banking app upgrade going horribly wrong with no previous version to use instead. AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 missing in patch-notes, afaik, but I really like the new AIM-9M icon in rearm-window! :) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) Really? EG: New User Manual wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: Removed unused units and replaced them with static models wouldn't work in 2.5.5? EG: English and German Documentation added wouldn't work in 2.5.5? Etc etc There is no reason they and many others couldn't be added into stable other than inertia.... Sure we can move goalposts and cherry pick to the mother of all basic updates, one that doesn't involve base game at all :doh: But as you mentioned, is documentation really the users of stable really missing? Will all the people complaining about no stable update for 3 months really shut their yaps if they got given a new user manual? Probably not but last time I checked it seemed to be mostly the JF-17 among other things - that probably won't be compatible, as they've been upgraded (AFAIK) to work of 2.5.6 new graphics. Like it or not stable and OB are 2 different development branches and represent 2 different things obeying 2 slightly different rules. A fix for one might not work with the other - I also love how you completely ignored the fact that all these fixes are on the OB for testing purposes and once they get fully tested and ED is satisfied they can make a stable build, then stable gets updated Edited March 20, 2020 by Northstar98 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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