HP Reverb G2 Announced - next Gen

[zildac]

2 minutes ago, whitav8 said:

As far as fpsVR detecting the resolution, it actually causes a "pause" for a second or two in rendering and reads the raw resolution from the headset. It doesn't just query SteamVR but accounts for ALL multipliers including the game/app itself (PD = 1.4 for example in DCS World as well as SteamVR at 80% ). I have utilized it a lot when trying my G1 and then my G2 since I had to try to make very careful measurements to compare clarity - lack of any blurriness when looking at instrument panels with a fixed gaze (example: in Aerofly FS2 with the center of focus on the 777 PFD and then trying to read the MFD/NAV display just adjacent to the right from the left seat at the eye reference position) while using the exact same pixel resolution at the headset. By the way, for my lens prescription and face size, (IPD=64.5),etc..., I have decided to return the G2. It was a very difficult choice because I like the new cable and audio but clarity off center was the deciding factor.

Agreed, the off centre clarity is less than ideal. 

[whitav8]

@zildac , @dburne, and @imacken,

       Thanks for confirmation that I wasn't just missing something about testing the G1 and G2. It's a pretty big step to return the G2 after waiting six months for it to arrive. Your comments give me confidence.

 

Thanks

 

Dave W.

 

[Krupi]

I heard that HP have confirmed that 100% on Steam VR is not a bug?

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Krupi said:

I heard that HP have confirmed that 100% on Steam VR is not a bug?

 

I have heard that a couple of places but I have yet to see a link to official word from HP stating this.

[imacken]

I don’t believe that it’s not a bug. G1 is correct for native res at 100%. Why would G2 have twice native res at 100%?

 Makes no sense. 

[dburne]

24 minutes ago, imacken said:

I don’t believe that it’s not a bug. G1 is correct for native res at 100%. Why would G2 have twice native res at 100%?

 Makes no sense. 

 

Yeah that is my line of thinking also.

[Krupi]

Thoughts on this, 1:33 mark...

Edited December 7, 2020 by Krupi

[speed-of-heat]

Let me see if i understood the Video correctly (i am still awaiting a shipping order on my G2 from Bestware ... grrrrr)  

 

both G1 and G2 have the same native physical resolution, 2160x2160 per eye), the SS set for the G1 at 100% gives that close to the native physical resolution, the G2 100% gives it at 3024x3024 (ish) per eye, and this is intended by design, you still can run it at native resolution if you want, but you will loose some clarity as a result... the frame buffering is interesting as it will have quite a big impact on bluring...

 

I suspect the challenge that everyone is getting hung up on is 100% is not the same between G1 and G2, if it had been called "default" i suspect it would have been clearer, but we have 100%...

[imacken]

I'm struggling with this.

1) it doesn't actually matter what we call a certain set of pixels. If 3000x3000 is 100% or 300%, it doesn't matter. It's just a reference point. But, we need consistency.

2) if, as Sebastian and others have said, the 100% level is correct to take distortion into account and it is not a bug, then fine. However, that would mean that it is a bug with the G1, which shows native res at 100% (approximately).

3) there is no doubt in my mind that I am seeing similar performance at 50% on G2 as 100% on G1.

4) what is needed is consistency, as users will come from the G1, set to 100% and wonder why their performance has degraded so much.

Although it's just labels, it would make sense to have consistency here.

FWIW, I still believe that SteamVR will change to 100% for native. We have seen this same issue with other headsets at launch, including the G1, and they have been 'fixed' fairly soon afer.

[speed-of-heat]

yeah im not sure i understand it either, and i suspect you are "right" re the first part of 2), im not sure that implies that the G1 resolution is bugged, but either way it doesnt matter, what Sebastian is saying is "thats what HP designed it at"... i think ! 

[imacken]

I think it does mean the G1 is bugged if we are to believe that the 100% G2 pixel count is correct.  One must be correct, and the other must be bugged! 

The distortion factor must be very similar in both lenses, so either we call both 2160 lenses 100% without distortion or 100% with distortion.

[speed-of-heat]

the G2's Pixel count is correct at 2160x2160 physical , the thing that caught my attention more than anything was the "frame buffer", that Sebastian mentioned which (again guess work applies) from the way he was talking about it was a non-displayed rendered area, to enable you to turn your head quickly ...  which the G1 did not have/do (which might be driver or hardware related or both) 

[imacken]

Yep, the frame buffer thing was interesting, but it's not really clear what that is, or how it affects reported resolution.

All I know, is that G2 100% is not at all equivalent to the performance seen on the G1 at 100%.  From a user POV, this needs to be clarified.  Not everyone messes around with pixel counts and percentages like we all do!

[speed-of-heat]

agreed!

[Krupi]

I have no idea if this is correct, however it ties up with what the HP Engineer told MRTV... 

 

 

[imacken]

So, discussions about what is 100% aside for the moment, the implication in that video (and others I've seen in the past) is that below the stated SteaamVR 100% res of (approx) 3000x3000, we are looking at distorted images in the G2.

Has anyone actually noticed this?  In practical terms, is this really a thing? In the 5 or 6 HMDs I've owned, I can say I have ever noticed.  

[zildac]

24 minutes ago, imacken said:

So, discussions about what is 100% aside for the moment, the implication in that video (and others I've seen in the past) is that below the stated SteaamVR 100% res of (approx) 3000x3000, we are looking at distorted images in the G2.

Has anyone actually noticed this?  In practical terms, is this really a thing? In the 5 or 6 HMDs I've owned, I can say I have ever noticed.  

Yup, running mine at 54% (thinking this waa 4% over native'ish and was correct) the edge blur and general quality was not great. 100% looks far better but of course has a big impact on performance.

Edited December 8, 2020 by zildac

[some1]

In VR, we're always looking at distorted images. The image put on the screen is so heavily deformed, that any discussion about the native resolution is moot. Basically every pixel is resized and moved from where the game engine put it. I don't have G2 yet, but even with G1, pushing Steam resolution slider waay above 100% greatly improves image quality. 

 

Here's what typically a VR screen is showing. This is not "though the lens" view, but a representation of actual screen output. 

 

 

 

[imacken]

7 minutes ago, zildac said:

Yup, running mine at 54% (thinking this a 4% over native'ish and was correct) the edge blur and general quality was not great. 100% looks far better but of course has a big impact on performance.

So, being picky, it's 48% that is closest to native, but of course you're going to see an improvement at 100% as your are doubling the rendered pixels.  However, that is the same no matter what the specified percentage is, e.g. going from 100% to 200%.  It's all about what your hardware can take, but that's not really what we are discussing here.

1 minute ago, some1 said:

In VR, we're always looking at distorted images. The image put on the screen is so heavily deformed, that any discussion about the native resolution is moot. Basically every pixel is resized and moved from where the game engine put it. I don't have G2 yet, but even with G1, pushing Steam resolution slider waay above 100% greatly improves image quality. 

 

 

Of course, but that is not the point of discussion here.  It's about what is the reference point and why the G1 is 'native' at 100%, and the G2 is at approx. 50%. That's all.

[zildac]

5 minutes ago, imacken said:

So, being picky, it's 48% that is closest to native, but of course you're going to see an improvement at 100% as your are doubling the rendered pixels.  However, that is the same no matter what the specified percentage is, e.g. going from 100% to 200%.  It's all about what your hardware can take, but that's not really what we are discussing here.

Well it's exactly what we are discussing (unless I'm missing the point). Quite simply as explained in the link provided Krupi none of the previous headsets native resolution = 100% in steamVR.  Just to clear this up 100% IS the resolution HP intended you to see the image at, forget about the native res of the panel... you watched the video too based on your previous reply, so what is your point? 48% is UNDER native resolution so obviously will look worse. If you're going to run at 48-50 or anything under 100% why bother with a headset with a pair of 2160 panels? I think you mentioned in another post somewhere you had a G1? If so what is the SteamVR res of the G1 at 100%?

7 minutes ago, imacken said:

So, being picky, it's 48% that is closest to native, but of course you're going to see an improvement at 100% as your are doubling the rendered pixels.  However, that is the same no matter what the specified percentage is, e.g. going from 100% to 200%.  It's all about what your hardware can take, but that's not really what we are discussing here.

Of course, but that is not the point of discussion here.  It's about what is the reference point and why the G1 is 'native' at 100%, and the G2 is at approx. 50%. That's all.

I don't have a G1, so are we absoloutely sure that at 100% SteamVR slider setting with a G1 the native panel res is set?

Edited December 8, 2020 by zildac

[imacken]

1 minute ago, zildac said:

Well it's exactly what we are discussing (unless I'm missing the point). Quite simply as explained in the link provided Krupi none of the previous headsets native resolution = 100% in steamVR.  Just to clear this up 100% IS the resolution HP intended you to see the image at, forget about the native res of the panel... you watched the video too based on your previous reply, so what is your point? 48% is UNDER native resolution so obviously will look worse. If you're going to run at 48-50 or anything under 100% why bother with a headset with a pair 2160 panels?

I feel this discussion has lost its way, however...

You are missing the point.  That video didn't add anything to the discussion, and it is wtrong to say that no previous headsets native is 100% in SteamVR.  He conveniently didn't list the G1 on his video.  Let me repeat, G1 has a SteamVR native res value of 100%.  The G2 doesn't.  Now, if one is correct, then the other is wrong, or at least leads to confusion for a lot of users.

Re your calcs, they are not correct either if we are being picky.  48% is 2196x2144, i.e. 4.71m pixels. Native is 4.665m. So, 48% is higher, not lower as you suggest, and is the closest on the slider to native.

With regard to your final comment, I run at 100%, but most people here are running at around 50% in the (apparently) mistaken belief that runs their G2 at native res.  Also, there are people who run at 100% (thinking that it would be the same as the G1 scale) and wonder why their performace is suffering.

[zildac]

Well perhaps the G1 was a special case? Don't know never had one. I think the video did a good job of clearing up why 100% doesn't = the native panel res (except for the G1 based on your comment). Apologies, 48% is under the physical panel native, but it seems that for all other headsets "native", 100% or whatever you want to call it ISN'T the res at which the device was designed to be viewed at, which ultimately has an effect on the image quality and of course performance.

[imacken]

Agreed, but no one is disputing the whole barrel distortion thing in theory. In practice, I have always wondered how we actually see this, if at all, but that's another thing altogether.

The main discussion here is, why is the G1 'native' at 100% and the G2 at 48%.

[some1]

17 minutes ago, imacken said:

Let me repeat, G1 has a SteamVR native res value of 100%.  The G2 doesn't.  Now, if one is correct, then the other is wrong, or at least leads to confusion for a lot of users.

 

For Reverb G1, Steam VR at 100% has a resolution of 2208x2164 per eye, which isn't native either. It also defaults to 150%, which is 2704x2652.

 

They simply changed what is considered "default" and "100%". Neither is wrong. 

 

[zildac]

Does the 4th pinned comment in Karls video answer your G1 query?