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How about a post July 1944 version?


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10 hours ago, felixx75 said:

If this is the case of this particular version of the A8, then don't blame ED for it, but Focke Wulf. ED told us, what version we will get.

 

There were multiple variants of the A8, hence the title of the thread.

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Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt,

Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert.

 

Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh,

Der Jägerei ein Horrido!

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Fw 190A-8 didn‘t get MW-50 as mentioned already, but had its engine altered mid 1944 to 1.58 / 1.65 ata manifold pressure.

C3 fuel injection for fighters wasn‘t used together with it.

For fighter-bombers it was C3 injection AND higher manifold pressure. 

Details can be seen here:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/Fw_190_A-8_15-3-44.pdf

 

The higher manifold pressure is missing for anything after July 1944. We have an A-7 with an extra fuel tank right now.


Edited by JHAT
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2 hours ago, JHAT said:

The Fw 190A-8 didn‘t get MW-50 as mentioned already, but had its engine altered mid 1944 to 1.58 / 1.65 ata manifold pressure.

C3 fuel injection for fighters wasn‘t used together with it.

For fighter-bombers it was C3 injection AND higher manifold pressure. 

Details can be seen here:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/Fw_190_A-8_15-3-44.pdf

 

The higher manifold pressure is missing for anything after July 1944. We have an A-7 with an extra fuel tank right now.

 

 

This article nicely sums up the tests done by Rechlin and FW and the later modifications or changes to the model:

https://www.spruemaster.com/wp-content/gallery/manual/FW190A8.pdf

 

But it is like you said. The F8 got C3 injection or higher manifold pressure, but only for Bodenladebetrieb up to altitudes of 1000m. The A8 got the higher manifold pressure without C3 but for Boden- & Höhenlader so for all altitudes. The changes to mass production were done in July 44 and the already operational older A8 were modified in the field.

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Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt,

Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert.

 

Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh,

Der Jägerei ein Horrido!

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  • 3 months later...

This would be really nice to have and also a must-have feature to call the A8 complete. Not sure what we can do to make ED consider developing this though. I guess this variant wouldnt be too much work to implement. If it takes crowd-funding to get this I'm ready to chip in.

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Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt,

Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert.

 

Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh,

Der Jägerei ein Horrido!

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On 3/7/2021 at 10:11 PM, felixx75 said:

If this is the case of this particular version of the A8, then don't blame ED for it, but Focke Wulf. ED told us, what version we will get.


Hmm, not sure I go with this…

 

I’n pretty sure that Allied pilots held the 190 in very high respect as a deadly adversary… we are not talking about one of WW2’s “dud” aircraft here.

 

But in DCS it is totally outclassed in any sortie where there is Allied fighter opposition - and we aren’t talking about RL settings where the benefits of US production numbers, pilot training and tactics tip the balance 😕

 

I only fly SP, so the problem is as much with the AI physics / FM and SA as it is with particular Anton deficiencies 

 

The Anton is my go to hack / GA aircraft if I want to explore a map area or just want to get some flight hours logged. It’s also a lot of fun as a Jabo, but homebrew missions that omit airborne opposition are the best bet

 

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1 hour ago, rkk01 said:


Hmm, not sure I go with this…

 

I’n pretty sure that Allied pilots held the 190 in very high respect as a deadly adversary… we are not talking about one of WW2’s “dud” aircraft here.

 

But in DCS it is totally outclassed in any sortie where there is Allied fighter opposition - and we aren’t talking about RL settings where the benefits of US production numbers, pilot training and tactics tip the balance 😕

 

I only fly SP, so the problem is as much with the AI physics / FM and SA as it is with particular Anton deficiencies 

 

The Anton is my go to hack / GA aircraft if I want to explore a map area or just want to get some flight hours logged. It’s also a lot of fun as a Jabo, but homebrew missions that omit airborne opposition are the best bet

 

 

Because at this point in the war the Allied planes were simply much better than the Germans on all fronts. The Anton peaked in '43 and BMW simply couldn't get the 801F going so FW switched to the Jumo to make the Dora. The issue is this A8 is a late 43/Early44 spec while all the Allied planes are late 44/early 45 models.

 

It is expected that the A8 should be at a disadvantage, but it shouldn't be this severe given it should have EN Boost.

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7 hours ago, MrExplosion said:

This would be really nice to have and also a must-have feature to call the A8 complete. Not sure what we can do to make ED consider developing this though. I guess this variant wouldnt be too much work to implement. If it takes crowd-funding to get this I'm ready to chip in.

Same here.. but ED must introduce it one way or another. This version is quite 'incomplete'.. looks like it has been rushed out 🙂

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7 hours ago, EnvyC said:

 

Because at this point in the war the Allied planes were simply much better than the Germans on all fronts. The Anton peaked in '43 and BMW simply couldn't get the 801F going so FW switched to the Jumo to make the Dora. The issue is this A8 is a late 43/Early44 spec while all the Allied planes are late 44/early 45 models.

 

It is expected that the A8 should be at a disadvantage, but it shouldn't be this severe given it should have EN Boost.

 

🤔

I agree with the last paragraph… but not sure about the general thrust of your post.

 

Yes, the P51, P47 and Spit IX were good aircraft. Numbers and thorough pilot training were also on the Allies side, but well flown 109s and 190s could still be lethal. 
(in DCS our main problem is the AI enemy…)

 

Also, not entirely convinced by your timeline for claiming that the Allied aircraft simply outclassed:

at this point in the war the Allied planes were simply much better than the Germans on all fronts

simply reads as a sweeping generalisation.

 

Wiki might not be the most reliable source (my German is not good enough for primary source material😕), but suggests the A8 entered production in Feb 44.  The Jumo power plant had also been a longer game, with the first 190D prototype flying in 1942… and don’t forget, the 109K and and 262 would probably be pushing back on the simply much better than the Germans on all fronts… 😉

 

 On the other side, the Spit IX wasn’t exactly a late 44 / early 45 aircraft, having first entered service in 1942 (!!!).  There’s real experts on the complexity of the Spitfire model history on here, but I’d guess that the Merlin 66 LF Mk IX in DCS is probably an early 44 model?? (so a contemporary of the A8)


no idea on the Mustang and Jug variants in the game… based on the frequent complaints about lack of comparable versions to the K4 and D9, and lack of 150 octane fuel, I suppose they must also be 44ish versions??

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree, this Anton is not feature complete. The ATA is not right, the speeds are not correct for associated altitudes and manifold pressures. This plane is not right and needs corrected. It's not hard to do some simple research to figure this out. 

Further more don't get it twisted. At 1.42 ata it should be capable of hitting 550kmh at sea level, 580kmh at 1.5km. The higher 1.58, and 1.65 ata made it even faster at these altitudes for 10 minutes at a time. 


Edited by Gentoo87
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I climbed A-8 to 1.5km and fire wall the throttle i got to 520 kph ias which is about 575 tas which is about the same as charts shows, 50kph difference looks way too much, you must doing something wrong.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190-a8-level-speed-13nov43.jpg

 


Edited by grafspee
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On 7/13/2021 at 12:33 AM, grafspee said:

I climbed A-8 to 1.5km and fire wall the throttle i got to 520 kph ias which is about 575 tas which is about the same as charts shows, 50kph difference looks way too much, you must doing something wrong.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190-a8-level-speed-13nov43.jpg

 

 

The chart is measured from the reference aircraft indicated airspeed... not TAS. No aircraft datasheet measures in speed across the ground. So I did nothing wrong. Nice try though ;)

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15 minutes ago, Gentoo87 said:

The chart is measured from the reference aircraft indicated airspeed... not TAS. No aircraft datasheet measures in speed across the ground. So I did nothing wrong. Nice try though 😉

TAS is not a ground speed, All speed charts are measured in TAS speed.

From this chart A-8 get up to 650 kph at 6000m if it was indicated TAS would be around 850 kph but the true is that at 6000 indicated speed would show something around 440 kph.

 

 


Edited by grafspee

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6 minutes ago, grafspee said:

TAS is not a ground speed, All speed charts are measured in TAS speed.

From this chart A-8 get up to 650 kph at 6000m if it was indicated TAS would be around 850 kph but the true is that at 6000 indicated speed would show something around 440 kph.

 

 

 

Gotta give you this one after doing some further research...

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21 minutes ago, rkk01 said:


The charts still show a deficiency in performance*…

 

* based on my read of them and simplified maths

Because this is not chart which A-8 was based off.  DCS A-8 is based off 540kph SL top speed.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/Fw_190_A8_733705_Rep2.pdf

Remember to set standard atm at your test mission. 15C 1013.25 hPa / 29.92 inchHg / 760 mmHg very important.

 


Edited by grafspee

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Will refly with those met parameters

 

… but I still don’t see that we are getting 540 at sea level?

 

For me this isn’t about “winning an internet argument” - I’m an Engineer in my day job (not aeronautical…!) and want to better understand the performance and modelling 

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37 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

Will refly with those met parameters

 

… but I still don’t see that we are getting 540 at sea level?

 

For me this isn’t about “winning an internet argument” - I’m an Engineer in my day job (not aeronautical…!) and want to better understand the performance and modelling 

I got to 538 kph, i think your testing need some improvement. It is very hard to fly perfect level for 5 min to get this speed. 

Are you sure that you are flying w/o center line pylon ??

hA0DmPF.jpeg


Edited by grafspee

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On 7/14/2021 at 3:33 AM, grafspee said:

I got to 538 kph, i think your testing need some improvement. It is very hard to fly perfect level for 5 min to get this speed. 

Are you sure that you are flying w/o center line pylon ??

hA0DmPF.jpeg

 


That is not TAS, that is indicated air speed on the dash from the pitot tube... as much as I wanted to believe this plane was faster. If you go to the F2 view, and cycle the speed metrics to TAS(which is what speed charts are measured by). This plane slightly under performs on the deck maybe by 5 kts, but hits at least during my test 596KMH at 1.5 km.

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6 minutes ago, Gentoo87 said:


That is not TAS, that is indicated air speed on the dash from the pitot tube... as much as I wanted to believe this plane was faster. If you go to the F2 view, and cycle the speed metrics to TAS(which is what speed charts are measured by). This plane slightly under performs on the deck maybe by 5 kts, but hits at least during my test 596KMH at 1.5 km.

I know that. I want to show that i can hit almost 540 at 350m indicated, i would hit 540 easy at SL

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On 7/19/2021 at 9:53 AM, grafspee said:

I know that. I want to show that i can hit almost 540 at 350m indicated, i would hit 540 easy at SL

I'm sorry Graff I thought some one else posted that. You have spun my head around about how to read this stuff. I found at sea level shes fine, keeping on the hush hush at 1.5 she's over performing by about 10 kts lol I got 596kmh at 1.5 level flight.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don’t see why we can’t have early/late Anton variants like the P-47D30 has.

 

Another thing that will make A-8 a better fighter is the ability to remove the outboard guns. They are great against bombers but an overkill against fighters for the performance hit you get (based on other sims, so pinch of salt).

 

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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