How's classified is this Eurofighter ?

[Bogey Jammer]

What systems we should not see in this future DCS module ?

[ESA_maligno]

What about the state secrets of the countries that fly the C16 (Typhoon) ???; It is a development authorized by all those States ???; what degree of realism will it have ???

[TrueGrit2]

What about the state secrets of the countries that fly the C16 (Typhoon) ???; It is a development authorized by all those States ???; what degree of realism will it have ???

 

The Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH is comprised of all 4 Eurofighter core-nations and the Copyright licence lies with them. So, we are good for all the states.

[rrohde]

I assume (and hope) that TrueGrit is developing the "military-grade" sim for Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH and their stakeholders, and we - the DCS community - are getting the declassified consumer version when the time comes.

 

Usually those cases are promising a high level of fidelity for both ASM and PFM modeling for us mere mortals. :thumbup:

[QuiGon]

Some more info on the Eurofighter company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_GmbH

[Pyro_]

The professional SIMs aren't 100% realistic, even parts of RADAR or missile are secret, and the changes applied in real airplane, it isn't applied in the sims.

 

However, the planes are planes, the aerodinamics, engines,... they work like others (more powerful or efficient),

 

Maybe the worst problem is put the aerodinamics instability in high g, or corrections in the canards to level and straight fly

[Bogey Jammer]

What about the equipment ?

[Avimimus]

I assume (and hope) that TrueGrit is developing the "military-grade" sim for Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH and their stakeholders, and we - the DCS community - are getting the declassified consumer version when the time comes.

 

Usually those cases are promising a high level of fidelity for both ASM and PFM modeling for us mere mortals. :thumbup:

 

 

I'd be fine with some simplification if it meant more air to ground systems being included (i.e. lower detail allowing leaving out the classified bits)

[TrueGrit2]

 

Maybe the worst problem is put the aerodinamics instability in high g, or corrections in the canards to level and straight fly

 

That is true, but we got two guys with a PHD, taking care of that.

[Aluminum Donkey]

What systems we should not see in this future DCS module ?

 

I'm surprised they'll even let us know what color the paint is :)

 

We'll probably have a simplified, if not outright dumbed-down, representation of how the radar works and how well it performs. Same thing goes for datalink, IFF, and probably how many cupholders it has and whether the factory stereo sounds any good (gotta crank that techno while flying the Eurofighter)

 

As long as the flight model is convincing and it really goes like a bat outta hell, and can supercruise, I'm pretty much good to go. This puppy should be leaps and bounds ahead of anything else in DCS, even the mighty F-15 and/or MiG-29. Nothing should be able to touch it in terms of flight performance because the real Typhoon is supposed to have the thrust-to-weight ratio of a space shuttle on crack.

 

Radar/avionics though? Good luck :)

 

AD

[Tinysnipe]

Well also because of how classified the plane is, and I'm sure there is some information you can't get, so for that classified information would you have to adapt, or what is the plan for that?

[Blaze1]

There's often a misconception about what type of information is classified in the realms of military aviation. The vast majority of the systems are unclassified albeit restricted, while classified systems (confidential and above) are similar to those found in 4th gen fighters, that is to say very few e.g:

 

1) ECM and jammer modes and performance

2) Radar Performance (e.g detection ranges, look down performance, ECCM capabilities and few operational modes)

3) Weapon systems performance (e.g detection ranges, ECCM capabilities, kinematic performance, fuzing, explosive effectiveness and on occasion a few weapon system modes)

[rrohde]

Well also because of how classified the plane is, and I'm sure there is some information you can't get, so for that classified information would you have to adapt, or what is the plan for that?

 

"If you can't simulate, approximate" :thumbup:

[VirusAM]

There's often a misconception about what type of information is classified in the realms of military aviation. The vast majority of the systems are unclassified albeit restricted, while classified systems (confidential and above) are similar to those found in 4th gen fighters, that is to say very few e.g:

 

1) ECM and jammer modes and performance

2) Radar Performance (e.g detection ranges, look down performance, ECCM capabilities and few operational modes)

3) Weapon systems performance (e.g detection ranges, ECCM capabilities, kinematic performance, fuzing, explosive effectiveness and on occasion a few weapon system modes)

 

 

 

That’s exactly so...and in these cases some educated guesses (and adjustments from real life) can do the trick

[Hummingbird]

As long as it flies like the real thing (within the realm of possibility for a flight sim) I'm satisfied.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Hummingbird

[Kirk66]

The professional SIMs aren't 100% realistic, even parts of RADAR or missile are secret, and the changes applied in real airplane, it isn't applied in the sims.

 

However, the planes are planes, the aerodinamics, engines,... they work like others (more powerful or efficient),

 

Maybe the worst problem is put the aerodinamics instability in high g, or corrections in the canards to level and straight fly

Not usually true in military sims, the whole point is to be able to use the gucci stuff in a sim before trying to use it for real.

 

Most fighter sims are classified at the same level as the jets.

 

Vulture

[Wizard_03]

As long as it flies like the real thing (within the realm of possibility for a flight sim) I'm satisfied.

 

Same and the more I learn about the typhoon the more impressive it seems

[Hummingbird]

Same and the more I learn about the typhoon the more impressive it seems

 

Yep, supposedly the only NATO fighter able to hold its own against the F-22 post merge. (Although the Rafale has managed to beat it too)

[QuiGon]

There's often a misconception about what type of information is classified in the realms of military aviation. The vast majority of the systems are unclassified albeit restricted, while classified systems (confidential and above) are similar to those found in 4th gen fighters, that is to say very few e.g:

 

1) ECM and jammer modes and performance

2) Radar Performance (e.g detection ranges, look down performance, ECCM capabilities and few operational modes)

3) Weapon systems performance (e.g detection ranges, ECCM capabilities, kinematic performance, fuzing, explosive effectiveness and on occasion a few weapon system modes)

True, but for DCS classified and restricted information means the same, as information has to be public so it can be used for DCS.

[Blaze1]

True, but for DCS classified and restricted information means the same, as information has to be public so it can be used for DCS.

I don't believe that's the full picture QuiGon. My impression (based on comments from Eagle if I recall correctly) is that they've built a relationship with some military establishments as well as aerospace and defence companies and these organisations have provided them access to unclassified albeit restricted data, data that isn't public domain.

[VirusAM]

I don't believe that's the full picture QuiGon. My impression (based on comments from Eagle if I recall correctly) is that they've built a relationship with some military establishments as well as aerospace and defence companies and these organisations have provided them access to unclassified albeit restricted data, data that isn't public domain.

 

 

 

Restricted is a classification.....

In the nato world the only public information is the one released with this classification: “Nato unclassified releasable to public “

Also nato unclassified is not meant for the public, but it means that the operator can see/use the information on unclassified instruments (pc for example)

[Kev2go]

Restricted is a classification.....

In the nato world the only public information is the one released with this classification: “Nato unclassified releasable to public “

Also nato unclassified is not meant for the public, but it means that the operator can see/use the information on unclassified instruments (pc for example)

 

 

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=267626

 

All of the EF manuals are "restricted" with the exception of the EF flight manual confidential supplement ( tactics , EW and exact weapons envelopes i suspect) which is classified confidential the only one that a civilian development are probably not be allowed to get thier hands on.

 

IF this as considered a true classification level rather than an mere ITAR type restriction as seen on US manuals, then the development team wouldn't have access to anything classified, an thus not be able to have the necessary information to model the EF in any shape or form.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Kev2go

[VirusAM]

How's classified is this Eurofighter ?

 

contrary to what you say.

 

 

What Tranche/Nationality can we expect?

 

We are in constant communication with the “NETMA” and our licensor “Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH” in order to bring you the most current version of the Eurofighter possible, without violating classified information. I know a lot of you are eager to get information on the version we are bringing to DCS. I am sorry, that at this stage we won't be able to answer any questions concerning the tranche, software or block. Rest assured that once we can say more, we will!

As you might already have guessed from the published pictures and our company’s German background, we will create a German version of the Eurofighter Typhoon to start out. This version will only make the introduction to DCS as we will continue to bring more and more nationalities and capabilities to you over time.

 

Where do you get the data necessary for programming the Eurofighter Typhoon?

 

We made a huge effort over the past year, to gather all publicly available data and will continue to do so until we are satisfied with the final result.

 

 

 

I don’t understand your post....

I only stated (some) of the existing classification in the NATO and I cannot answer your questions as i am not truekrit member.

 

I will specify better

 

These are some of the NATO classification (nations have their equivalents levels)

 

- NATO unclassified releasable to public

- NATO unclassified

- NATO restricted

- ............ etc

- ............ etc

- ........... etc

 

All documents and data needs to have one of these classification. Only the first one is freely viewable on any source (your phone, computer etc), the other ones need appropriate instruments (computers of the same or higher classification for example) and the people needs to have the relevant security clearance and the need to know in order to access the data.

Restricted is one of these classification as you see.

Having a commercial license with the aircraft company probably the devs will have access to documents that are not public domain but not classified in military terms. Just the company intellectual property and i am pretty sure the devs have signed an NDA.

Of course they won’t have access to classified data, but their boss in an former Eurofighter instructor and he probably knows all of the aircraft (including the classified data) of course he won’t share that, but that will surely help the devs doing all the “educated guesses” needed.

 

Now in a military aircraft much of the data is not classified....classified data are usually related to iff, countermeasures, ecm, weapons and radar ranges and performance etc etc.

All these data can be guessed (educated guess) or deliberately adjusted (if the devs have access to real data) in order to be different from the reality...

 

I think ED did this with the A10C and the FA18/F16 as probably wags has access to real data and also all the SMEs they have know 100% of the needed data....but for very good reasons they changed the one in the sim with similar, but not 100% accurate data.

That’s all...there is no mistery

Edited March 31, 2020 by VirusAM

[Eddie]

Restricted is the first level of classification above "unclassified" (which is also a classification) in the NATO convention, it's equivalent to "For Official Use Only" in the US system and "Official" in the UK system. It's also separate from any export control restrictions such as ITAR/EAR, as security classification always is. The entire Typhoon dataset is "Restricted", and a fair amount of it is subject to US, UK and European export control.

 

Anything the team are using will have to be obtained through licence, which can be provided even if it is "restricted" or otherwise protected. So given their relationship with EF, will be perfectly possible.

[VirusAM]

Restricted is the first level of classification above "unclassified" (which is also a classification) in the NATO convention, it's equivalent to "For Official Use Only" in the US system and "Official" in the UK system. It's also separate from any export control restrictions such as ITAR/EAR, as security classification always is. The entire Typhoon dataset is "Restricted", and a fair amount of it is subject to US, UK and European export control.

 

Anything the team are using will have to be obtained through licence, which can be provided even if it is "restricted" or otherwise protected. So given their relationship with EF, will be perfectly possible.

 

 

 

That’s more or less what i wrote above.