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Air Force hooks on Navy boats in DCS


Raisuli

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:eek: :pain: Yeah, yeah, in 'real life' never going to happen. You known that's not the case in DCS.

 

So, F5E and CVN74. Set it up in my training mission (straight in approach).

 

 

 

First, the F5 flies like a pig (which is what I made the call sign) in that configuration. I never noticed that landing on runways, but when your target is a postage stamp in the ocean it's pretty obvious.

 

 

Second, double the FPS of the F/A-18.

 

 

Third, the moment the hook hits the deck it bounces, and doesn't come back down until after the wires have gone by. Even if I try to T1W (taxi to the 1 wire) it's up and out of the way until the 4 wire is long gone. I'm betting that's expected performance from a hook that's designed to pick up a wire at the end rather than the beginning of a runway. I think the only way to catch a wire is to fly into it, and I'm a long way from that good. Came close once, but not close enough.

 

 

Fourth, the F5's undercarriage doesn't like being slammed into a steel deck. Once or twice it looked usable after the pass, but rolling on the nose wheel with the mains three feet up was probably not good for it. On most of the passes the mains and nose gear were all fouled up after the bolter.

 

 

So I can't report on whether or not the hook is modeled to get ripped off the jet, taking a significant amount of structure along with it. I was hoping to see various large F5 parts sliding down the deck, but no such luck.

 

 

Assuming they get the hook working on the F-16 I'm sure there's going to be no shortage of people who don't understand the basic difference between a hook in the Air Force and a hook in the Navy. All you Air Force jocks are welcome to hunt for that elusive wire. I'm sure videos will be posted when it happens.

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:eek: :pain: Yeah, yeah, in 'real life' never going to happen. You known that's not the case in DCS.

 

So, F5E and CVN74. Set it up in my training mission (straight in approach).

 

 

 

First, the F5 flies like a pig (which is what I made the call sign) in that configuration. I never noticed that landing on runways, but when your target is a postage stamp in the ocean it's pretty obvious.

 

 

Second, double the FPS of the F/A-18.

 

 

Third, the moment the hook hits the deck it bounces, and doesn't come back down until after the wires have gone by. Even if I try to T1W (taxi to the 1 wire) it's up and out of the way until the 4 wire is long gone. I'm betting that's expected performance from a hook that's designed to pick up a wire at the end rather than the beginning of a runway. I think the only way to catch a wire is to fly into it, and I'm a long way from that good. Came close once, but not close enough.

 

 

Fourth, the F5's undercarriage doesn't like being slammed into a steel deck. Once or twice it looked usable after the pass, but rolling on the nose wheel with the mains three feet up was probably not good for it. On most of the passes the mains and nose gear were all fouled up after the bolter.

 

 

So I can't report on whether or not the hook is modeled to get ripped off the jet, taking a significant amount of structure along with it. I was hoping to see various large F5 parts sliding down the deck, but no such luck.

 

 

Assuming they get the hook working on the F-16 I'm sure there's going to be no shortage of people who don't understand the basic difference between a hook in the Air Force and a hook in the Navy. All you Air Force jocks are welcome to hunt for that elusive wire. I'm sure videos will be posted when it happens.

 

The hook might survive, not sure about the landing gear. I don't think the hook on an Eagle skips more then on the Hornet. I've seen them taking the approach end cable a lot more then the departure end. The runout is a lot longer so the hook doesn't take as much force but it looks beefy enough and it might survive a trap or 2. The skill required to bring it down at the right angle then flare just enough not break the gear... The DCS Eagle might handle it if the darn hook worked.:D j/k

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The hook might survive, not sure about the landing gear. I don't think the hook on an Eagle skips more then on the Hornet. I've seen them taking the approach end cable a lot more then the departure end. The runout is a lot longer so the hook doesn't take as much force but it looks beefy enough and it might survive a trap or 2. The skill required to bring it down at the right angle then flare just enough not break the gear... The DCS Eagle might handle it if the darn hook worked.:D j/k

 

 

Heck, I wasn't aware the Air Force ever caught a wire on the approach! Why not put the mains on the ground and let the hook catch on rollout, even if it's the early part? Just curious; I've never talked to anyone who knows much about that end of things. The carriers have IFOLS, and you can fly the ball into the wires. I didn't think the Air Force had an equivalent.

 

 

 

Everything depends on the tension, which is why the Super Hornet is a "Rhino". Set tension for a trapping F-18C and catch an F-18E and it's going for a swim. Do that the other way around and things break.

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Heck, I wasn't aware the Air Force ever caught a wire on the approach! Why not put the mains on the ground and let the hook catch on rollout, even if it's the early part? Just curious; I've never talked to anyone who knows much about that end of things. The carriers have IFOLS, and you can fly the ball into the wires. I didn't think the Air Force had an equivalent.

 

 

 

Everything depends on the tension, which is why the Super Hornet is a "Rhino". Set tension for a trapping F-18C and catch an F-18E and it's going for a swim. Do that the other way around and things break.

 

The cables are not exactly on the threshold ;) 1000 or 2000 feet further down. The pilot has plenty of room to touch down before the cable and doesn't have to fly "on rails".

Now, it also depends on the type of IFE. With some hydraulic issues you might not want to coast down the runway for too long. Especially the old "Rhinos" (F4s) or F111s way back then...

Most fields have also overrun barriers (with webbing stretched between stanchions)

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the F5E was originally made as an export to friends (and later enemies). the hook was intended to slow the jet for emergencies. they have generally smaller runways. grimm reapers has a video of them trying to see how many planes they could land on a carrier. F5E was a frequented attempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook

 

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The cables are not exactly on the threshold ;) 1000 or 2000 feet further down. The pilot has plenty of room to touch down before the cable and doesn't have to fly "on rails".

Now, it also depends on the type of IFE. With some hydraulic issues you might not want to coast down the runway for too long. Especially the old "Rhinos" (F4s) or F111s way back then...

Most fields have also overrun barriers (with webbing stretched between stanchions)

 

 

Very cool stuff. Amazing what you can learn from people around here if you listen. Thanks for the information!

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Back in the 70's and 80's some of the AF barriers were nothing more than a cable attached to two enormous ship anchor type chains laid out in the dirt besides the runway. They needed the extra room because the intent was to use the dragging chains to decelerate the jet. Didn't work so hot, was very prone to unbalanced forces, tending to turn jets sideways, not ending well for the airframe.

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We used to have to taxi over those cables when operating domestic Turkish flights. Often, some of the smaller airports, particularly in the South East were dual Military/Civilian ones.

 

You either had to subract 300m from start end or stop end for performance, which was rarely an issue as most runways there were 3000m.

 

What was fun was taxiing my 737 along and very carefully parking it onto the barrier cable to use as a sort of little chock.

 

You had to be super careful not to run over them at any speed because they'd bounce up and hit the gear doors or fuselage. I believe several Turkish Airlines aircraft had sustained damage in years before.

 

Anyway, normal operation is to raise thrust to 40% N1 to stabilise thrust before allowing the autothrottle to set power with the TO/GA switch.

 

You did this as a rolling take off, but if you were parked against the barrier cable, you just sat there until the thrust came right up and you jumped over it. Closest to fun you could get in a lightly loaded -700 with maybe a touch too much power selected...ahem.

Clevo P775TM1-G laptop with 9900K and RTX2080. Airliner pilot by day and keen simmer on days off.

 

Mark.

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We used to have to taxi over those cables when operating domestic Turkish flights. Often, some of the smaller airports, particularly in the South East were dual Military/Civilian ones.

 

You either had to subract 300m from start end or stop end for performance, which was rarely an issue as most runways there were 3000m.

 

What was fun was taxiing my 737 along and very carefully parking it onto the barrier cable to use as a sort of little chock.

 

You had to be super careful not to run over them at any speed because they'd bounce up and hit the gear doors or fuselage. I believe several Turkish Airlines aircraft had sustained damage in years before.

 

Anyway, normal operation is to raise thrust to 40% N1 to stabilise thrust before allowing the autothrottle to set power with the TO/GA switch.

 

You did this as a rolling take off, but if you were parked against the barrier cable, you just sat there until the thrust came right up and you jumped over it. Closest to fun you could get in a lightly loaded -700 with maybe a touch too much power selected...ahem.

 

USAF's barriers had tiedowns to keep the cables from bouncing and rubber donuts for support.

The tiedowns break off during engagement. The cable would still bounce especially when something the size of C130 touches down directly on the cable.

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