Input lag on MSFFB2

[Aerroc]

Hi everyone, im having a serious problem with the tomcat and my new (but old) stick, microsoft sidewinder force feedback 2. All the commands have a 0.2 or 2 seconds delay, can somebody help me?

 

I already saw other threads talking about it and didnt find any fix for it.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Aerroc

[RustBelt]

I haven't noticed it on mine. Did you verify it was Just in the tomcat?

[Turkey]

Same problem to me, just in Tomcat.

 

And I don't think it is "input lag". When control loading shaking command is outputting, there is some kind of "input jam" blocks all axis and key input. After I unloaded the aircraft everthing backs normal.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Turkey

[fat creason]

I use a MS Sidewinder FFB 2 to develop and test all the FFB effects. I've never seen this input lag issue before but will let you know if I do.

[Aerroc]

Yes! but other people had the same problem on KA-50

[IronMike]

This is a very weird thing and it evades from us being able to put the finger on it. One idea was that maybe the Tomcat's FFB is just that much more than other ac that the FFB device might be running into power issues. One user already tested it with a powered USB hub and for him it made no difference, but if any of you have access to a powered USB hub, please be so kind and try, so we can exclude that. Thank you.

[ViFF]

I have MS SW FF2 (red) and I'm not getting any input delay.

 

I'm using the following settings:

 

In the Special tab of the F-14 enabled the new "Use FFB trim implementation"

 

In the F-14 Pilot controls my FFB settings are "0" for shake and "100" for trimmer force and Swap Axis is enabled.

 

Cheers!

[dave74737]

Input lag on MSFFB2

 

Hello,

Would like to report that I have *exactly* the same issue as OP. MSFFB2, when force feedback is disabled in DCS settings, everything works perfectly. When force feedback is enabled, when there is a force feedback effect of some kind the controls will "bind" and no longer accept new input for a period of 1/2 a second to as long as 2 seconds on any of the axis. The net effect is that the F14 is basically unflyable with FFB enabled.

 

I only see this problem with the F14 module and not any others. I am happy to be a guinea pig if folks want to suggest how we might get to the bottom of this issue.

 

Thanks!

 

Dave.

[sydost]

Hello,

I have this problem too. Today I tried all my installed modules (everything else than F-16 and JF-17) and found out that the problem is present at I-16, Mig-15, F-14 and C-101. Others worked flawlessly. Everything works smoothly when standing still on the runway but when you start to accelerate the lagging starts. With F-14 the lagging is barely noticeable during takeoff run but when you get airborne it is worse. Whenever there is lag it affects all controls (axis, buttons even keyboard). By lagging I mean the controls freezes to present position for a moment and when they unfreeze the controls jump immediately to the position you have moved them during the freeze. Makes flying very difficult. Out of the other modules the I-16 was interesting as the problem stops when speed increases above 270 km/h and starts again when speed is reduced below 270 km/h.

 

I have all my controllers plugged to a powered USB 3.0 hub. I have tried three different USB ports in my computer (MB USB 3.0, MB USB 2.0 and PCIE USB 3.0 card) and there was no difference in the results. Problems stop if I deselect force feedback in DCS.

[walmis]

I think this is related to directinput blocking on ffb send calls. Maybe the update rate is too high and some kind of OS queueing is going on. I'm developing an FFB stick based on stm32 and also experiencing similar problems, first thought maybe this is a usb related firmware problem, then realized probably not. For example I experience input lags on su-25t when landing gear is retracting or when autopilot is engaged on mig-29 and is constantly updating stick center position.

[sydost]

I tried all sorts of things to get rid of these problems. Here are my findings if these can help fixing the problem. I encountered the FFB problems when I was quickly trying modules in 2d during the free for all month and then I started problem solving. In c101 and Mig-15 modules the problems went away when I closed background services for my Pimax headset (piservice, pilauncher etc). Problems with F-14, AJS-37 and I-16 still prevailed though at slightly reduced state. I never really got rid of the problems in these modules in 2d. Then I tried it in VR and quriously I didn’t have any FFB problems when flying in VR. So all is good for me.

 

With F-14 I sometimes had very long pauses where the controller didn’t update the position especially during trimming. The longest pauses were over five seconds long and sometimes caused me to crash if close to ground. With Viggen the pauses usually happen when the stick shaker activates.

 

Also I noticed that the F-14 and Viggen FFB works differently compared to other modules. Couple years ago ED changed the system so that you need to have at least one axis bound to the FFB controller for the FFB to work. In Heatblur modules FFB seems to work even there is no axis bound to the FFB controller. I have no idea does this observation matter. To me it seems that with HB modules the problems seem to be the most persistent.

 

I use a dual MSFFB2 setup and it also seems that having more FFB devices plugged makes the problems worse. If I unplug one of the MSFFB2s I get fewer and shorter pauses.

[Vertigo72]

This may not be particularly useful, as I dont have this problem with my FFB2. I do have something similar; zooming and changing views sometimes take many seconds. I have zoom on a slider on my hotas, and at times, this responds extremely late, even though the rest of the game remains fluid,including head tracking. The same happens when switching between internal and external views (F1/F2). That may take several seconds. The game isnt frozen, framerates are ok and I have full control, it just takes "forever" to switch views. Im not sure I have identified a pattern yet, but it seems to get worse the longer I fly.

 

Ive really only started seeing this on the latest open beta version, and I have only tried the F14 so far; it may be a completely different issue, but it sounds similar enough (and I also happen to have a FFB stick) that I thought it worth mentioning.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Vertigo72

[sydost]

Ive really only started seeing this on the latest open beta version, and I have only tried the F14 so far; it may be a completely different issue, but it sounds similar enough (and I also happen to have a FFB stick) that I thought it worth mentioning.

 

Try turning FFB off from DCS options and see if that cures the problem. If the problem goes away then it is probably FFB related. For me all problems disappeared if FFB was turned off.

Edited June 13, 2020 by sydost

[Vertigo72]

More or less confirmed; I had the delay on zoom and external views again. I unplugged my FFB2 stick and the problem instantly went away. After plugging the stick back in, the issue didnt return (at least not immediately) but there is also no more force on the joystick until you restart the flight, so its not something I can test for long periods.

 

BTW, has that always been the case, if you unplug a force feedback stick and plug it back in, that DCS recognises the stick has been plugged in and it works but there is no force applied to it? Tested this in F14 and TF-51.

[Vertigo72]

Not sure why i said I didnt have this issue, because I do. But its usually not bad enough to be really annoying.

 

Ive done a fair bit of testing and posted that in other thread, but its probably better to keep it all here. First some evidence:

 

 

the top window overlay is from a joystick testing app that shows in real time my joystick position. It is not delayed. You can see sometimes it matches the DCS stick pretty much perfectly, sometimes there is a rather significant delay. Check the end of the video for the best examples. I have encountered worse than that, but not be able to record it.

 

What Ive found so far in my testing:

 

 

- a similar if not identical issue affects zoom and switching views (internal/external), which also sometimes reacts very slow. I have zoom on my hotas throttle and views on the keyboard, so it appears "input" in general is slow, not just the MSFFB joystick.

- It doesnt happen when you stand still. Its only when the plane is moving (taxiing or flying)

- It doesnt happen with Su25 or TF51.

- Im not sure if it happens with the BF109 it really confuses me, It doesnt happen on roll but I think the 109 has a stall prevention thing that delays elevator input past ~50% depending on AoA. See here, again particularly the end:

That makes it really slow sometimes, like 5-10 seconds before I achieve full deflection, but that seems to be a feature, not a bug? Unsure. Never really flown the 109 yet.

- Unplugging my TCWS throttle doesnt make a difference

- Disabling "F14 FFB trim" setting doesnt make a difference

- removing my finger from the grip sensor (disabling FFB), doesnt solve the problem.

 

However:

 

- when I unplug my FFB2 USB connector in flight and plug it back in, once the joystick is detected again, I have no force feedback anymore but also no more delay. That does "solve" the problem. It also solves the sometimes sluggish and stuttering zoom and view switching.

 

I have to conclude the issue is somewhere with the F14 module and the way it handles FFB.

 

To help narrow down why it affects some and not others

- I use steam edition, open beta (can anyone with a FFB2 confirm they do not have this problem with steam+OB?)

- trackir (disabling it doesnt help)

- SRS, no other mods

- very average PC setup (ryzen 2600+, nVidia 1070, 16GB ram, nvme drive). Dont see a difference with this issue when <40 FPS or >120 FPS

Edited June 25, 2020 by Vertigo72

[Vertigo72]

I think I may have found a workaround. Got the idea from kerbal space program forum of all places.

 

I installed vjoy and UCR. Created a new virtual (ffb enabled) joystick with vjoy and then mapped my ffb2 pitch and roll axis on to this new virtual stick using UCR. In DCS I unbound the ffb2 and used the vjoy stick instead. And taadaaa.

 

Its not completely lag free, there may be some ~100ms stutters or delays when going from one extreme position to another, but its much much better and completely a non issue when flying.

 

I only tested this for 10 minutes or so, its not 100% conclusive, but it does seem to solve it or at least dramatically reduce the problem. For whatever weird reason.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Vertigo72

[Aries144]

I just discovered this issue as well. Any updates on possible solutions? The FFB guy at Heatblur doesn't seem to be able to detect the problem on his system.

[MachouPichou]

Hello !

I have the exact same issue on the Viggen. Does anyone solved the problem somehow ?

[Raubritter]

Hi! Try this