IFLOS easier to see/read?

[Ayindi]

I agree with the OP, its also very hard to see for me as well. Sorry guys, if you can see it you may have better eyes, a better setup or whatever. Why are you argueing his opinion? What speaks agains some "popping up overlay window" where you can see the zoomed in IFLOS. Disable it if you dont want or need it...

Edited April 3, 2020 by Ayindi

[randomTOTEN]

I agree with the OP, its also very hard to see for me as well. Sorry guys, if you can see it you may have better eyes, a better setup or whatever.

Do you have an orange meatball as well? It's interesting that we have different colors of the same light, and nobody apparently thinks that's worthy of discussion...

 

 

Why are you argueing his opinion? What speaks agains some "popping up overlay window" where you can see the zoomed in IFLOS. Disable it if you dont want or need it...

 

We were arguing his opinion because for many of us that was clearly not the case. You want a zoomed in view of the IFLOS, and the simulator already supports a zoom function. Why not use that? Seems easier than having to program a 2D pop-up panel. 2D panels are less realistic anyways. The more realistic solution is to zoom.

 

 

 

I still think there's something wrong with his display that needs to be fixed, not by a new feature, but by fixing whatever is causing that problem.

[Steel Jaw]

I still think there's something wrong with his display that needs to be fixed, not by a new feature, but by fixing whatever is causing that problem.

 

Well okay but then what the Foxtrot is it?

[fmedges]

I agree it’s hard to see on my machine also.

[Shimmergloom667]

Am i stupid? On the picture on top i see the ball between the green lines.

 

Nah, I see it too, no probs

[Ayindi]

We were arguing his opinion because for many of us that was clearly not the case. You want a zoomed in view of the IFLOS, and the simulator already supports a zoom function. Why not use that? Seems easier than having to program a 2D pop-up panel. 2D panels are less realistic anyways. The more realistic solution is to zoom.

 

Well if you zoom in your positional awareness is greatly reduced (at least mine) since the FOV is much lower then. I already have a rather hard time to manage everything during an approach. Zooming is an additional reach for my rotary on the throttle (with my left arm which is actually needed to remain on the throttle) while i try to maintain thrust, glide path and so on. As said I think some overlay display would solve all those problems. On a PC flight Sim not everybody has the same equipment or the same possibilities so some "hacks" are necessary to improve the audiences experience. Otherwise they should also remove the AXIS curves for the joysticks, the "special" tap in keybindings and so on. All of these things are "hacks" and "not necessary" if you have the right equipment.

As another example, I sit rather far away from my 3 monitors (so this is also part of the reason why I have problems spotting the ball) since I use a tablemount and a flight chair in DCS. However, I also work and play other games so my monitor setup is geared towards my "normal sitting position" and not the sitting position for DCS. Of course, I could rearrange everything everytime I fly, but thats not realistic, unfortunately. This is another example why there should be some features that make the life for us as chair pilots easier. Setups are different, if you dont need some of such features, disable or dont use it.

Additionally "realistic" is a quite "misleading" term for a PC flight sim in my opinion. Of course, such overlay display IS unrealistic. On the other hand in reality you feel the movement of the plane much better which makes some things "easier". Also you have a much better overall view and depth perception of your surroundings since you dont look "into the world" through a "window" (monitor(s)). Lets disregard VR for the moment which has its own issues...The point I am trying to make is that we are limited to an unrealistic setup anyways which makes our lifes sometimes even harder than in reality. So a helping hand in some cases is not as unrealistic as it may seem on the first sight.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Ayindi

[Larkis]

Well if you zoom in your positional awareness is greatly reduced (at least mine) since the FOV is much lower then. I already have a rather hard time to manage everything during an approach. Zooming is an additional reach for my rotary on the throttle (with my left arm which is actually needed to remain on the throttle) while i try to maintain thrust, glide path and so on. As said I think some overlay display would solve all those problems. On a PC flight Sim not everybody has the same equipment or the same possibilities so some "hacks" are necessary to improve the audiences experience. Otherwise they should also remove the AXIS curves for the joysticks, the "special" tap in keybindings and so on. All of these things are "hacks" and "not necessary" if you have the right equipment.

As another example, I sit rather far away from my 3 monitors (so this is also the reason why I have problems spotting the ball) since I use a tablemount and a flight chair in DCS. However, I also work and play other games so my monitor setup is geared towards my "normal sitting position". Of course, I could rearrange everything everytime I fly, but thats not realistic. This is another example why there should be some features that make the life for us as chair pilots easier. Setups are different, if you dont need some of such features, disable it.

 

It just my opinion but the F14 has exactly that and it is mostly useless. You need to focus on so much you dont have time to look to the down right when you made it the first times.

 

Its finny, if you need it you cant focus it, when you are used to Case 1 you dont need it anymore.

 

But some tipps:

 

You fly F18 right? Than dont focus on IFLOS so much. When you came out of the Groove, put your TVV shortly behind the wires while your pitchlatter (sorry dont know the correct wording) in HUD is about -3°. TaDa Glideslope. If you are lower then 3° you are low and need power. If its higher you are to high.

 

That should help you holding the glideslope until you see IFLOS for final adjustments. No zoom and 100% realistic.

[=4c=Nikola]

You fly F18 right? Than dont focus on IFLOS so much. When you came out of the Groove, put your TVV shortly behind the wires while your pitchlatter (sorry dont know the correct wording) in HUD is about -3°. TaDa Glideslope. If you are lower then 3° you are low and need power. If its higher you are to high.

 

That should help you holding the glideslope until you see IFLOS for final adjustments. No zoom and 100% realistic.

 

That's just not realistic.

[draconus]

It just my opinion but the F14 has exactly that and it is mostly useless.

 

Actually they have just removed it.

[Larkis]

That's just not realistic.

 

Its the question how you define realistic. You use only the options a real pilot wull have without extra "arcade" views.

 

So it something a real pulot COULD do.

 

Realistic in terms he should or would do? Of course not.

[randomTOTEN]

You use only the options a real pilot wull have without extra "arcade" views.

The real pilot doesn't have that option (or should not use it). That technique is called "spotting the deck" and is highly discouraged by real pilots (due to sea state issues that don't exist in DCS yet.) Besides, why deny yourself the experience of learning how to fly the ball?

 

 

Well if you zoom in your positional awareness is greatly reduced (at least mine) since the FOV is much lower then.

Outside the left and right sides of the canopy is nothing but open ocean. What could possibly be out there that's worth sacrificing the view of the visual cues you actually use when on final? I'd argue there's nothing, and at least for the final approach you should be reducing your FoV until the HUD nearly occupies the entirety of your center monitor. There's nothing else you need to worry about.

 

Ball,

Line Up,

AOA.

 

 

It's all right in front of you. That's what I did when I started.

What you'll eventually notice is that you get more comfortable with those visual cues, and can read them as they get smaller and smaller on your monitor. This allows you to make the approach with less zoom as your progress continues.

 

 

In the groove is a really bad place to mess with zoom. I suggest setting it during the last 45° of turn for what you need on final. Then leave it unchanged until you stop on the wires.

 

 

Or you can discard using the realistic "simulated" arrangement of the the alignment/control elements for pop-up 2D panels. I think that's only a hindrance you're making for yourself. It's certainly doable with a zoom view.

Edited April 4, 2020 by randomTOTEN
correct scan order

[G B]

Its the question how you define realistic. You use only the options a real pilot wull have without extra "arcade" views.

 

So it something a real pulot COULD do.

 

Realistic in terms he should or would do? Of course not.

 

Aviators are taught to scan meatball, lineup, AOA. Not the VV. It’s not until the fleet with some experience that some salty aviators may use some VV gouge. That gouge is to place the VV in the “crotch” of the ship from the start to the in-the-middle position (assuming you’ve got to a centered ball start). After that point, you cannot fly the VV any more and have to use the IFLOLS. The VV is always a good tool to show a trend of your energy state, but it is not the primary instrument. Even guys who use the gouge I mentioned, STILL scan the IFLOLS the entire pass. And that gouge is, once again, unofficial...and only used by SOME, experienced aviators.

 

Meatball. Lineup. AOA. What the real guys use. Not a single pilot ever disregards the IFLOLS for even a part of the pass.

 

I know you’re saying real guys wouldn’t do what you described. I’m just illuminating more information to the discussion.

[TonyG]

I have no grafic mods that would be relevant.

 

 

How can i be low when the ILS glideslop is bang on?

 

There is a discrepancy in the modelling of the carrier. The ICLS and the meatball don’t line up like they should. Fly the icls and you’ll see a low meatball all the way. Fly the meatball and you’ll be high on the icls.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=225991

[G B]

There is a discrepancy in the modelling of the carrier. The ICLS and the meatball don’t line up like they should. Fly the icls and you’ll see a low meatball all the way. Fly the meatball and you’ll be high on the icls.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=225991

 

Now this is actually realistic ;). It’s common IRL for the ICLS and IFLOLS to not be in perfect alignment one way or another. Remember, in the groove you aren’t supposed to be using ICLS at all. ICLS is a tool to help you get to a good start.

[Larkis]

Aviators are taught to scan meatball, lineup, AOA. Not the VV. It’s not until the fleet with some experience that some salty aviators may use some VV gouge. That gouge is to place the VV in the “crotch” of the ship from the start to the in-the-middle position (assuming you’ve got to a centered ball start). After that point, you cannot fly the VV any more and have to use the IFLOLS. The VV is always a good tool to show a trend of your energy state, but it is not the primary instrument. Even guys who use the gouge I mentioned, STILL scan the IFLOLS the entire pass. And that gouge is, once again, unofficial...and only used by SOME, experienced aviators.

 

Meatball. Lineup. AOA. What the real guys use. Not a single pilot ever disregards the IFLOLS for even a part of the pass.

 

I know you’re saying real guys wouldn’t do what you described. I’m just illuminating more information to the discussion.

 

The real pilot doesn't have that option (or should not use it). That technique is called "spotting the deck" and is highly discouraged by real pilots (due to sea state issues that don't exist in DCS yet.) Besides, why deny yourself the experience of learning how to fly the ball?

 

 

 

 

I think you two missed the last part of the sentence. I never said fly the TVV all the way to touch down. I said when you come out the groove and cant see the ball cause of technical reasons you can use it for your approach UNTIL you see the ball. At the end you MUST fly the ball.

[randomTOTEN]

TonyG,

 

 

He shows a centered meatball, but it's the wrong color and dim.

[randomTOTEN]

I said when you come out the groove and cant see the ball cause of technical reasons

Then you need to fix those technical reasons. You should absolutely be able to see the ball at 3/4 of a mile, even in the simulator. Unrealistic 2D cheat panels, and bad pilot techniques should not be solutions to what is clearly an issue for Mower (and those in his position). This is a technical issue that needs to be fixed, now. Not when a new Carrier model is released, and not when some 2D panel gets built.

[G B]

I think you two missed the last part of the sentence. I never said fly the TVV all the way to touch down. I said when you come out the groove and cant see the ball cause of technical reasons you can use it for your approach UNTIL you see the ball. At the end you MUST fly the ball.

 

I also think you missed my last sentence :).