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JSOW Moving Target


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Is it possible for a JSOW to track and hit a moving target or is it primarily for stationary objects?

 

No. You would need to have a datalink to the bomb to deliver new GPS coordinates where to impact.

 

That is the problem with the tactical use of the weapons and their selection:

 

1) Traditional "dumb" bombs and rockets.

- Once you release you can't take back.

+ Once you release, you can turn away.

+ You can hit a moving target, but only if constant by speed and vector (like using ARBS in Harrier)

+ You don't need to see the target point, you can deliver even through clouds or loft behind hills etc.

 

2) Laser guided bombs and rockets.

- You need to designate the target with laser through whole flight.

+ Someone else can designate the target, you are just the "truck" for delivery.

- You need a clear/good/optimal weather (no rain, no snowing, now clouds etc).

+ You can change target or track a erratically moving target, you can change the impact point or refine it.

- You need visual Line Of Sight for self-designation, or knowledge of the target position when for someone's else designated target (dropping bombs through cloud layer etc).

 

3) GPS guided bombs and rockets.

+ You don't need LOS on target, just get on the dropping/launch parameters.

+ You can pick any position pre-planned, like known building or bridge etc. As long you get the coordinates somehow.

- You can't hit moving targets (unless weapon itself has a active seeker like anti-ship missiles).

- No one else can't designate target for you, they need to get the coordinates and then deliver them to you.

- You can't change the target (without datalink) after launch, or refine it.

+ You can generate accurate enough GPS coordinates with a most modern A-G radar generation there is now (like F-35 etc). So you can operate well enough in any weather.

 

4) Radar guided bombs/missiles.

- You need to designate the target with your radar, program the weapon for the target zone etc.

+ You can use any weapon in any weather.

+ You can get weapon fly complex pattern before activating own seeker.

- You can't control what target the weapon will lock in the terminal phase (friend or foe, supposed target etc).

 

So if you would do a complex timing, well, you can hit a moving target with GPS guided bomb.

Example, a train speed is well known like 80 km/h, and then its position is known so that it is measured that example the train will be on the bridge 35 seconds after passing specific position.

Then you can create target point for the bridge and then get the computer calculate you the release time so that bomb would glide to bridge in that 35 seconds time.

 

Very difficult, almost impossible and again useless scenario even. Like why not bomb the bridge to stop the train, and then bomb the railroad where the train is located?

 

I don't know is there a GPS guided weapons that has a datalink that could be used to update the target position like with laser guided weapons. So that someone could designate the target, use a GPS position and then laser designator to range the target and track the angle etc. And then deliver the coordinates to bomb in flight, so that the bomb would calculate the estimated impact position from received coordinates and fly to it, as the bomb would know its position to the coordinates transmitted.

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Afaik the JSOW C thermal is just a system to match the thermal image to a predicted thermal image, it would have point track or equivalent so I seriously doubt it would be able to hit a moving target as the image the sensor would see for a moving target wouldnt match the predicted image.

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JSOW C should hit moving targets since it has IR terminal guidance.

 

Part of the point of that weapon is to hit small boats

 

Not to small boats, but large ones.

 

You don't go after tiny boats with JSOW, but use something else against those.

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The JSOW-C seeker is to improve the Pk of the weapon. It's not a moving target capability.

This seeker is a Commercial-OffThe-Shelf (COTS) product, which is also used by the auto industry for night vision headup displays. It uses an un-cooled imaging infrared detector to create video of the target area, and is optimized to highlight contrast in the scene so the weapon’s algorithm can detect edges in the images. These edges are then matched to a line template, which was created during mission planning from an overhead image of the target area.

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The JSOW-C seeker is to improve the Pk of the weapon. It's not a moving target capability.

 

Not for ground vehicles, speedboats etc.

 

C-1 variant

The JSOW C-1 is the world’s first network-enabled missile, packing a range of more than 100 kilometers. A two-way Strike Common Weapon Datalink has been added to the low-cost, combat-proven missile. It gives fleet forces the flexibility to engage moving maritime targets while retaining effectiveness against stationary land targets.

 

https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/capabilities/products/joint-standoff-weapon

 

So simply put, a aircraft carrier, cargo ship or some other large ship that doesn't move fast, can be targeted using the seeker. But even frigate or destroyer might be way too fast and especially maneuverable for the system.

 

But, considering that if attack conditions are good (weather, sun position etc) then a cold sea could nicely create contrast for the ship to be found as only sole target where to guide.

 

But for ground targets other than stationary? Nope... Buildings and such as your sample.

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simply put, a aircraft carrier, cargo ship or some other large ship that doesn't move fast, can be targeted using the seeker. But even frigate or destroyer might be way too fast and especially maneuverable for the system.

 

Quick note. The size of the ship doesn't necessarily dictate its speed. For example Nimitz class carriers can easily outpace pretty much every other ship.

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Quick note. The size of the ship doesn't necessarily dictate its speed. For example Nimitz class carriers can easily outpace pretty much every other ship.

 

Just a quick note, Nimitz class carriers are not capable to perform quick turns and maneuver like a smaller ships can that are designed for anti-submarine operations. Even when it is great to see the big turns used for tests.

 

It is not the speed, but maneuverability and how ships move typically.

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Yes of course, I was simply dispelling any misconception from the original post, where speed is mentioned exclusively.

 

Speed is not just how fast you can move forward, it is as well how fast you can move around, how fast you can maneuver, how fast you can perform maneuvers.

 

A speedboat with 15 knots speed can still faster than a carrier with 32 knots speed, because the speedboat can change its course in couple seconds, while carrier needs minutes to perform big maneuver.

 

And carrier in operational condition is not so easily to be maneuvering when you are middle of recovery or required to be launching aircrafts etc.

 

And when it comes to the common targets that you would go after (really, you are not going after a whole fleet with a JSOW), it is cargo ships and similar, where you are targeting strategically the supply line and such ships do not change course easily, it can take hours to start performing larger scale course changes.

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I'm making my through learning all the A-G ordinance and procedures and am ready to take on a moving ground target smilewink.gif

 

 

 

So since we've determined the JSOW isn't the weapon against moving ground targets...can someone tell me what is?

 

 

Thanks!

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Mavericks will work, and I assume MITL weapons like SLAM if you really need stand off.

 

 

I'm guessing you mean the Maverick AGM-65F with IR not the E with laser targeting?

 

 

 

I actually accomplished something cool yesterday with the 65E. While it was en-route to the target I slew the laser to a different target and it followed. I guess an option for moving targets would be to manually keep the laser painted on it on the FLIR screen and hope the 65E would follow?

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If you just point track the target with the FLIR and use 65E it should work just fine.

 

I think the Es are preferable IRL aswell, I assume because in a hot country there isn't much thermal contrast between an engine and the desert floor.

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If you just point track the target with the FLIR and use 65E it should work just fine.

 

I think the Es are preferable IRL aswell, I assume because in a hot country there isn't much thermal contrast between an engine and the desert floor.

 

 

Good point...I'll give it a try with the 65E. I figure as long as I don't outrun the moving target too much I should be able to slew the FLIR accurately :smilewink:

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A JSOW seems massively unnecessary for a speedboat anyway, Mavericks work great against them. I could see a moving-target capable JSOW being useful against a larger naval vessel though. Not that it's likely to matter, since we won't be getting that version anyway.

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Regardless of all of the debate on the JSOW C that we don't have back to the OP if you want to hit a moving target as of today in DCS using the 18 you will be using a Maverick or LGB of some type if you do not want to use a dumb bomb with guessing aiming ahead or a smart weapon that is aimed ahead of the target. Manually guessing your aim ahead of the target can be done but it is guess work you can get good at by practice. Mavericks or LGBs with point track they don't care that the target is moving. Naval specific you can also add in the Harpoon.


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Put it another way: why does the JSOW C have an IR seeker if not to provide terminal guidance on moving targets?

 

Fair enough it is doesn't pluck speedboats out of the water but I can't prove that it tracks anything at all in DCS

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Put it another way: why does the JSOW C have an IR seeker if not to provide terminal guidance on moving targets?

 

Fair enough it is doesn't pluck speedboats out of the water but I can't prove that it tracks anything at all in DCS

 

The point of the seeker is to verify the target is correct, consider that after 70NM of flight the ins may have lost some precision, so the bomb will need to know it's not just dropping a load of explosives into a nearby field and is infact hitting the target.

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Regardless of all of the debate on the JSOW C that we don't have back to the OP if you want to hit a moving target as of today in DCS using the 18 you will be using a Maverick or LGB of some type...

 

 

Just want to verify that this means while the MAV E or LGB is on the way that you have to keep slewing the crosshairs on the FLIR screen to stay on the moving target, correct?

 

 

I was practicing this yesterday and it was harder than I thought. It really took total concentration to keep those crosshairs on a small moving target like a tank...especially as the HUD wasn't giving me a TTI countdown and I had no idea when I was close to impact :smilewink:

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