TWS-Auto

[Kula66]

Yes, seems to work well.

[Kula66]

The countdown timer seems to be working well in TWS-A, but what should I expect to see if I launch a second missile at the same target? Should it refresh as a new, non-flashing timer?

[USA_Recon]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:15 PM, BreaKKer said:

The blinking TTI indicates the Phoenix has gone active on that specific TWS track. You are clear to turn, since the Phoenix is active, but the Phoenix will fall back onto the AWG-9 if the TWS track is held the entire time the Phoenix is active. I’m not sure entirely, but the AIM-54C variant will go active if a TWS track is lost.

 

So when I fire at a TWS target, and it's solid white, with a flashing countdown - when it's flashing it's active ?    I've seen it with like a 54 second countdown, surely it's not active yet.   Some clarity here would be nice - thanks!

[QuiGon]

11 minutes ago, USA_Recon said:

 

So when I fire at a TWS target, and it's solid white, with a flashing countdown - when it's flashing it's active ?    I've seen it with like a 54 second countdown, surely it's not active yet.   Some clarity here would be nice - thanks!

Yes, when it starts flashing the missile is active.

[captain_dalan]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:15 PM, BreaKKer said:

I’m not sure entirely, but the AIM-54C variant will go active if a TWS track is lost.

Anyone tried this?

[CarbonFox]

Is there any difference in the tracking behavior between the AIM-54C and the A variant?

[Naquaii]

5 minutes ago, CarbonFox said:

Is there any difference in the tracking behavior between the AIM-54C and the A variant?

 

In DCS? No, they only differ in the chaff resistance.

[Love_Beam]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:14 AM, Naquaii said:

 

In DCS? No, they only differ in the chaff resistance.

what is the difference like percentage wise? if its that simple haha

[Skysurfer]

2 hours ago, Love_Beam said:

what is the difference like percentage wise? if its that simple haha

 

I haven't noticed any actual, quantifiable difference in my tests. The C goes for chaff like candy.

[IronMike]

16 hours ago, Love_Beam said:

what is the difference like percentage wise? if its that simple haha

 

If the values used in chaff resistance by ED do indicate some sort of percentage, derived from that, I would say the As are about 10-20% less chaff resistant than the C.

[Greenh0rn]

Hi 
Just a question, if it had been asqed/or "not this is how the things" work plz don't hate on me

 

Situation, i was trackig a target, lunched an Aim 54 A MK60 on him in  TWS A the missle seemed to guided well but i noticed the target is started to notch, so i swithced to P-STT i had a solid lock on  taget but the missle went dumb(this is well before the missle shuld go active) . My question is:can i switch to P-STT if i luched the missle in TWS A? 

To me it is logical that a SST lock shuld be prioritised over TWS guidence commands even if it was luched in TWS but that is me...

 

Have a nice day and sorry for my crappy "english"

[near_blind]

1 minute ago, Greenh0rn said:

Situation, i was trackig a target, lunched an Aim 54 A MK60 on him in  TWS A the missle seemed to guided well but i noticed the target is started to notch, so i swithced to P-STT i had a solid lock on  taget but the missle went dumb(this is well before the missle shuld go active) . My question is:can i switch to P-STT if i luched the missle in TWS A? 

To me it is logical that a SST lock shuld be prioritised over TWS guidence commands even if it was luched in TWS but that is me...

 

The radar needs to be in a PD mode (TWS or PD-STT) to be able to talk to the AIM-54 while it's in flight. The radar cannot talk to an AIM-54 in pulse, so by going P-STT before the missile had received the active command from the radar (track began blinking on the TID), you trashed the missile. 

[Greenh0rn]

So to be clear and that i got everything right.

TWS-Aim 54 active lock (standard mode) 

TWS-PD STT i can switch and still guide the missle (in a SARH mode?)

 

P-STT all the way in SARH (just like a big Aim 7) 

 

Because if i am right firing in either STT lock means SARH and the radar on the Aim 54 won't go active so if i lunch it in TWS and and switch to PD STT will it act like a ARH or a SARH?

Thank you for the help

[near_blind]

No problem, the AWG-9 is a bit counter intuitive compared to more modern sets. 

 

• TWS - AIM-54 acts kind of like an AMRAAM. The missile flies out to the target getting updates from the radar, going active when near the target.
• PD-STT - AIM-54 acts like a giant Sparrow, needs illumination from the radar all the way to target. The missile will never go active in this mode.
• P-STT - AIM-54 receives no guidance from the AWG-9. If you shoot an AIM-54 in this mode the missile receives basic steering cues (which way to point its own antenna) and is launched active off the rail. In this mode the missile is entirely dependent on its own seeker to find targets. This only works at short range and is intended as an emergency "get this thing off my jet so I can maneuver" option.

I'm not 100% sure on what the consequences for switching between TWS and PD-STT while missiles in flight are. Perhaps @IronMike knows. 

 

[QuiGon]

19 hours ago, near_blind said:

I'm not 100% sure on what the consequences for switching between TWS and PD-STT while missiles in flight are. Perhaps @IronMike knows.

 

AFAIK switching radar mode when the missile is already on its way will cause the missile to stop guiding (unless it has already gone active at that point).

Edited March 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[FlyingTaco21]

I've had a devil of a time getting tws to work. In most cases the missiles to to about 2 miles from their targets and just fall in the sea. I've thought about notching and run different scenarios and this was not a factor in most of the occurances. I watched some videos and read about the limits of the radar gimble... but I've never seen a ... I'm blanking.. I  think it was called a centroid that shows up as an x and provides best heading to maintain radar picture of targets. The only thing I can think of is that I'm out of vertical alignment (different altitude from target)   or the I'm overriding pitbull by holding on the targets but ... I'm not sure how this would be fixed since different missiles will have different pitbull times. 

 

Does relative speed matter ? I've often slowed because I'm afraid that I'll lose lock due to the narrowing of the cone as range decreases. 

[bonesvf103]

How about this scenario?  You launch Phoenixes on 4 targets in TWS-A mode.  As they are guiding, and before they go pitbull, you accidentally forget that you switched the HCU to radar cursor and as you are trying to hook a TWS target, you inadvertanlty slew the radar antenna, screwing up the TWS tracks.

 

Yes bonehead me did this.

 

If you realize this fast enough, switch back to TWS-A, and tracks start to reappear in the TID, will the Phoenixes in flight reacquire since there are again valid tracks, or are they lost?

 

v6,

boNes

Edited May 13, 2021 by bonesvf103

[near_blind]

If they don't have the TTI counter next to them they're not the tracks the AWG-9 was guiding the missiles to, and those missiles are lost. 

 

If they still have the TTI Counter and they're X'd out, then they're being extrapolated and the missiles will still guide to the estimated position before going active.

[N1tch]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:53 PM, near_blind said:

If they still have the TTI Counter and they're X'd out, then they're being extrapolated and the missiles will still guide to the estimated position before going active.

 

When you say X'ed out do you mean when the X appears over the target? (Just want to be sure I understand you correctly).

[near_blind]

4 hours ago, N1tch said:

When you say X'ed out do you mean when the X appears over the target? (Just want to be sure I understand you correctly).

Bottom most track is the original track for a contact that has been lost and is being extrapolated, and has a missile that's currently 30 seconds until TTI.

Track above it is the same contact that has been reacquired by the radar, but is too far away to be correlated onto the existing track, and thus has been assigned a new track. 
 

[Whiskey11]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:49 PM, bonesvf103 said:

How about this scenario?  You launch Phoenixes on 4 targets in TWS-A mode.  As they are guiding, and before they go pitbull, you accidentally forget that you switched the HCU to radar cursor and as you are trying to hook a TWS target, you inadvertanlty slew the radar antenna, screwing up the TWS tracks.

 

Yes bonehead me did this.

 

If you realize this fast enough, switch back to TWS-A, and tracks start to reappear in the TID, will the Phoenixes in flight reacquire since there are again valid tracks, or are they lost?

 

v6,

boNes

 

Depending on time of flight remaining until going active, and the bandit's movement, you may still get a hit.  The AWG-9 will hold tracks for quite some time and try and extrapolate the aircraft's position based upon last known good information.  So long as  the missile goes active, and they don't move, there is still a good probability of getting hits when they go active.  If they move significantly, it'll probably miss.  If it is safe to do so, it'd be worth staying nose hot until they are active (or the tracks disappear) and then turn cold.

[bonesvf103]

Thanks!

 

 

v6,

boNes