Constantly loosing STT lock?

[Harley Davidson]

Hey,

I seem to be loosing STT lock about 95% of the time, head on merge, 25000ft... etc.

 

 

Is this normal, anyone else have this problem?

[The LT]

Hey,

I seem to be loosing STT lock about 95% of the time, head on merge, 25000ft... etc.

 

 

Is this normal, anyone else have this problem?

PD or Pulse?

[Bob Morton]

Hey,

I seem to be loosing STT lock about 95% of the time, head on merge, 25000ft... etc.

 

 

Is this normal, anyone else have this problem?

 

Absolutely have this problem - jester switches radar modes and loses the STT lock all the time.

[kievbsm]

And + 1 from my side!

Going to be mad when trying to use AIM-7.

And don't tell me about notching or something like that.

When Jester didn't touch radar after lock the target in STT mode then everything is fine.

[sLYFa]

Disable automatic switch to P-STT in the special menu tab

[kievbsm]

It is very smart to switch off the uniq feature of F-14B.

And also we need to find the reason of why P-STT mode was implemented if we need to switch off it :smilewink:

Edited April 15, 2020 by kievbsm

[r4y30n]

Pulse STT is not a unique feature of the F-14, it's present on the MiG-21, MiG-19, F-5E... And there are numerous threads here discussing pulse vs pulse doppler modes and the circumstances where one is better than the other. PD is great at filtering clutter but pulse is good for holding onto beaming targets. If you're in a situation where you know pulse will be unreliable then it's better to remain in PD and not let Jester switch.

[kievbsm]

I have F-14B module only and have never heard anything about loosing STT lock from owners of other modules (MiG's and other). Can say nothing about it.

 

But in case of Tomcat... The main problem is you' will never know when Jester loose a target next time.

I have one offline training mission where one bot flying with the same route and with the same behaviour every time. Sometime Jester can lock this bot and never loose it. But sometime he can't even lock this bot as target. How will I know what Jester can do at the current situation?

 

For me the critical issue is when Jester changes radar mode AFTER AIM-7 launch. It is almost 100% that he will lose the STT lock. And I still don't understand why he does it in case he has stable lock of target in PD-STT.

[Eagle7907]

Last I heard, don’t use the “jester automatically uses PSTT”. It was found that this may cause a loss of lock and last I heard of as being looked into as a bug.

 

My technique is to manually tell Jester to switch to PSTT and just keep the bandit higher than you. Don’t let him descend lower into the ground clutter. Also, be aware that there are times when you tell Jester to switch to PSTT, he will acknowledge it, but will not actually switch to PSTT. It is a bug. It’s best to always tell him to switch to PSTT. Then go back to Jester menu and see if it changed. It will say “switch to PDSTT” if Jester did do what he was told. If he does not switch, unfortunately you can hop to RIO position and you’ll have to STT lock then press the Pulse STT button.

 

Good hunting!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Padre Pio]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:36 PM, Eagle7907 said:

My technique is to manually tell Jester to switch to PSTT and just keep the bandit higher than you. Don’t let him descend lower into the ground clutter. Also, be aware that there are times when you tell Jester to switch to PSTT, he will acknowledge it, but will not actually switch to PSTT. It is a bug. It’s best to always tell him to switch to PSTT. Then go back to Jester menu and see if it changed. It will say “switch to PDSTT” if Jester did do what he was told. If he does not switch, unfortunately you can hop to RIO position and you’ll have to STT lock then press the Pulse STT button.

Sorry for digging the old topic.  I have additional question for all Tomcat experts: is there any other indication from the pilot's seat to check if we are in PD-STT or pulse?  I have a key binded to jester AI which orders him to toggle stt modes. Problem is,  after few tries I do not know which one is now. Eagle's advise is useful,  however this way is time-taking. I tried to sit as Rio and check the state on his cockpit, however this way turns all the radar settings upside - down after returning to pilot's seat. 

[captain_dalan]

There is a contextual menu for Jester, that tells him to switch either from P-STT to PD-STT or vice versa. Maybe if you map that to a key binding, you can do quick popup checks? Just speculating here, i was never in your situation. My Jester auto switch to P-STT is disabled and i always start with a PD-STT, eventually switching to P-STT when very close and closer then that, i'm in PAL, PLM or VSL-High/Low and those are all pulse modes. 

[Padre Pio]

3 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

There is a contextual menu for Jester, that tells him to switch either from P-STT to PD-STT or vice versa. Maybe if you map that to a key binding,

Oh yes, it surly is. However, you cannot bind single key to specified jester's submenu or just a specified option from a submenu. When you look at 'controls setting', there is a table called 'Jester AI' which is very limited with commands. I have binded an option 'toggle PD-STT & P-STT modes' which works in both directions. If they were separate, it would be clear situation. You can also bind switching to TWS or RWS. 

Anyhow, I see that I have to speed up my training of VAICOM which has much more Jester options, even more than context menu. The problem is, that I am so excited with flying Tomcat itself, that there is no time for additional tools.  

[Callsign JoNay]

Doesn't it show the radar mode in the controls overlay? You could fly with that turned on, I guess.

[Padre Pio]

1 hour ago, Callsign JoNay said:

controls overlay?

What do you mean by this? Maybe something I don't know yet.

[Callsign JoNay]

2 hours ago, Padre Pio said:

What do you mean by this? Maybe something I don't know yet.

I think its r.ctrl enter? It brings up a little overlay in the lower left of your monitor that shows your stick, trim, and throttle inputs. Over top of the window I know it also tells you if you are in RWS or TWS.  I can't remember foe sure if it indicates PSTT or PDSTT but I'm pretty sure it does?

[Padre Pio]

Thanks! I will check tomorrow.  Today was one of that sad days without DCS 

[Comstedt86]

There is a setting in special options which dissables Jesters auto PDSTT > PSTT when entering 10nm or whatever the range is, this can sometimes mess up a Fox 1 launch in STT. 

But randomly loosing a lock most of the seems weird. What ranges? 

I suspect if you are in PDSTT it could be due ti notching, however a PSTT lock is hard to loose even in look down situation. 

[Padre Pio]

On 1/12/2022 at 9:27 PM, Callsign JoNay said:

I think its r.ctrl enter? It brings up a little overlay in the lower left of your monitor that shows your stick, trim, and throttle inputs. Over top of the window I know it also tells you if you are in RWS or TWS.  I can't remember foe sure if it indicates PSTT or PDSTT but I'm pretty sure it does?

Thanks really much! This is it and it works. It really shows actual mode, even in STT. Thanks to it I can now recognize, that Jester is a little liar. He always confirms the order to switch to P-STT, but do it only when he wants to (someone here mentioned about it) . Usually there is no chance to force him, to switch to Pulse if target is over 10nm away. Not logical, because Pulse range is much greater than 10nm and can be very useful. In the opposite way, there is no chance to force Jester to switch to PD-STT when the target is closer than 10nm. Rare situation, but sometimes could be also useful. I do not know, how these commands were originally projected, but something is surly wrong. Generally, if you want to be sure, you must BE a Jester. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Padre Pio

[captain_dalan]

6 hours ago, Padre Pio said:

Thanks really much! This is it and it works. It really shows actual mode, even in STT. Thanks to it I can now recognize, that Jester is a little liar. He always confirms the order to switch to P-STT, but do it only when he wants to (someone here mentioned about it) . Usually there is no chance to force him, to switch to Pulse if target is over 10nm away. Not logical, because Pulse range is much greater than 10nm and can be very useful. In the opposite way, there is no chance to force Jester to switch to PD-STT when the target is closer than 10nm. Rare situation, but sometimes could be also useful. I do not know, how these commands were originally projected, but something is surly wrong. Generally, if you want to be sure, you must BE a Jester. 

 

You know, these are some good points you raise there. Just last night, after the usual MP shenanigans, i went for some SP FOX-1 training, and on a couple occasions (literally 2), after losing the PD-STT lock inside 15 miles with the bandit high, i went PAL and nose up, because i had a general idea, where the bandit was supposed to be. I immediately locked him up, and then the lock was instantaneously dropped, like inside 1 second of it being established. This isn't the first time this happened, but it is an edge-case, as i usually am amble to perform anti-notching maneuvers, or lose the lock much closer do to large lateral displacement. Not in these two cases though. So, what gives? The bandit is high, inside 15 miles and PAL should be P-STT. So the lock should unbreakable, notching or not. But it does break and it breaks similarly to how it breaks when auto-switch to P-STT is on. So what if Jester is switching between P and PD despite PAL being on? Had i read this post i might have saved the tracks!

Anyways, this may be worth investigating. @IronMike? 

[Padre Pio]

16 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

But it does break and it breaks similarly to how it breaks when auto-switch to P-STT is on. So what if Jester is switching between P and PD despite PAL being on?

Oh yes, happened to me few times. PAL is excellent until it's PAL. After locking (my feeling, not knowledge) it becomes a regular P-STT with all the consequences and strange surprises. There is definetly something missed between the lines of Tomcat's program-code (or Jester code)

Edited January 16, 2022 by Padre Pio

[draconus]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:10 PM, captain_dalan said:

So the lock should unbreakable, notching or not.

Your harsh maneuvering can break it.

[captain_dalan]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

Your harsh maneuvering can break it.

No maneuvering involved here mate. After losing the lock, i point the nose to where the bandit is in the sky, 45-50 degrees high, i kick PAL, after 2 sweeps the PAL picks him up, and immediately loses the lock. With the nose in place i kick PAL a second time, PAL locks him on the first pass, the lock is immediately lost again. Something's fuzzy there. I'll try and save a track the next time i run DCS, but it's a very specific edge-case scenario and with none of my MP mates around, getting the AI to comply won't be easy. 

[near_blind]

15 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

With the nose in place i kick PAL a second time, PAL locks him on the first pass, the lock is immediately lost again. Something's fuzzy there. I'll try and save a track the next time i run DCS, but it's a very specific edge-case scenario and with none of my MP mates around, getting the AI to comply won't be easy. 

Are you sure you're actually locking your target? Fun thing about PAL: it can and will lock onto chaff bundles which will then disappear after a moment as they dissipate. You can verify with TCS, the other easy tell is an aircraft will usually have some relative motion, chaff is stationary. 

[IronMike]

We've done a MP test for the new aim54 changes this weekend and I used PAL several times and it held lock steady as can be.

[captain_dalan]

4 hours ago, near_blind said:

Are you sure you're actually locking your target? Fun thing about PAL: it can and will lock onto chaff bundles which will then disappear after a moment as they dissipate. You can verify with TCS, the other easy tell is an aircraft will usually have some relative motion, chaff is stationary. 

If the chaff disappear in under a second then it might as well be chaff. PAL locking on to CM is something that is new and welcome news to me, it's good to have that in mind while engaging it. Will chaff also break an already established lock? 

And here is a track, SP normally (for all the good it is), against a MiG-29. Not an ideal one, as i didn't have enough time to experiment more then a dozen of times. The MiG is high above both the nose and the horizon when the PAL locks and loses the lock in the same second. The 2nd lock is successful this time though.
braking a P-STT in PAL.trk