DCS World roadmap update

[Beirut]

Must be unprecedented to have the COO of a software company interact with its consumers.

 

It is really nice to see this interaction. Also, great to see you've learned from the release of the F16. Get the core stable and the rest can follow.

 

Cheers

 

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree. This has been a textbook case of how not to handle a product delay.

 

 

The majority of paying customers are being told to wait for a product in order that a minority of customers can have features they would have to wait for anyway. And from what I read, if it's correct, there are plans being made to offer refunds for a product people want, have already paid for, and could have today.

 

 

That last part is truly the alpha and omega of mind boggling inanity. I'd be unemployed by dinner if I ran my business like that.

[Swinny]

Hey Kate,

 

While you're here I figured I'd ask about prioritization. What contributes to making any certain new module the priority over fixing the core aspects of the simulator? If it's purely financial reasons (as the fact that working on a new module generates revenue and the core sim does not), then why not move to a subscription model?

 

I get that a big selling point is that this is a "free" software, but if you need money in order to work on the core sim I could promise that your base customers would stick around through a subscription. Hell the subscription could even make you enough that you don't have to sell modules for the steep price of $60-80 (or even make them free).

 

Just a thought, and appreciate you being around to answer people's questions.

 

Cheers.

[Maverick_NL]

New product: multiplayer tested by dev team, tested by internal QA, tested together by QA and dev team in play sessions, beta testers invited to test => OB.

 

Existing product: QA + beta testers.

 

The procedures depend on the product, usually with small missions because it's easier to get the bug.

 

And the code is tested by special libraries with scalability, load and stress testing, specific network testing.

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the answer Kate!!

[robgraham]

Dear Rob,

 

Thank you for your comments. It's good to know that you are in perfect shape.

 

Here are my updates:

 

1. public bug tracking system: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4288166&postcount=227

In short: I'm opened for suggestions.

 

2. changelog is improved. And it will be even better with the changes we made to the code commits. I think that 13 pages of changes are not a bad improvement.

 

3. 2.5.6 VR crash was reported at the initial delivery and was fixed. If it still appears, please submit the ticket to tech support with logs. We recently discovered that some hardware libs love to eat completely full RAM. We were surprised and it was not related to DCS at all.

 

We made changes again and the new update will be today.

 

Thank you for your passion for DCS and the help you deliver. I appreciate it.

 

 

1. Honestly email Atl and tell them what you need, they generally really really good, the issues going to be that you want public/private/public which is not the easiest to do as you already know you have to basically be able to either have 2 seperate Repo's or one with distinct seperate areas .. which technically might be possible but not easily, plus Alt charges based on user group etc... I think its been a little bit which makes things more headachy.. other then that would be to script in a 'copy' button into both sides that stores the db uid and copies the pertaent information over each time.

 

2. There getting better yes but case in point update before last missed a lot of scripting engine fixes and changes, it wasn't until last patch those notes got on and they were a direct copy and paste of what i'd said to Nine was missed..

 

3. Ah.. I have been submitting logs, not only for myself but at least 4 others Kate along with automated reporting every time a crash happens now for 2-3 months. I can list the threads were I've done the reports myself but I can also list the threads were others have reported the exact same crash but just mine for 2.5.6 on this one issue..

 

- First time when it looked like it was just the hornet causing the issue but as the thread points out it wasn't.. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=265362

- after getting frustrated 2 weeks ago when it ruined an entire night for our group.. again

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=268593

 

that doens't include the reporting of the sync issues etc etc So I've done what you asked, we have reported multiple rigs, sent reports every time a crash happens by the automated reporter etc..

 

These need to be acknowledged as happening in patch notes and if cause isn't known admit it but at least acknowledge that it exists and is known.. i mean over 1/2 of the crash reports in the crash area atm are the same exact crash as I said if you review the log files.. they all look something like this

 

2020-04-13 09:36:23.543 WARNING EFFECTS2: BowwaveEmitter: unknown parameter
2020-04-13 09:36:23.783 WARNING LOG: 1 duplicate message(s) skipped.
2020-04-13 09:36:30.786 INFO    EDCORE: try to write dump information
2020-04-13 09:36:30.786 INFO    EDCORE: # -------------- 20200413-093630 --------------
2020-04-13 09:36:30.787 INFO    EDCORE: DCS/2.5.6.45915 (x86_64; Windows NT 10.0.18363)
2020-04-13 09:36:30.788 INFO    EDCORE: 
2020-04-13 09:36:30.789 INFO    EDCORE: # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at 1D564518 00:00000000
2020-04-13 09:36:30.792 INFO    EDCORE: SymInit: Symbol-SearchPath: '.;J:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World;J:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\bin;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\system32;SRV*C:\websymbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols;', symOptions: 530, UserName: 'robert'
2020-04-13 09:36:30.793 INFO    EDCORE: OS-Version: 10.0.18363 () 0x300-0x1
2020-04-13 09:36:31.371 INFO    EDCORE: 0x000001F6C3C698D8 ((module-name not available)): (function-name not available) + 0x0
2020-04-13 09:36:31.373 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000000106857 (Visualizer): RenderParserImpl::DrawTransparentAll + 0x87
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000001066E4 (Visualizer): RenderParserImpl::DrawTransparent + 0x34
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x000000000010B369 (Visualizer): RenderParserImpl::isEmpty + 0x3CA9
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000000037945 (GraphicsCore): enlight::Water::renderRefraction + 0x6E5
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000000037A46 (GraphicsCore): enlight::WaterWrapper::renderRefraction + 0x56
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000000140836 (Visualizer): smSceneManager::CreateSceneManager + 0x6E46
2020-04-13 09:36:31.374 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000006DBCC7 (DCS): woLA::loadNewInputLayout + 0x303BC7
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000006ECEC3 (DCS): dDispatcher::InitDatabase + 0xDFF3
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000006C3364 (DCS): woLA::loadNewInputLayout + 0x2EB264
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000006C3729 (DCS): woLA::loadNewInputLayout + 0x2EB629
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000001696BD3 (DCS): AmdPowerXpressRequestHighPerformance + 0xB19BCF
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x00000000008A01FE (DCS): uiAsyncNet::onGameStop + 0x67CCE
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x0000000000017BD4 (KERNEL32): BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x14
2020-04-13 09:36:31.375 INFO    EDCORE: 0x000000000006CED1 (ntdll): RtlUserThreadStart + 0x21
2020-04-13 09:36:31.791 INFO    EDCORE: Minidump created.

 

I'll let you know if it's still there after the patch today but yeah that bugs been there now since 2.5.6 first dropped and kills the game for VR users especially but even non vr users are getting it.

[Rebel28]

Not one mention of a P-51 popping sound fix?

[TheGuardian]

Warning!! My opinion ahead:

 

 

Thanks for the reply, I totally see what you mean but I'm just really impatient for the carrier module as probably a lot of people who only play SP just like me (it's two thirds according to Kate though I don't know how much of them have bought SC), and if it doesn't take any supplementary time to do this, I'd still hope it would be released for SP first (so that everybody can play a bit with the module and try out stuff and also make the SP players happy) and then Multi-player would be released. Though this is pretty much only dependent of ED, I am sure SP release is the way I'd want it to go but if they think it is gonna take additional time to only release SP first and then launch MP late because of the time it took to make the first release then yeah, maybe it isn't the way to go for everyone, I don't know man, just my opinion again...

 

Ahh yes, also have fun too and stay safe

 

It's all good man, everyone wants it differently, and there is nothing wrong with that. I am as impatient for it as anyone else, I just know where my personal fun would be had is MP. I guess time will tell which way it goes. Have a good man.

[jasonbirder]

Here is my line of thinking, wrong as it may be, the entire purpose of the SC is multiplayer based

 

 

I hardly think ED would waste their time and effort developing and releasing a module that the overwhelming majority of their customers wouldn't use/wouldn't see any benefit from...would they?

[Joker69]

Those are your priorities. For others the way an explosion is accurately simulated to what would happen in real life is very important and is an immersion killer if not right. For some AI is seen as a waste of time when they fight with and against real people exclusively. How many play DCS on both VR and a monitor to justify your suggestion being a top priority?

 

Ask for the priorities from the community and you will get a zillion different lists. Maybe give the entire customer base the task of providing an agreed list and sit back and enjoy the fireworks :)

 

DCS is many things to many people, that brings joy and dismay in various measures depending upon how you see things! For me DCS is about providing "realistic entertainment". I don't spend time on entertainment that doesn't entertain, I go do something else. Quite how people can spend their time creating videos about "what is wrong with..." this game or that game and hours on forums bashing things whilst carrying on playing them defeats me.

 

I always respect everyone's thoughts, but perhaps you have misunderstood what I meant.

I love this simulator so much that I have all the modules, all the terrains, all the campaigns except 2. I really like the graphics and the special effects.

I just said that there are things that a simulator (if it is called a simulator and not a video game) must necessarily have. DCS is a real simulator, for me the best.

 

The real life of a pilot is not to launch missiles from morning to night.

First there is flight, mission planning, the use of cockpit avionics such as radio and radar etc. These parts are essential for a simulator. When making a cold start, the first thing a pilot does is to communicate with the tower via radio, respect the taxi, the holding point, alignment with the runway etc.

For human users I know perfectly well that there are real pilots but in a battlefield there are several aircraft and vehicles. Not always 100% human. And when there is AI, intelligent behavior is important. Unless you prefer to have static targets available to blow up for the player's delight.

For the switch with graphic transition from VR to Monitor it was made today.

DCS is an excellent simulator and requires both monitor and VR use. Being the parameters different this was an interesting option to avoid setting DCS every time.

VR is now essential and DCS in VR gives its best. Try VR if You never have done this.. You will see what I mean. If You have tried VR You should know that there are different settings.

 

Then I also like special effects. No doubt about this. :thumbup:

 

Finally, mine were just personal suggestions for the beautiful road map provided by Kate. Realism is very important to me and I believe this is also the mission of DCS. It is thanks to this that DCS is so beautiful and realistic today. Products like Supercarrier represent a goal of maximum approach to real life.

Obviously it's just my opinion .. :smilewink:

Edited April 16, 2020 by Joker69°

[Charly314159]

Unfortunately, and despite the announcement that were made, today's update makes no noticable improvement about VR performance. It is still mostly unplayable. Please don't consider pushing that to stable.

 

It has been more than two months now if you cannot make 2.5.6 graphics work decently you should revert back to 2.5.5. it is also what a beta is for. As I said in a previous post there is no point in having new lightning at the cost of resolution (PD from 1.4 to 0.9 in my case), anti-aliasing and texture while still not being able to maintain a decent frame rate.

[Gryzor]

Unfortunately, and despite the announcement that were made, today's update makes no noticable improvement about VR performance. It is still mostly unplayable. Please don't consider pushing that to stable.

 

It has been more than two months now if you cannot make 2.5.6 graphics work decently you should revert back to 2.5.5. it is also what a beta is for. As I said in a previous post there is no point in having new lightning at the cost of resolution (PD from 1.4 to 0.9 in my case), anti-aliasing and texture while still not being able to maintain a decent frame rate.

 

+1

 

There is some big problem with AI ground units in the last version... test F-16 Free Flight in Persian Gulf, or Insurgent Quick Action with KA-50 in Caucasus... in those mission, only by having some ground units, FPS goes down -90% (from 45 fps stable in VR, to 10 fps). Even worse that in the last 2.5.6.

 

@KATE: sincerely, I don´t see any FPS improvement, nor significant or insignificant, and in those missions there is no FPS downgrade related with lightening or graphics improvement.

 

There is Something really bad related with AI pathfinding or something that brings FPS to unacceptable levels. Please revise the code since 2.5.5, what is happend... or hire some experts in code debugging... I don´t remember any beta like this, nor in 1.5 when edge was bring to us with DX11, in 2.0a,... NEVER.

[speed-of-heat]

i get poor FPS even without AI units... but the CPU is taking a lot more hits than it was in 2.5.5 ... so maybe that exacerbates the AI problem

[Mikaa]

Thanks for the reply!

[Avimimus]

Hello, I might have missed it - but here is my big question:

 

MAC (formerly FC4) is now a separate product from FC3/DCS. This has caused me to doubt whether there will be any updates to the FC3 aircraft, particularly the Su-25/Su-25T...

 

The engine was quite different when they were first released and updates over the years have meant that things like being able to set the time delay on cluster bombs matters a lot more than it used to. However, these aircraft lack such a capability (a keyboard command or having ability to set the delay in the mission editor would be useful).

 

Are there plans to keep the FC3 aircraft up-to-date now that it appears FC4/MAC won't be part of DCS?

[mazex]

Best update I have seen in a game forum! Thanks a lot for that.

 

A side note - this forum is really starting to show it's age. If there was a modern forum a lot of the pages of "thank you Kate" could have been a "Thanks" click on your post instead? I think it would declutter the forum quite a bit? And people like to have a like buttons these days ;) But you will not see this post as it will soon be 10 pages back...

[heillon]

Dear Monnie,

 

Thank you for your remarks and question.

 

1) Yes, we will have a public bug tracking system.

 

We use Jira. I looked through the possibility to have it public. Well, bad luck. They provide Service Desk which is a bit different service, it's more for tech support we have on our website.

 

I need to create an environment where the community can post, search, comment and vote. And on the other hand, it should be an automated solution to transfer those bugs to the development team with a private tracking system without public access.

 

And be able automatically (okay through even and scripting) update from devs system to public system.

 

There is a possibility with Jira Service Desk and Confluence to create a knowledge base, but again it's not a public => private => public bug tracking solution.

 

Still looking for solutions and open for suggestions.

 

2) Written down, we'll take care.

 

 

Have you checked Request Tracker (RT) https://bestpractical.com/

 

 

If not already there you can easily script tasks there. So it would not be too much work to push certain issues into your private tracker, either via REST interface or even just emailing from there to your jira to create a ticket there...

[TomCatMucDe]

Must be unprecedented to have the COO of a software company interact with its consumers.

 

It is really nice to see this interaction. Also, great to see you've learned from the release of the F16. Get the core stable and the rest can follow.

 

Cheers

 

According to LinkedIn, she is CEO of ED

[Baldrick33]

I always respect everyone's thoughts, but perhaps you have misunderstood what I meant.

I love this simulator so much that I have all the modules, all the terrains, all the campaigns except 2. I really like the graphics and the special effects.

I just said that there are things that a simulator (if it is called a simulator and not a video game) must necessarily have. DCS is a real simulator, for me the best.

I just think when we start saying what a product "must necessarily have" it becomes a variable list depending upon preferences. Ultimately the aspiration to be able to replicate real world operations from briefing to debriefing and everything in between would cover pretty much everything and a bunch of options in between for those that don't have the time nor inclination, I would guess that Instant Action is the most used aspect by the majority of customers.

 

In my view the options in between may in the short term be the greater priorities for many reasons that make more sense internally than might be understood by a community of everyone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the community involvement it great just that we should never expect the strategic development to be devolved.

[Wexler]

I would guess that Instant Action is the most used aspect by the majority of customers.

 

I would be really insterested about some statistics how customers play the DCS. SP/MP, instant actions / missions / campaigns / user files / generator ? (never used it) / Own edit (I use often). Cold start / hot start etc.

 

As to your suggestion, I dont think that players play instant mostly. This customers will probably be fast enough into MAC game then. But again, I would be very interested in statistics about this.

[speed-of-heat]

personally i use Instant action for Famil flights and testing(because they are a tightly bounded problem space)... i tend to play missions or campaigns

[Kate Perederko]

Hello, I might have missed it - but here is my big question:

 

MAC (formerly FC4) is now a separate product from FC3/DCS. This has caused me to doubt whether there will be any updates to the FC3 aircraft, particularly the Su-25/Su-25T...

 

The engine was quite different when they were first released and updates over the years have meant that things like being able to set the time delay on cluster bombs matters a lot more than it used to. However, these aircraft lack such a capability (a keyboard command or having ability to set the delay in the mission editor would be useful).

 

Are there plans to keep the FC3 aircraft up-to-date now that it appears FC4/MAC won't be part of DCS?

 

Thank you for your question!

 

FC4 is not in the plan to be released. The series finished with FC3.

 

MAC will be a new direction of ED.

 

We plan to update aircraft one-by-one when we have time. Probably it will be a constant update for all and by the end of the update, we will start a new cycle for F18, F16, and others because we will need to update them to a new level of technologies.

[Kate Perederko]

Best update I have seen in a game forum! Thanks a lot for that.

 

A side note - this forum is really starting to show it's age. If there was a modern forum a lot of the pages of "thank you Kate" could have been a "Thanks" click on your post instead? I think it would declutter the forum quite a bit? And people like to have a like buttons these days ;) But you will not see this post as it will soon be 10 pages back...

 

Thank you for your support and comments.

 

Yes, we thinking of having the update of the forum software.

[schurem]

So what happened to the F4 phantom? Or is it the mind blowing mystery alluded to some time ago?

[Kate Perederko]

Have you checked Request Tracker (RT) https://bestpractical.com/

 

 

If not already there you can easily script tasks there. So it would not be too much work to push certain issues into your private tracker, either via REST interface or even just emailing from there to your jira to create a ticket there...

 

Thank you for your suggestion. I didn't know about it and I watched the webinar on YT.

 

Well, it's similar to Jira Service Desk. But I'm looking for a different solution. The key point is that an anonymous user can come to a website, let's call it DCS World Bug Tracking, and can browse or search for bugs and keep tracking via watch function, be able to add a comment, vote for a bug and submit new bugs.

[Charly314159]

Good morning Kate,

 

Could you tell us why nobody seems to notice the VR performance improvement that you have been announcing for the past two days?

 

VR is still unplayable for a lot of users.

[Baldrick33]

I would be really insterested about some statistics how customers play the DCS. SP/MP, instant actions / missions / campaigns / user files / generator ? (never used it) / Own edit (I use often). Cold start / hot start etc.

 

As to your suggestion, I dont think that players play instant mostly. This customers will probably be fast enough into MAC game then. But again, I would be very interested in statistics about this.

Yeh, pure speculation on my part but I get the feeling things like airfield take off and landings, carrier take off and landings, air to air refuelling and dogfights (all in single player) might form a decent chunk of activity where people want the high fidelity aircraft to play with. Could be way off the mark, just the facebook feeds I see tend to be full of those.