Elevator Trim not working as should do

[jorgesoo]

I am using a Thrustmaster Cougar at my sims (Falcon 4 and Condor2)

Now I am using DCS as I like WW2 Warbirds. The problem is that the elevator trim doesnt work as should do, in spite of trimming nose down at the full limit, all my aircrafts, (P51, FW190 and Spitfire), continue raising slightly the nose.

It is not highly noticiable, but at a long flight is very unconfortable, as you have to exert down pressure constantly.

I have no problems with the other sims y mentioned, and the stick is perfecly centered as can be seen in the Cougar Calibration App.

I mapped the elevator and rudder trim to my joystick hat.

Also I noticed that when in real mode, there is no problem, it only happens at game mode

Any opinión will be welcome

Thanks

[Art-J]

Both "game" flight and avionics modes are full of similar glitches and poorly supported, probably because not many players use them. I'd recommend not spending much time with them, if any.

 

That being said, I suppose you're aware of the fact that each airplane has separate control assignments for game flight mode? Are you sure you use game controls for game flight mode and sim controls for sim flight mode?

[grafspee]

Agree, Other then sim mode this game offer nothing in arcade mode.

Game mode is not transition step to sim mode. Don't waste time there.

Edited April 20, 2020 by grafspee

[jorgesoo]

Both "game" flight and avionics modes are full of similar glitches and poorly supported, probably because not many players use them. I'd recommend not spending much time with them, if any.

 

That being said, I suppose you're aware of the fact that each airplane has separate control assignments for game flight mode? Are you sure you use game controls for game flight mode and sim controls for sim flight mode?

 

 

Thanks for your reply

I am using the same set of controls for both game and real

I like better the real mode, but the only thing that I dislike is the aileron behaviour, I feel a sort of pendulum efect which I think it is not real. At least in terms of my real flying experience (not in Warbirds, of course)

[grafspee]

Can you elaborate on this concern. Are you referring to overall behavior of ailerons or to behavior in specific situation ?.

Is it yaw deflection while applying aileron ? or something else ?

Edited April 20, 2020 by grafspee

[Hammer1-1]

why even use game mode? DCS as a whole is worth over 3,000 dollars if you have all the aircraft alone; game mode gives you maybe $1.15 worth out of every aircraft you pay for...

[jorgesoo]

Can you elaborate on this concern. Are you referring to overall behavior of ailerons or to behavior in specific situation ?.

Is it yaw deflection while applying aileron ? or something else ?

 

 

No yaw deflection when the turn is coordinate.

But despite the more authentic behaviour of the aircraft at real mode, I feel the 3 axes controls wobbly and swaying.

At game mode they feel more stable and similar to the real thing, as far as I remember from my experience at real flight ( I confess that the most similar to a warbird I flew, was an AT6 Texan), although the game mode lacks the torque, the low and high speed stalling efects, and some others of the real mode.

I really think that the ideal should be to mix some of the game mode controls response, with all the other features of the real mode

[Whisper]

This is a personnal feeling, but I find the Spitfire wayyy oversensitive compared to the other warbirds in DCS, so I followed the advice Philstyle made long time ago and it gives me very good result :

* On the pitch axis, I lower the maximum deflection by lowering, in the Axis Tuning window for pitch, the Y saturation. I go down to 70 if not even 60. I doesn't seem to hamper the maximum performance in turns in any way

* On the roll axis,(EDIT) : it better be left untouched

* On the rudder axis, I use a rather big curve (25-30 , something like that, from the top of my head) as also on this axis, she is very sensitive, despite my quality rudder.

 

It changes the spitfire a lot, making it far more stable, without interfering with flight performance. Mind you, I use an elongated stick in central position, the saturation needed may even be lower for a tabletop, shorter stick.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Whisper

[grafspee]

Or just learn to use stick with high precision. And don't yank it like crazy man. Unfortunately there always be this issue, hardware vs simulator. Some sims adding artificial dampener between those 2 to reduce handicap of very short PC's sticks etc... same with rudder pedals.

Edited April 21, 2020 by grafspee

[grafspee]

No yaw deflection when the turn is coordinate.

 

I was referring to yaw tendency while applying aileron.

[Whisper]

Or just learn to use stick with high precision. And don't yank it like crazy man. Unfortunately there always be this issue, hardware vs simulator.

 

LOL

No, I don't yank like crazy, tyvm. She is just way more sensitive than the others. Otherwise I would need to to the same on all my birds, and this is the only one where I'm even thinking about doing it.

 

Sure, I could just use minimal inpput all the time. But... If I'm all the time using only a portion of my stick course and quite franckly never push or pull it to the limit, because I reach desired output wayyy before that point, then.... I may as well tweak these limits to correspond to my stick course, so that I take advantage of the full course of it. Actually, not doing it would be purposefully hampering my precision for no reason at all, and that would be quite stupid.

[grafspee]

LOL

No, I don't yank like crazy, tyvm. She is just way more sensitive than the others. Otherwise I would need to to the same on all my birds, and this is the only one where I'm even thinking about doing it.

 

Sure, I could just use minimal inpput all the time. But... If I'm all the time using only a portion of my stick course and quite franckly never push or pull it to the limit, because I reach desired output wayyy before that point, then.... I may as well tweak these limits to correspond to my stick course, so that I take advantage of the full course of it. Actually, not doing it would be purposefully hampering my precision for no reason at all, and that would be quite stupid.

 

In pitch axis agree, but in aileron, reducing saturation not wise, not wise.

[Whisper]

I agree, it's really only usefull for pitch, in the Spit, and not to be done on roll. I'll update my post accordingly.

And in general to be avoided on any axis on any other DCS bird (maybe Gazelle can also be tweaked a bit that way, I rarely go max deflection with her either)

[DD_Fenrir]

Pitch sensitivity, reasons for and solutions explained here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260949

[jorgesoo]

I was referring to yaw tendency while applying aileron.

 

 

No yaw tendency, as far as rudder is aplied correctly-

The problem in my case is the woobly or spongy controls response when at real mode.

May be my stick (TM Cougar) is prone to that, but it doesnt happens with other sims, and doesnt happens also when flying in game mode

[grafspee]

No yaw tendency, as far as rudder is aplied correctly-

The problem in my case is the woobly or spongy controls response when at real mode.

May be my stick (TM Cougar) is prone to that, but it doesnt happens with other sims, and doesnt happens also when flying in game mode

 

Looks like other "sims" has only game mode then.

[jorgesoo]

Looks like other "sims" has only game mode then.

 

 

I never experienced at real life flying that spongy or pendulum control efects I notice at DCS real mode.

Of course I never flew a Spit, but there should be not a great diference with other one seat, low winged monoplanes

,

[grafspee]

I never experienced at real life flying that spongy or pendulum control efects I notice at DCS real mode.

Of course I never flew a Spit, but there should be not a great diference with other one seat, low winged monoplanes

,

 

I would not be so sure of that.I think that owner if this company, had opportunity of flying those things, i think it would be corrected if it was wrong.

I like that, every plane feels different in DCS. At least it gives feeling that non of it is just copy pasted and slight tweaked, like in other sims.

For example, when you fill rear tank in P-51, its just different plane for me, even if this is exactly the same plane.

I think we here purely hardware problem with no axis behavior adjustment. In DCS you can move your controls way beyond human speed, there is no artificial dampeners for this in DCS.

We have now free month, jump in K-4 D-9 A-8, P-51 and compare those. Look how different designs are and how different they fly.

That is my theory,

When someone complain about FM, or what ever, and ED has solid proof for this, ED respons with quick head shooting explanation,

But when ED is not sure, or they know that something is not working exactly as real thing, often they stay quiet, or when you are bringing issue over and over, ED often response with explanation that they are aware but it require tons of work hours that for now it is posponed.

Edited April 22, 2020 by grafspee

[Whisper]

Looks like other "sims" has only game mode then.

 

If we could avoid downplaying other products all the time, that would GREATLY help the discussions, tbh. We (and that includes you) simply do not know, so these kind of jumping to conclusions is useless and does not help anyone. It's just annoying.

[grafspee]

If we could avoid downplaying other products all the time, that would GREATLY help the discussions, tbh. We (and that includes you) simply do not know, so these kind of jumping to conclusions is useless and does not help anyone. It's just annoying.

 

I didn't brought other's products first in this discussion. And i will do downplay them every time i get a chance.

If we could avoid bringing other games in to discussion would less annoying too.

Edited April 23, 2020 by grafspee

[Cintra]

I am using a Thrustmaster Cougar at my sims (Falcon 4 and Condor2)

Now I am using DCS as I like WW2 Warbirds. The problem is that the elevator trim doesnt work as should do, in spite of trimming nose down at the full limit, all my aircrafts, (P51, FW190 and Spitfire), continue raising slightly the nose.

It is not highly noticiable, but at a long flight is very unconfortable, as you have to exert down pressure constantly.

I have no problems with the other sims y mentioned, and the stick is perfecly centered as can be seen in the Cougar Calibration App.

I mapped the elevator and rudder trim to my joystick hat.

Also I noticed that when in real mode, there is no problem, it only happens at game mode

Any opinión will be welcome

Thanks

 

I have JUST fixed this issue, the nose just constantly pulled up with full nose down trim.

 

I turned off the force-feed back in DCS and just for good measure, reset my joystick to defaults in control panel and re-calibrated it.

 

I hope this helps you.